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Ukabila Serikalini Kenya
MaichBlack
#21 Posted : Thursday, April 07, 2011 12:07:19 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,910
Rahatupu wrote:
IMHO, this seems to me to be diversionary of the Kibunja Commission. The percentages presented don't seem to be drawn from the right places:

1. The figures of ethnic composition should be tallied not against plain Census figures but from college, university, poly and high school graduates this would give a better indication of how the distribution against "qualification".


Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause

Kibunja's census is simplistic to say the least. I'll tell you for a fact that for some reasons unknown to me, certain communities prefer certain professions. Examples;

1) There is a certain Kenyan community that is in love with the Engineering field. They work hard, get themselves admitted into various Engineering courses and work their backs off to be the best Engineers they can be. I am sure there is a larger percentage of Engineers from this community than the percentage of the community in the Kenyan population.

2) There is a certain community that is in love with finance/accounts/economics related fields. A query of the students admitted in these courses in the Universities, CPA and CFA candidates etc. will show you that the percentage of the candidates from this community in these courses in greater than the percentage of the community in the Kenya population.

If you are hiring and are blind to the tribe - as you should be - you will automatically end up with more engineers from tribe A and more accountants/financial analysts etc. from tribe B.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
wakagori
#22 Posted : Thursday, April 07, 2011 12:12:10 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/12/2010
Posts: 201
(C&P)I don't condone discrimination but for this issue it's a matter of probability and statistics High school math. if you have 10 balls 7 Red, 2 Blue , 1 Yellow. What is the probability of getting a Red ball = 7/10 = 70%. The same applies to jobs. The bigger tribes send more applications and hence have higher success rates. Remember as much as equality is important, merit and quality should not be compromised. If the dorobo churn out 1 lawyer per year and they get 1 lawyer working at the CJ's or Ag's office, how & why else would you blame personalities? Its the govt job to improve and evenly distribute resouces like schools/colleges/universities in all counties/districts etc
MaichBlack
#23 Posted : Thursday, April 07, 2011 12:19:42 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,910
I remember sometime back after a certain recruitment - I forget which - an MP provided a list 'proving' that a very big percentage of those who were hired were from one community. Shock on him! A list of all applicants was produced which showed that the percentage of those who applied from that community was far much higher than those hired. For example while the MP was complaining that say 25% of those hired were from community A, the list of applicants showed that 40% of the applicants were from community A, meaning that all other factors being constant, there might actually have been more successful applicants from the said community than the 25% the MP was complaining about.

We have a habit of over simplifying issues. May be we just don't like thinking or it is a reflection of the quality of education some of us had.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
tajiri
#24 Posted : Thursday, April 07, 2011 12:27:27 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/28/2007
Posts: 45
Kibunjia's report may appear simplistic but that is because facts were distorted or some important facts were left out. We should look within ourselves and realise that tribalism is a big monster that needs to be sorted out. If you check parastatals or public companies where the government has influence e.g KPLC, KCB, KRA, CBK, KPC, NOCK you will realise that most staff are either Kalenjin or kikuyu. In 2002 these were full of kalenjins but now replaced by kikuyus.We may say we have 'qualified' guys, but is it fair? It is scary that the next president will also replace them with his tribe. As all these go on, many people suffer: those who loose jobs due to change of guard, those denied jobs due to tribalism and those treated as second class citizens. Try visit KRA and you will be surprised at the official language of communication, go to sheria house, go to prime minister's office. Notice that some portfolio are for 'homeboys' security, treasury, public health.
All our ministers are guilty of tribalism as they all employ their tribesmen as directors and CEOs in parastatals in their ministries. We are going to the dogs as we watch. let us not hide behind qualified big tribes.. Not all these guys have the best qualifications. Some even go to dodgy community collegesand polytechnics overseas and return as US /UK trained while they have no experience.
If Kibunjia gave a break down of specific ministries and their chief officers we will be ashamed, from DCs, chief accountants, treasury chiefs, parastal directors in each ministry.
When Kosgei had his Kinsman as a MD of KEBS, we suddenly realised it was tribalism yet when Kimunya, Ngilu, Kibaki or Annyang Nyongo does it we make no fuss.
livie
#25 Posted : Thursday, April 07, 2011 12:37:56 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/1/2008
Posts: 834
tajiri wrote:
Kibunjia's report may appear simplistic but that is because facts were distorted or some important facts were left out. We should look within ourselves and realise that tribalism is a big monster that needs to be sorted out. If you check parastatals or public companies where the government has influence e.g KPLC, KCB, KRA, CBK, KPC, NOCK you will realise that most staff are either Kalenjin or kikuyu. In 2002 these were full of kalenjins but now replaced by kikuyus.We may say we have 'qualified' guys, but is it fair? It is scary that the next president will also replace them with his tribe. As all these go on, many people suffer: those who loose jobs due to change of guard, those denied jobs due to tribalism and those treated as second class citizens. Try visit KRA and you will be surprised at the official language of communication, go to sheria house, go to prime minister's office. Notice that some portfolio are for 'homeboys' security, treasury, public health.
All our ministers are guilty of tribalism as they all employ their tribesmen as directors and CEOs in parastatals in their ministries. We are going to the dogs as we watch. let us not hide behind qualified big tribes.. Not all these guys have the best qualifications. Some even go to dodgy community collegesand polytechnics overseas and return as US /UK trained while they have no experience.
If Kibunjia gave a break down of specific ministries and their chief officers we will be ashamed, from DCs, chief accountants, treasury chiefs, parastal directors in each ministry.
When Kosgei had his Kinsman as a MD of KEBS, we suddenly realised it was tribalism yet when Kimunya, Ngilu, Kibaki or Annyang Nyongo does it we make no fuss.

Applause Applause Applause
i second u....
If you are going to be thinking only one thing, you might as well be thinking big. -Donald J . Trump
McReggae
#26 Posted : Thursday, April 07, 2011 12:42:41 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
....for now it is very convenient to dismiss kibunja, deep down we are suffering from thid disease called tribalism!!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
YesuWangu
#27 Posted : Thursday, April 07, 2011 12:59:17 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
MaichBlack wrote:
Rahatupu wrote:
IMHO, this seems to me to be diversionary of the Kibunja Commission. The percentages presented don't seem to be drawn from the right places:

1. The figures of ethnic composition should be tallied not against plain Census figures but from college, university, poly and high school graduates this would give a better indication of how the distribution against "qualification".


Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause

Kibunja's census is simplistic to say the least. I'll tell you for a fact that for some reasons unknown to me, certain communities prefer certain professions. Examples;

1) There is a certain Kenyan community that is in love with the Engineering field. They work hard, get themselves admitted into various Engineering courses and work their backs off to be the best Engineers they can be. I am sure there is a larger percentage of Engineers from this community than the percentage of the community in the Kenyan population.

2) There is a certain community that is in love with finance/accounts/economics related fields. A query of the students admitted in these courses in the Universities, CPA and CFA candidates etc. will show you that the percentage of the candidates from this community in these courses in greater than the percentage of the community in the Kenya population.

If you are hiring and are blind to the tribe - as you should be - you will automatically end up with more engineers from tribe A and more accountants/financial analysts etc. from tribe B.


Now what is this? Mh? What is this?

Ati a 'certain community is in love with (fill in) field'.....

I know the writer means no harm in saying that but it might be construed to mean other things e.g. 'members of a certain community are (fill in).....

These generalizations are harming us. Someone is what he is because he is what he is, not because of his community!
innairobi
#28 Posted : Thursday, April 07, 2011 2:07:38 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/2/2010
Posts: 845
Perspective: Summary of applicants of DPP

Ethnicity.........Number of Applicants

kikuyu/embu(1)...11 (36%)
luo...............8 (26%)
kisii.............6 (20%)
kamba.............2 (6%)
kalenjin..........1 (3%)
luhya.............1 (3%)
maasai............1 (3%)

3 communities represent 80% of applicants.
All my friends are heathens, take it slow. Wait for them to ask you who you know. Please don't make any sudden moves.
majimaji
#29 Posted : Thursday, April 07, 2011 2:49:12 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/4/2007
Posts: 1,162

I think there should be some Affirmative Action for some communities in GoK employment.
Otherwise they will forever feel marginalised.
livie
#30 Posted : Thursday, April 07, 2011 2:55:43 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/1/2008
Posts: 834
bwenyenye wrote:
This NCIC guy is discretely splitting the country down tribal lines by providing useless raw data. He then makes people feel left out and offers no meaningful way foward.

So now we know. How has it helped us more than make us realise we are different tribes? So does he want the govt to sack staff based on their tribe or employ more based on tribe? And as someone noted, is the basis of employment tribe or qualification and aptitude to do the job?

According to me, it is useless statements like these from 'trusted' quarters that make fodder for Political rhetoric that eventually drives people into different camps.

I think it was the most useless thing to come out of the commission yet!What happened to prosecuting hate speech guys?Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you


I thinks he's trying to bring to everyone's attention that the constitution had certain thresholds for the number of employees from the same region/ ethnic group.

And as such the relevant government departments and ministries should start rectifying the anomaly, not immediately of course but in due course as they recruit Kenyan to fill their vacancies.(affirmative action it would seem)
If you are going to be thinking only one thing, you might as well be thinking big. -Donald J . Trump
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