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CBK's CBR shocker @ 16.5% - Playing Serious Hard Ball?!
sparkly
#41 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 6:26:22 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
@hisah and all, how accessible are interest hedging products to an individual in kenya?
Life is short. Live passionately.
erifloss
#42 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 8:11:38 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/21/2010
Posts: 514
Location: Nairobi
@Sparkly,
1. Don't touch any mortgage loan as of now.
2. Net borrowing banks will bleed as opposed to the net lenders(for some net lenders, it might also be worse due to NPLs) Most will go for short term govt paper and corporate lending.
3. In Kenya, i think we don't have any swap facilities that might be available in the public domain. Though the best way out is to refinance your bank loan using a sacco loan.
'They say money cannot buy me happiness but when i compare when i had none and now, i'm happier' Kevin O'leary
Insurgent
#43 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 8:40:38 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/6/2010
Posts: 594
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
Anyhu...a lot of Wazuans and spectators bayed for blood..sasa imeletwa na tanker Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly #be careful what U wish for smile


The blood now on the streets sounds like mine and yours. Where do we run to?


"One man gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty. A generous man will prosper; he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed." Rev Canon Karanja.

mwekez@ji
#44 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 8:42:09 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
holycow wrote:
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
Anyhu...a lot of Wazuans and spectators bayed for blood..sasa imeletwa na tanker Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly #be careful what U wish for smile

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly smile

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Renegade
#45 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 8:50:34 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/18/2009
Posts: 118
Pray Pray Pray WooooooooooiiiiiiiiiiiiPray Pray Pray Pray

Insurgent
#46 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 8:50:49 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/6/2010
Posts: 594
In a fiat money system, money is not backed by a physical commodity (i.e.: gold). Instead, the only thing that gives the money value is its relative scarcity and the faith placed in it by the people that use it. A good primer on the history of fiat money in the US can be found in a video provided by the Mises.org website.

In a fiat monetary system, there is no restrain on the amount of money that can be created. This allows unlimited credit creation. Initially, a rapid growth in the availability of credit is often mistaken for economic growth, as spending and business profits grow and frequently there is a rapid growth in equity prices. In the long run, however, the economy tends to suffer much more by the following contraction than it gained from the expansion in credit. This expansion in credit can be seen in the Debt/GDP ratio. http://kwaves.com/fiat.htm


"One man gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty. A generous man will prosper; he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed." Rev Canon Karanja.

Magnetic Touch
#47 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 8:56:46 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/31/2008
Posts: 90
Expect a big drop in credit growth.

I for one would not touch a credit product with a long stick (10 foot pole).

Too bad for those who are already in hock.

Inflation is finally being seriously addressed, with very painful treatment. I hope the shock will not kill the patient.
bwenyenye
#48 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 9:37:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
WOw! The prof must be on a roll... I do not think the banks will push up outstanding loans from 15 to 25%. That will mean definite default and the attachment of their capital and profits. They will shrink. Yes, there will be big slowdown in lending. Banks will need to find other sources of income... ledger fees, account maintenance fees, reduction of costs (this may mean another round of layoffs)... This is bad. It is not a time to invest in a luxury items business... just keep to food, shelter and clothing. We got to stop borrowing to buy cars, and to go for holidays! Sasa ni kkulipa rent ( mortgage), kula, kusomesha, period.
I Think Therefore I Am
FUNKY
#49 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 9:38:15 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/30/2010
Posts: 1,635
guru267
#50 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 9:47:44 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
FUNKY wrote:
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Opinion+++Analysis/Voodoo+economics+can+prevent+stagflation+/-/539548/1265864/-/m2gk6f/-/


This article is spot on..

The Gok should deal with the supply issues in the economy rather than trying to destroy demand with high rates..

It is not a demand problem.. its a supply problem..

Even a first year Bcom student can know that... & yet mr phd continues to fail his country
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
'user'
#51 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 9:55:46 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/3/2010
Posts: 1,141
Location: Londokwe
guru267 wrote:
FUNKY wrote:
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Opinion+++Analysis/Voodoo+economics+can+prevent+stagflation+/-/539548/1265864/-/m2gk6f/-/


This article is spot on..

The Gok should deal with the supply issues in the economy rather than trying to destroy demand with high rates..

It is not a demand problem.. its a supply problem..

Even a first year Bcom student can know that... & yet mr phd continues to fail his country

Infact this is no longer prof ndungus issue.let the govt deal with supply issues.harvest rain water,provide seeds & fertilsers to farmers,promote horticulture and tourism build more value adding agri factories ,increasee import tariffs etc.
I wonder what the intention of ndungu was in increasing the rate.
2012 is here.Kenya is Ours.Be Part of The Peace Keeping Mission To Protect Our Motherland.Say No To Violence and Tribal Hatred .If you can read this,wewe ni mtu amesoma, usifikirie kama mtu hajaenda shule .Ni Hayo Tu
the deal
#52 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 10:25:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
FUNKY wrote:
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Opinion+++Analysis/Voodoo+economics+can+prevent+stagflation+/-/539548/1265864/-/m2gk6f/-/

Nothing but garbage from Business Daily....ask @mainat he will tell you what type of inflation we have here...also try googling MV=PT...Stimulus/Quantitative easing...Balance of payments and link the two to currency depreciation..also google Mr Vockler...stagflation is different from an economic slow down/recession...Studying the U.S and Zimbabwe will also help.
Iborian
#53 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 10:38:04 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 194
This is a bold move that some of us called for way back.

Inflation has been spiralling way beyond what the citizenry could take and it was only a matter of time before folks took to the street - the pain was getting way too much.

While CBK action canot have much action on the supply side, it had to do what it can to rein in credit growth/money supply. Besides, if this action can lower the exchange rate, this will have an impact on the imported inflation - especially that induced by the increasing price of oil in KSh terms even when it fell in USD terms.

There is of course a tradeoff - Rising costs of borrowing and possibly reduced economic growth but these are lesser evils.
Sufficiently Philanga....thropic
#54 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 10:46:17 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2010
Posts: 2,220
Location: Sundowner,Amboseli
I think the Govy has done alot as far as fiscal policy is concerned, to compliment our prof at the onetary policy wing.
The big problem with KE at the moment is the unfavourable bop,the widening current account deficit.
Can u imagine just last year, we only exported a paltry KES400B yet had the audacity to import KES 900B.
This is where we need to start!
@SufficientlyP
the deal
#55 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 10:48:32 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
Lets debate Keynes and Friedman...then discussions on Wazua would have evolved!
selah
#56 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 10:56:59 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/13/2009
Posts: 1,950
Location: in kenya
guru267 wrote:

The Gok should deal with the supply issues in the economy rather than trying to destroy demand with high rates..

It is not a demand problem.. its a supply problem..

Even a first year Bcom student can know that... & yet mr phd continues to fail his country


I actually agree with you what the govt is doing will create one hell of a recession that might create an uprising.

The economy is decelerating, now couple that with increased rates how does the govt intend to stimulate the economy if getting the money to expand businesses is getting so damn expensive.

I have a guy who used to pay 200K a month in loan installments he runs a tourist spot..now he confided in me the installments have shot up to 350k a month now he doesnt know what will happen once the bank adjust in view of the current CBR hike.

With the alshabab war in progress this guy is screwed since tourist numbers might be affected due to travel advisories being issued.

The governor is punishing the whole country for mistakes of the treasury now imagine duty free import of maize has been extended even though we are harvesting.Treasury should come up with a tax regime that discourage importation of non essential items that can be manufactured locally another thing is negotiating for better oil prices with producers to curb imported inflation.


'......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
guru267
#57 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 11:03:45 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:

Nothing but garbage from Business Daily....ask @mainat he will tell you what type of inflation we have here...also try googling MV=PT...Stimulus/Quantitative easing...stagflation is different from an economic slow down/recession...Studying the U.S and Zimbabwe will also help.


@the deal you interest me..
You really think kenyas inflation is being mostly driven by quantitative easing.!? really??

and by the way noone has talked about a recession..

stagflation is a period of declining growth and rising inflation.. It will happen in kenya because the CBK has destroyed the investments horizon with interest rates hitting 25% soon and this will result into high unemployment as no one will hire and everyone will definitely be firing.. At the same time food & fuel prices will continue upwards because the drought wont stop causing inflation to be high..

high inflation + high unemployment = stagflation

stagflation is said to be worse than inflation and defaltion..







Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
guru267
#58 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 11:05:53 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:
Lets debate Keynes and Friedman...then discussions on Wazua would have evolved!


Any student of economics would know that these mens theories only hold in DEVELOPED ECONOMIES..
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Thiong'o
#59 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 11:05:56 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/14/2011
Posts: 661
@ User, I too think that govt should aim to spur growth in the productive sectors of the economy eg agricultural, Small and Medium Enterprise Sector etc. These are the sectors that generate continuous flows and support capital investments. The interest rate should be a stop gap (short term) measure.

This link attached elsewhere has some useful info.
http://www.capitalfm.co....kenya-facing-recession/
Iborian
#60 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 11:14:42 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 194
Who wants to take a bet on this:

Inflation will start declining as early as December 2011 and will reduce to a single digit by December 2012.

I know many of you will claim that it will happen because of factors other than CBK's actions, but methinks it will because of a combination of monetary and fiscal policy as well as Acts of God.

Of course, I accept politics could mess up my scenario above, but I am willing to place the bet, the risk notwithstanding.
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