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Jubilee simply did a BBK on shareholders
mwanahisa
#21 Posted : Thursday, April 07, 2011 10:20:14 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
Thanks @msimon. You are obviously better at analysing insurance companies than I am, so I will certainly consider your views but I am not done buying Jubilee yet. Indeed, I intend to double my stake in Jubilee over the next one year. Obviously, the froth in the price will come down at some point. But 110 is an incredibly low valuation. I would love to get it at that price, but that is a dream.

Interesting - what you have to say on Panafric. I have a modest stake in it and have been considering whether to exit or to add. I will probably await a valuation of the APA stake to make my move. I also want more clarification on their real estate investment(s) in Runda.

As for Kenya Re, I am fully in agreement with you. But in this market, I have realised that sometimes if you get in too early, you may be lonely for quite a while. But I am happy to get the 5% dividend as I await a big payday sometime in the future. In the short term, I am convinced I will get a 20% return in any case, before too long.

Incidentally, what are your views on CFC Insurance Holdings assuming it trades at the introduction price of 6.157? Could you also weigh in on CIC?
the deal
#22 Posted : Thursday, April 07, 2011 10:34:49 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
well msimon knws his stuff but like the so many sharp analysts out there he lacks 1 or 2 things msimon do u thnk kenya re can survive without mandary concessions? do u knw JUB has a stake in reinsurer?
msimon
#23 Posted : Thursday, April 07, 2011 11:19:30 AM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 8/23/2010
Posts: 63
Location: Kampala
mwanahisa wrote:
Thanks @msimon. You are obviously better at analysing insurance companies than I am, so I will certainly consider your views but I am not done buying Jubilee yet. Indeed, I intend to double my stake in Jubilee over the next one year. Obviously, the froth in the price will come down at some point. But 110 is an incredibly low valuation. I would love to get it at that price, but that is a dream.

Interesting - what you have to say on Panafric. I have a modest stake in it and have been considering whether to exit or to add. I will probably await a valuation of the APA stake to make my move. I also want more clarification on their real estate investment(s) in Runda.

As for Kenya Re, I am fully in agreement with you. But in this market, I have realised that sometimes if you get in too early, you may be lonely for quite a while. But I am happy to get the 5% dividend as I await a big payday sometime in the future. In the short term, I am convinced I will get a 20% return in any case, before too long.

Incidentally, what are your views on CFC Insurance Holdings assuming it trades at the introduction price of 6.157? Could you also weigh in on CIC?

the deal wrote:
well msimon knws his stuff but like the so many sharp analysts out there he lacks 1 or 2 things msimon do u thnk kenya re can survive without mandary concessions? do u knw JUB has a stake in reinsurer?

Well CFC at 6 is below book, but the key is what's their underwriting margin.
Ultimately, you want an insurance company for 3 reasons moving parallel. That is for General Non-life insurers
1. Underwriting margins
2. Investment Income
3. Asset price appreciation.
If the demonstrate that ability,the they are good companies. Only buy at sensible px.
About the Runda Investments, i think that falls in their Life portfolio, am not sure about the returns.

One business i admire is CIC. Those guys have been generating alot of float in the last 5-7yrs and the returns have been great. In addition, their management if great and their business model is outstanding, i mean, just business from Co-op bank can always keep them in the green,what of other businesses?
The main challenge for us is the fact that its requirements for entry are hard so we have to wait for IPO,since we are not in kenya and part of a co-operative. However, news on the ground in kampala is that Co-op bank is opening shop in the next few months(probably through a takeover) and we'd like the to come with CIC.
Am not certain of the impact mandatory ceding would have on Kenya Re's bottom line, but i think, the real way would be for the to reduce the government holding, if not, bring in a serious management team. Am sure if Mr. James Mwangi or any of such caliber got hold of Kenya Re, it would be selling way higher. You know, at the prevailing price and earnings, assume they remained constant, and investor today would break even on earnings in 4yrs and on dividends in about 19-15yrs. So thats something. Consider this, companies with lesser earnings or similar earnings are selling for 10 times what kenya Re is going for. So something has got to give. We need a catalyst for this stock to shine and then the patient investors will be rewarded, in the mean time, the 5% is good enough and if reinvested at a higher rate, or same rate then the yield would be about 7-10%.
Kirika
#24 Posted : Thursday, April 07, 2011 12:43:46 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/26/2011
Posts: 211
Location: Nairobi

Whatever the analysis i'm simply keeping to my resoultion of building a war chest for the next 2 years.

@ Msimon given your depth on Insurance, do you think Jubilee will sustain the growth trajectory, and whats your honest mkt price valuation of this counter ?

msimon
#25 Posted : Thursday, April 07, 2011 12:58:43 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 8/23/2010
Posts: 63
Location: Kampala
Kirika wrote:

Whatever the analysis i'm simply keeping to my resoultion of building a war chest for the next 2 years.

@ Msimon given your depth on Insurance, do you think Jubilee will sustain the growth trajectory, and whats your honest mkt price valuation of this counter ?



Kirika- No doubt, you can expect Jubilee to maintain its trajectory ard 10-12% over the next 5-10yrs. They have a great management and also great forward and backward linkages so they are assured of steady demand. Including their expansion policy and great vision. This indeed is a great counter, one you'll be comfortable holding for a very long time. Only challenge is that its good for those who already bought. Currently, the price isn't that pleasing and you can get far better returns with capital invested elsewhere. Please ignore this(our fair value estimate for the px is anywhere below 120/-.)Simply because we follow a value oriented approach and we believe money is made when you buy, not when you sell.
Aguytrying
#26 Posted : Friday, April 08, 2011 9:03:15 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 5,040
msimon wrote:
Kirika wrote:

Whatever the analysis i'm simply keeping to my resoultion of building a war chest for the next 2 years.

@ Msimon given your depth on Insurance, do you think Jubilee will sustain the growth trajectory, and whats your honest mkt price valuation of this counter ?



Kirika- No doubt, you can expect Jubilee to maintain its trajectory ard 10-12% over the next 5-10yrs. They have a great management and also great forward and backward linkages so they are assured of steady demand. Including their expansion policy and great vision. This indeed is a great counter, one you'll be comfortable holding for a very long time. Only challenge is that its good for those who already bought. Currently, the price isn't that pleasing and you can get far better returns with capital invested elsewhere. Please ignore this(our fair value estimate for the px is anywhere below 120/-.)Simply because we follow a value oriented approach and we believe money is made when you buy, not when you sell.


Msimon, just wondering who is we?
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
mwanahisa
#27 Posted : Friday, April 08, 2011 9:34:36 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
Aguytrying wrote:
Msimon, just wondering who is we?


And while at it could you also give us the basis of your valuation to arrive at 120? Kindly also let us know what values you arrive at for PanAfric, KenRe, CFCIH and CIC using the same methodology, if possible.
Horton
#28 Posted : Friday, April 08, 2011 9:37:14 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/30/2007
Posts: 1,558
Location: Nairobi
@msimon...what "warchest"??? These guys combined ratio was at 145....which means for every Kshs 1 they get as premium, they give out 1.45 whether as an expense or as a claim/benefit...

They are only surviving thanks to their investment income.....I had bought this company at 160-170....i knew the income thanks to the stockmarket for them will be good in fair value gains...dumped it at 220 and got on to panafrican insurance....

Pan african will be selling APA during this FY(39.9%) of it. APA is a company that made of about 130m in net profits and its par value per share is 100....so im sure it will do well for Panafrican coz even if they sell at twice par value, it works out to Kshs...10bob in eps....or thereabouts......
the deal
#29 Posted : Friday, April 08, 2011 10:41:35 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
haaaya wat kind of analysts r this? the company is called Jubilee holdings not Jubilee insurance...Jubilee insurance is jst a division of Jubilee holdings
Kirika
#30 Posted : Friday, April 08, 2011 11:12:05 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/26/2011
Posts: 211
Location: Nairobi
@ msimon

Are you saying that the mkt price based on your valuation is Ksh 120 ?

That's way below a steal, it could be fraudulent to purchase Jubilee at such a price.

Anywho, i wouldnt mind buying such a wonderful company at such a fair fair fair price...Drool Drool

Please let us in on your valuation model and while at it let us know the same about Panafric et al.....

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