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Wazua's 13 point Demands for Raila
2012
#21 Posted : Thursday, July 10, 2014 2:40:38 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
Babu, When people lose election they do not go demanding for dialogue with the winners to force advice down their throats on how to govern. They wait for the winners to make mistakes so they can capitalize on in the next election.

BBI will solve it
:)
hindi ni riu
#22 Posted : Thursday, July 10, 2014 5:07:13 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/2/2010
Posts: 305
Dear Babu. You often criticize a lot, sometimes for good reason and sometimes just hogwash. For us to be clear, since you want to be at the helm, what I would ask of you is to put yourself as the SI unit since you have been in leadership for like forever. For each point you raise, tell us what you have done so far (not how you will do it in future) vis-s-vis how its being done, and we can do a comparison. That way, I can gain some confidence in you. If you have not done much in 20+ years you have been in power, am not convinced that the presidency is the magic ward for you.

“Once the last tree is cut and the last river poisoned,you will find you cannot eat your money" Traditional saying.
MatataMingi
#23 Posted : Thursday, July 10, 2014 5:37:38 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/17/2009
Posts: 399
Location: Where everyone knows you
Dearest Baba, I agree that the cost of living is very high. You have threatened that you will ask your people to boycott products from companies that don't sell at reasonable prices.

One of my major expense is cooking gas.

I understand that you own a major company supplying gas.

Can you set an example by slashing the prices.

Thank you Bamba
YoungMulla
#24 Posted : Thursday, July 10, 2014 5:52:17 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/14/2012
Posts: 577
Location: Nairobi Kenya
Good stuff, sober questions and valid pointsApplause
Before I die - i will touch the sky!!
butterflyke
#25 Posted : Monday, July 21, 2014 3:08:05 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/1/2010
Posts: 3,024
Location: Hapa
C&P from RINK:

Second, Cord needs to narrow down its aims. Many of the issues listed in its thirteen point agenda are important, but I’d bet that even devoted Cord activists can’t remember all of them. The most effective issue Odinga has at his disposal is devolution.

This is a clear example of an area in which the government is attempting to re-centralise control in contravention of the spirit of the constitution. It also makes for very good politics: Odinga needs to attract county leaders to his side, and stem the steady trickle of local leaders to the ranks of Jubilee.

A campaign to ensure that 40 per cent of government revenue flows to counties would win the backing of Governors, who have consistently claimed that central government is denying them the resources they need to do their jobs.

To their credit, Cord leaders have realised this and seem to be moving in this direction. However, there is also a danger here. Many counties are not spending their resources effectively, and increasing the share of revenues that are devolved to them is unlikely to improve the quality of public services – at least in the short term.

So any move to hold a referendum on protecting/extending devolution would need to go hand in hand with a strong focus on ensuring that Cord-friendly counties perform better and start to deliver on their promises.
Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. - Muhammad Ali🐝
limanika
#26 Posted : Monday, July 21, 2014 3:49:07 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
butterflyke wrote:
C&P from RINK:

Second, Cord needs to narrow down its aims. Many of the issues listed in its thirteen point agenda are important, but I’d bet that even devoted Cord activists can’t remember all of them. The most effective issue Odinga has at his disposal is devolution.

This is a clear example of an area in which the government is attempting to re-centralise control in contravention of the spirit of the constitution. It also makes for very good politics: Odinga needs to attract county leaders to his side, and stem the steady trickle of local leaders to the ranks of Jubilee.

A campaign to ensure that 40 per cent of government revenue flows to counties would win the backing of Governors, who have consistently claimed that central government is denying them the resources they need to do their jobs.

To their credit, Cord leaders have realised this and seem to be moving in this direction. However, there is also a danger here. Many counties are not spending their resources effectively, and increasing the share of revenues that are devolved to them is unlikely to improve the quality of public services – at least in the short term.

So any move to hold a referendum on protecting/extending devolution would need to go hand in hand with a strong focus on ensuring that Cord-friendly counties perform better and start to deliver on their promises.

You cannot just dictate to National government that they allocate 40% to counties through a referendum, yet you have not checked with national govt if this will be detrimental to its operations and lead to inability by national treasury to meet their other obligations. Clause 189 of the constitution provides mechanism on how the two levels of government should engage each other/negotiate referendum is not one of them.
limanika
#27 Posted : Monday, July 21, 2014 5:13:31 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
limanika wrote:
butterflyke wrote:
C&P from RINK:

Second, Cord needs to narrow down its aims. Many of the issues listed in its thirteen point agenda are important, but I’d bet that even devoted Cord activists can’t remember all of them. The most effective issue Odinga has at his disposal is devolution.

This is a clear example of an area in which the government is attempting to re-centralise control in contravention of the spirit of the constitution. It also makes for very good politics: Odinga needs to attract county leaders to his side, and stem the steady trickle of local leaders to the ranks of Jubilee.

A campaign to ensure that 40 per cent of government revenue flows to counties would win the backing of Governors, who have consistently claimed that central government is denying them the resources they need to do their jobs.

To their credit, Cord leaders have realised this and seem to be moving in this direction. However, there is also a danger here. Many counties are not spending their resources effectively, and increasing the share of revenues that are devolved to them is unlikely to improve the quality of public services – at least in the short term.

So any move to hold a referendum on protecting/extending devolution would need to go hand in hand with a strong focus on ensuring that Cord-friendly counties perform better and start to deliver on their promises.

You cannot just dictate to National government that they allocate 40% to counties through a referendum, yet you have not checked with national govt if this will be detrimental to its operations and lead to inability by national treasury to meet their other obligations. Clause 189 of the constitution provides mechanism on how the two levels of government should engage each other/negotiate referendum is not one of them.

The other proposal that would seem reasonable to layman is the proposal to change from presidential to parliamentary system. However if you look critically, this would amount to major change or overhaul of the constitution, not amendment, which by definition is merely ‘a minor change or addition designed to improve a text, piece of legislation’.

Change of system of government as proposed would result in total overhaul of chapters 8 & 9, and total restructuring of two arms of government – legislature and executive. Such change can only be logically necessitated by catastrophic failure of current structure (which has not happened), followed by structured public consultations on the next course of action, of which parliamentary system may not necessarily arise as the logical alternative.

In case of overhaul of the current constitution, a legal framework would have to be developed by parliament on how to undertake the process, with all inclusive country wide public debate and consultation. Indeed there is a precedent – there was an act of parliament created to guide the process of reviewing and overhauling the previous constitution. I don’t see any justification for referendum, maybe it’s because am not a lawyer.

butterflyke
#28 Posted : Monday, July 21, 2014 5:22:31 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/1/2010
Posts: 3,024
Location: Hapa
limanika wrote:
limanika wrote:
butterflyke wrote:
C&P from RINK:

Second, Cord needs to narrow down its aims. Many of the issues listed in its thirteen point agenda are important, but I’d bet that even devoted Cord activists can’t remember all of them. The most effective issue Odinga has at his disposal is devolution.

This is a clear example of an area in which the government is attempting to re-centralise control in contravention of the spirit of the constitution. It also makes for very good politics: Odinga needs to attract county leaders to his side, and stem the steady trickle of local leaders to the ranks of Jubilee.

A campaign to ensure that 40 per cent of government revenue flows to counties would win the backing of Governors, who have consistently claimed that central government is denying them the resources they need to do their jobs.

To their credit, Cord leaders have realised this and seem to be moving in this direction. However, there is also a danger here. Many counties are not spending their resources effectively, and increasing the share of revenues that are devolved to them is unlikely to improve the quality of public services – at least in the short term.

So any move to hold a referendum on protecting/extending devolution would need to go hand in hand with a strong focus on ensuring that Cord-friendly counties perform better and start to deliver on their promises.

You cannot just dictate to National government that they allocate 40% to counties through a referendum, yet you have not checked with national govt if this will be detrimental to its operations and lead to inability by national treasury to meet their other obligations. Clause 189 of the constitution provides mechanism on how the two levels of government should engage each other/negotiate referendum is not one of them.

The other proposal that would seem reasonable to layman is the proposal to change from presidential to parliamentary system. However if you look critically, this would amount to major change or overhaul of the constitution, not amendment, which by definition is merely ‘a minor change or addition designed to improve a text, piece of legislation’.

Change of system of government as proposed would result in total overhaul of chapters 8 & 9, and total restructuring of two arms of government – legislature and executive. Such change can only be logically necessitated by catastrophic failure of current structure (which has not happened), followed by structured public consultations on the next course of action, of which parliamentary system may not necessarily arise as the logical alternative.

In case of overhaul of the current constitution, a legal framework would have to be developed by parliament on how to undertake the process, with all inclusive country wide public debate and consultation. Indeed there is a precedent – there was an act of parliament created to guide the process of reviewing and overhauling the previous constitution. I don’t see any justification for referendum, maybe it’s because am not a lawyer.



i also do not see salient justification for referendum. i agree with the point being made that the opposition needs to focus on one or two 'deliverables' for the people of Kenya and this will require calling for change in practice not only by the government but also by the 'opposition-friendly' counties.
Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. - Muhammad Ali🐝
McReggae
#29 Posted : Monday, July 21, 2014 5:44:55 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Mbona waogopoa referendum, a constituntional and legal means of getting the change you need, wait for the referendum questions folks!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
limanika
#30 Posted : Monday, July 21, 2014 5:59:20 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
McReggae wrote:
Mbona waogopoa referendum, a constituntional and legal means of getting the change you need, wait for the referendum questions folks!!!

Nobody fears this, only concern is the wastage of time, money and bandwidth this whole matter is or will end up wasting. However, let the debate continue if they cannot hear voices of reason. M01 will have good company very shortly, ask him what happened when he turned deaf ear to more sober views w.r.t the ‘project’. If cord has nothing to do in parliament, they could focus on improving lives in 24 counties with what they have, this would be a more effective strategy to win our hearts and minds.
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