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bonds investments
Scooby
#21 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2011 1:17:08 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/2/2006
Posts: 121
Hunderwear wrote:
maka wrote:
@ amolo which 30 year are you talking about the re-opening?and what happens when you re disount at such a time when rates are way up e.g the 30 year is currently trading at around 15.5%

pardon my ignorance but does it mean that if I buy the 30yr bond worth 100k I get 15500 every year?


Hunderwear,

In your scenario, there are two things to consider. Firstly, there is a straight 12% gross interest that you will be entitled to each year. That amount will fall to 10.8% after tax.

Secondly, since you bought the bond at a discount (i.e. less than face value), the value of your bond will gradually increase over time till it reaches face value on maturity. That's a form of "capital gain" should you decide to hold it to maturity.

You could then say that the 15.5% is then made up of the 12% interest and remainder as a capital gain.

As regards your question of when is the opportune time to buy the 30 year bond, I would advise that you hold out for a while till the movements in the yields kinda stabilise. Had you bought it at 16.3% yield, you would have lost 2.5% as of yesterday (i.e. Thursday). The yield on this month's auction for that bond was 18.8%.

Hope this helps


maka
#22 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2011 10:36:23 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
Mach G wrote:
Yes - 15500 per year @15.5% interest but after taxes at 10% you get 13950 and since there will be two semi annual interest pmts you get 6975 every six months for 30 years

Even when the yields go up to 18% like in the case of the current year you will only get what the coupon offer i.e 12% for the said 30 year then you deduct the withholding tax...You dont get 15500 but 12000 kshs then you deduct the withholding tax...the 18% is the current market yield i.e the rate its trading at in the secondary market
possunt quia posse videntur
maka
#23 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2011 10:37:54 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
mauryc wrote:
how difficult is it to sell on the secondary market?i've heard of guys lamenting that they are unable sell..is there adequate demand?

Pretty difficult any amount less than 100 mio is considered as an odd lot.Banks usually trade in lots of 100 mio and above...
possunt quia posse videntur
kizee1
#24 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2011 4:00:39 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/29/2010
Posts: 679
Location: nairobi
a few years back we had an argument about the need for kenyan FI OTC market, many wazuans had issues with this now if indeed an OTC market (akin to say the FX mkt) no such thing as an odd lot wud exist and liquidity wud have been better..
Hunderwear
#25 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2011 8:26:06 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/14/2011
Posts: 639
maka wrote:
Mach G wrote:
Yes - 15500 per year @15.5% interest but after taxes at 10% you get 13950 and since there will be two semi annual interest pmts you get 6975 every six months for 30 years

Even when the yields go up to 18% like in the case of the current year you will only get what the coupon offer i.e 12% for the said 30 year then you deduct the withholding tax...You dont get 15500 but 12000 kshs then you deduct the withholding tax...the 18% is the current market yield i.e the rate its trading at in the secondary market

I reckon that I get 12000ksh. on getting the bond at the current market value(around 67) and not 100(par value).Is this the case?
maka
#26 Posted : Monday, August 29, 2011 12:15:36 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
kizee1 wrote:
a few years back we had an argument about the need for kenyan FI OTC market, many wazuans had issues with this now if indeed an OTC market (akin to say the FX mkt) no such thing as an odd lot wud exist and liquidity wud have been better..

Kizee 1 I agree during this years budget reading UK asked the CMA to expedit the process of forming some sort of hybrid bond market.So far it hasnt gone well with brokers who are making a killing out of trading.
possunt quia posse videntur
maka
#27 Posted : Monday, August 29, 2011 12:17:06 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
Hunderwear wrote:
maka wrote:
Mach G wrote:
Yes - 15500 per year @15.5% interest but after taxes at 10% you get 13950 and since there will be two semi annual interest pmts you get 6975 every six months for 30 years

Even when the yields go up to 18% like in the case of the current year you will only get what the coupon offer i.e 12% for the said 30 year then you deduct the withholding tax...You dont get 15500 but 12000 kshs then you deduct the withholding tax...the 18% is the current market yield i.e the rate its trading at in the secondary market

I reckon that I get 12000ksh. on getting the bond at the current market value(around 67) and not 100(par value).Is this the case?

Yes but remember you would have bought the share at a disount,way cheaper...for every 100 you pay 67
possunt quia posse videntur
Hunderwear
#28 Posted : Monday, August 29, 2011 1:10:02 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/14/2011
Posts: 639
maka wrote:
Hunderwear wrote:
maka wrote:
Mach G wrote:
Yes - 15500 per year @15.5% interest but after taxes at 10% you get 13950 and since there will be two semi annual interest pmts you get 6975 every six months for 30 years

Even when the yields go up to 18% like in the case of the current year you will only get what the coupon offer i.e 12% for the said 30 year then you deduct the withholding tax...You dont get 15500 but 12000 kshs then you deduct the withholding tax...the 18% is the current market yield i.e the rate its trading at in the secondary market

I reckon that I get 12000ksh. on getting the bond at the current market value(around 67) and not 100(par value).Is this the case?

Yes but remember you would have bought the share at a disount,way cheaper...for every 100 you pay 67

Noted.I SALUTE ALL OF YOU GUYS FOR YOUR KIND INFO.
Ali Baba
#29 Posted : Monday, August 29, 2011 3:09:01 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/29/2008
Posts: 573
Ksh100,000 is not money to be invested in bonds.If I were you;with inflation over 15%,I would buy some stocks at current prices.....or I would buy TUSKERS and forget I had it.
Hunderwear
#30 Posted : Monday, August 29, 2011 4:31:04 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/14/2011
Posts: 639
maka wrote:
Hunderwear wrote:
maka wrote:
Mach G wrote:
Yes - 15500 per year @15.5% interest but after taxes at 10% you get 13950 and since there will be two semi annual interest pmts you get 6975 every six months for 30 years

Even when the yields go up to 18% like in the case of the current year you will only get what the coupon offer i.e 12% for the said 30 year then you deduct the withholding tax...You dont get 15500 but 12000 kshs then you deduct the withholding tax...the 18% is the current market yield i.e the rate its trading at in the secondary market

I reckon that I get 12000ksh. on getting the bond at the current market value(around 67) and not 100(par value).Is this the case?

Yes but remember you would have bought the share at a disount,way cheaper...for every 100 you pay 67

@Maka I just called suntra and they tel me the 30yr bond is going for 92 for every 100.How comes you say 67?
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