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Whats happening @ NASA
Wamunyota
#21 Posted : Friday, October 09, 2015 11:26:23 AM
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Joined: 6/23/2014
Posts: 1,652
¿
#22 Posted : Friday, October 09, 2015 11:34:29 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/4/2015
Posts: 604
masukuma wrote:
¿ wrote:
masukuma wrote:
¿ wrote:
masukuma wrote:

pluto is a bit too cold bwana unless it has europa like behaviors. It should be -248 (last time i checked)


We don't know the origin of life,the conditions necessary for life or how radically different the life forms(if any) may be. The universe is a big place.

agreed! we don't even have a complete definition on what "life" is. think about it - the universe does not have 1 of anything. We have multiple planets, multiple solar systems, we have multiple of X and even the string theorists believe we have multiple universes - so it follows that we should (ideally) have 1 single exhibition of life. My theory has always been - we know only one type of life. A carbon based life possible made possible by liquid water thriving on the goldilocks zone of our solar system. What is life really? rather than the most complex manifestation of chemistry. If there could be some form of complex replicating molecule similar to DNA/RNA made primarily out of nitrogen (instead of carbon) that would thrive in seas of liquid nitrogen - why not consider that 'life'? But I guess then we could have life on mercury - right... made out of liquid zinc or lead! or even some other thing surviving in the green house gas affected planet that is venus. So... yeah - you are right... there could be "life" but not our type of "life"


I agree. There could be beings of pure energy.

That's a stretch but energy and matter are 2 sides of the same coin. So yeah... I guess.


The universe is a big place.
masukuma
#23 Posted : Friday, October 09, 2015 12:39:19 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
¿ wrote:

The universe is a big place.

Not in this universe - maybe in another one. The physics that we know about and the laws that hold it together would not apply. why? we have 6 versions of quarks, gluons, electrons, muons, tau particles, have leptons (electron neutrinos, muon neutrinos, tau neutrinos) all made of energy and last of all have photons made of mass. have the higgs boson equivalent as well - when done creating what is know as the standard model of particle physics by swapping matter for energy and energy for matter. So in that universe Mass would be moving at speeds of C and energy would not! In A universe where the fabric of time and space is wrapped by energy and not mass - THAT IS NOT THIS UNIVERSE! a universe that whatever we call the photon equivalent made all of mass has no concept of time. When done with that we would then create 'atoms' equivalent from these particles and later a whole periodic table equivalent. then create interactions between these 'atoms' and create molecules and extrapolate that forward into complex molecules that replicate themselves AND THEN have complex interactions between these items and when done - we would have beings of light.... if that's too complex... I suggest we stick to holograms.
Or maybe I am wrong and I am doing what humans do best - extrapolate their experiences into other dimensions and universes we know nothing about. kinda reminds me of Christiaan Huygens and his 'celestial worlds discovered' publication who using deductive reasoning concluded that Jupiter had hemp! How... he looked at the planet and it had an atmosphere and what looked like oceans. he figured we live in a world with oceans and atmospheres. a creature on Jupiter would need to get around just like us and we have boats - so they must have boats. We have sails on our boats and thus they must have sails as well. It follows taht this sails must be made out of a raw material and ours is hemp... he reckoned that creatures of jupiter must grow hemp to faciliate their moving around.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
¿
#24 Posted : Friday, October 09, 2015 1:17:39 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/4/2015
Posts: 604
masukuma wrote:
¿ wrote:

The universe is a big place.

Not in this universe - maybe in another one. The physics that we know about and the laws that hold it together would not apply. why? we have 6 versions of quarks, gluons, electrons, muons, tau particles, have leptons (electron neutrinos, muon neutrinos, tau neutrinos) all made of energy and last of all have photons made of mass. have the higgs boson equivalent as well - when done creating what is know as the standard model of particle physics by swapping matter for energy and energy for matter. So in that universe Mass would be moving at speeds of C and energy would not! In A universe where the fabric of time and space is wrapped by energy and not mass - THAT IS NOT THIS UNIVERSE! a universe that whatever we call the photon equivalent made all of mass has no concept of time. When done with that we would then create 'atoms' equivalent from these particles and later a whole periodic table equivalent. then create interactions between these 'atoms' and create molecules and extrapolate that forward into complex molecules that replicate themselves AND THEN have complex interactions between these items and when done - we would have beings of light.... if that's too complex... I suggest we stick to holograms.
Or maybe I am wrong and I am doing what humans do best - extrapolate their experiences into other dimensions and universes we know nothing about. kinda reminds me of Christiaan Huygens and his 'celestial worlds discovered' publication who using deductive reasoning concluded that Jupiter had hemp! How... he looked at the planet and it had an atmosphere and what looked like oceans. he figured we live in a world with oceans and atmospheres. a creature on Jupiter would need to get around just like us and we have boats - so they must have boats. We have sails on our boats and thus they must have sails as well. It follows taht this sails must be made out of a raw material and ours is hemp... he reckoned that creatures of jupiter must grow hemp to faciliate their moving around.


Scientists know energy is a 'thing' or phenomenon but they don't know what it is. It is relevant in discussing the possibility of energy beings in this universe.
tycho
#25 Posted : Friday, October 09, 2015 1:33:53 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
¿ wrote:

The universe is a big place.

Not in this universe - maybe in another one. The physics that we know about and the laws that hold it together would not apply. why? we have 6 versions of quarks, gluons, electrons, muons, tau particles, have leptons (electron neutrinos, muon neutrinos, tau neutrinos) all made of energy and last of all have photons made of mass. have the higgs boson equivalent as well - when done creating what is know as the standard model of particle physics by swapping matter for energy and energy for matter. So in that universe Mass would be moving at speeds of C and energy would not! In A universe where the fabric of time and space is wrapped by energy and not mass - THAT IS NOT THIS UNIVERSE! a universe that whatever we call the photon equivalent made all of mass has no concept of time. When done with that we would then create 'atoms' equivalent from these particles and later a whole periodic table equivalent. then create interactions between these 'atoms' and create molecules and extrapolate that forward into complex molecules that replicate themselves AND THEN have complex interactions between these items and when done - we would have beings of light.... if that's too complex... I suggest we stick to holograms.
Or maybe I am wrong and I am doing what humans do best - extrapolate their experiences into other dimensions and universes we know nothing about. kinda reminds me of Christiaan Huygens and his 'celestial worlds discovered' publication who using deductive reasoning concluded that Jupiter had hemp! How... he looked at the planet and it had an atmosphere and what looked like oceans. he figured we live in a world with oceans and atmospheres. a creature on Jupiter would need to get around just like us and we have boats - so they must have boats. We have sails on our boats and thus they must have sails as well. It follows taht this sails must be made out of a raw material and ours is hemp... he reckoned that creatures of jupiter must grow hemp to faciliate their moving around.


@masukuma, kindly restate your argument in formal logic so that I may understand the gist of your argument.
masukuma
#26 Posted : Friday, October 09, 2015 1:49:48 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
¿ wrote:
[quote=masukuma]
Scientists know energy is a 'thing' or phenomenon but they don't know what it is. It is relevant in discussing the possibility of energy beings in this universe.

there are known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns! the construct of space and time is a known known. just because we don't understand all aspects of energy does not imply that don't understand everything about energy - ok? what is known is that in this universe we have mass doing all the wrapping of space and thus any kind of being would ideally need to be matter based. I don't think we can have energy beings in this universe not as we understand energy and not as we understand the universe.

@tycho - it was just a long winding mumbling text trying to reconstruct a universe with beings of energy instead of mass. we would ideally have to have the mass as we know it replaced by energy and behaving in exactly the same way mass behaves in this universe. mass in that universe would ideally need to behave in the same way energy behaves in our universe. That universe would have black holes of really compact energy - that would stop mass from escaping.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
¿
#27 Posted : Friday, October 09, 2015 2:18:03 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/4/2015
Posts: 604
masukuma wrote:
¿ wrote:
[quote=masukuma]
Scientists know energy is a 'thing' or phenomenon but they don't know what it is. It is relevant in discussing the possibility of energy beings in this universe.

there are known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns! the construct of space and time is a known known. just because we don't understand all aspects of energy does not imply that don't understand everything about energy - ok? what is known is that in this universe we have mass doing all the wrapping of space and thus any kind of being would ideally need to be matter based. I don't think we can have energy beings in this universe not as we understand energy and not as we understand the universe.


@tycho - it was just a long winding mumbling text trying to reconstruct a universe with beings of energy instead of mass. we would ideally have to have the mass as we know it replaced by energy and behaving in exactly the same way mass behaves in this universe. mass in that universe would ideally need to behave in the same way energy behaves in our universe. That universe would have black holes of really compact energy - that would stop mass from escaping.


The Standard model of cosmology claims that ordinary matter(the stuff we're made of) is 4.9% of the universe,dark matter is 26.8% of the universe and dark energy is 68.3% of the universe.

We don't know what energy is and we don't know how life came about. How is that reshaping the universe?It's a known known that we know very little about the universe.Laughing out loudly
masukuma
#28 Posted : Friday, October 09, 2015 2:40:23 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
¿ wrote:
masukuma wrote:
¿ wrote:
[quote=masukuma]
Scientists know energy is a 'thing' or phenomenon but they don't know what it is. It is relevant in discussing the possibility of energy beings in this universe.

there are known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns! the construct of space and time is a known known. just because we don't understand all aspects of energy does not imply that don't understand everything about energy - ok? what is known is that in this universe we have mass doing all the wrapping of space and thus any kind of being would ideally need to be matter based. I don't think we can have energy beings in this universe not as we understand energy and not as we understand the universe.


@tycho - it was just a long winding mumbling text trying to reconstruct a universe with beings of energy instead of mass. we would ideally have to have the mass as we know it replaced by energy and behaving in exactly the same way mass behaves in this universe. mass in that universe would ideally need to behave in the same way energy behaves in our universe. That universe would have black holes of really compact energy - that would stop mass from escaping.


The Standard model of cosmology claims that ordinary matter(the stuff we're made of) is 4.9% of the universe,dark matter is 26.8% of the universe and dark energy is 68.3% of the universe.

We don't know what energy is and we don't know how life came about. How is that reshaping the universe?It's a known known that we know very little about the universe.Laughing out loudly

you need to understand something about the 'dark' energy/matter henceforth referred to as 'dark blah'....! ok... they exhibit the same properties as the 'light' blahs except that they don't reflect light - so we can tell they are there by their effects on the 'light' blahs but not by seeing them. Kinda like when you are overtaking based on a car that is overtaking before you. You see how the car is behaving and you act it's not that u have seen the road or the incoming or lack there of of a vehicle. Please remember that 'dark' is a placeholder. We know something about them - it's only that we cannot 'see' them.

string theorists also have something more to say about them - they could be effects of other universes on ours - kinda like what they think blackholes would be.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
masukuma
#29 Posted : Friday, October 09, 2015 2:47:06 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
but it's true we know very little about our universe.... we have less than 500 years of proper scientific observations and models on the same - but that is somehow not to be misconstrued to mean that there are 'energy beings' - we know better than that!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
¿
#30 Posted : Friday, October 09, 2015 2:50:55 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/4/2015
Posts: 604
masukuma wrote:

you need to understand something about the 'dark' energy/matter henceforth referred to as 'dark blah'....! ok... they exhibit the same properties as the 'light' blahs except that they don't reflect light - so we can tell they are there by their effects on the 'light' blahs but not by seeing them. Kinda like when you are overtaking based on a car that is overtaking before you. You see how the car is behaving and you act it's not that u have seen the road or the incoming or lack there of of a vehicle. Please remember that 'dark' is a placeholder. We know something about them - it's only that we cannot 'see' them.


Dark Energy, Dark Matter

NASA wrote:

What Is Dark Energy?

More is unknown than is known. We know how much dark energy there is because we know how it affects the Universe's expansion. Other than that, it is a complete mystery. But it is an important mystery.

...

What Is Dark Matter?

We are much more certain what dark matter is not than we are what it is.

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