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Bargains to buy from tomorrow???
kyt
#281 Posted : Monday, March 11, 2013 3:22:38 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
the last time my portfolio was this high was 2011 january and what followed was not pleasant, i lost 0.4M in paper money, i think the bourse will snap in the very near future and the fall may be hard
LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
VituVingiSana
#282 Posted : Monday, March 11, 2013 4:00:21 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,350
Location: Nairobi
Aguytrying wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
*Nervous* Do I sell or wait? [Except KK which I hoped would fall below 10 but there is a glimmer of hope it will go sub-10 after the FY 2012 results are released]


U are kidding right? Ur the last person here I expect to be nervous. If u get nervous even lady admin and wsmile azua board may get nervous.
I am. Not coz of the potential of the economy or the optimism but the level of prices.

The shares (for many firms) are no longer cheap unless the economy can post high growth rates. PERs are have exploded. At the end of the day, 'value' counts.

There will be some bargains here & there but many are priced at high multiples including EABL, BAT & Safaricom & these 3 are among the top 10 capitalized firms. Even Equity is getting 'pricey' though it does surprise to the upside.

I do not understand the current price of ARM & ScanGroup but they do grow profits at a good clip.

Anyway, I think Buffettian & I worry the easy pickings are gone & what should I cash out of?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Aguytrying
#283 Posted : Monday, March 11, 2013 7:47:57 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 5,040
VituVingiSana wrote:
Aguytrying wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
*Nervous* Do I sell or wait? [Except KK which I hoped would fall below 10 but there is a glimmer of hope it will go sub-10 after the FY 2012 results are released]


U are kidding right? Ur the last person here I expect to be nervous. If u get nervous even lady admin and wsmile azua board may get nervous.
I am. Not coz of the potential of the economy or the optimism but the level of prices.

The shares (for many firms) are no longer cheap unless the economy can post high growth rates. PERs are have exploded. At the end of the day, 'value' counts.

There will be some bargains here & there but many are priced at high multiples including EABL, BAT & Safaricom & these 3 are among the top 10 capitalized firms. Even Equity is getting 'pricey' though it does surprise to the upside.

I do not understand the current price of ARM & ScanGroup but they do grow profits at a good clip.

Anyway, I think Buffettian & I worry the easy pickings are gone & what should I cash out of?


Thanks. you're a true value investor.
I have also had a hard time picking stocks the whole of this year.
Unfortunately this is when most people feel comfortable buying?

One question, what parameters and at what levels(of the parameters) guide you on fair value or overvalued companies that help you judge when to sell?
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
VituVingiSana
#284 Posted : Monday, March 11, 2013 8:36:30 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,350
Location: Nairobi
@AGuy

1) Check out http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/ and read WB's letters.
2) Read Charlie Munger's letters when he was at Wesco.

What do I use to decide to sell? (There is a lot of subjectivity)

1) Board. Are they owners or just paid to say yes to the CEO or Chairman? I like owners. Are they selling shares? (Think when Somens were selling at 20)

2) Management. Are they owners? Or salaried no matter what? I like owners. Are they selling shares? (Think when Somens were selling at 20 or when Jame Mworia sold Centum before the drop in profits)

3) Forecast/Future PE Ratio. I use the past/history to find a 'future' EPS. Subjective & many inputs go in this. The lower PE, the better. High PERs scare me. Makes me want to sell for cash or re-allocation.

4) NAV discounted by goodwill, etc. Subjective elements as well since some assets may be carried in the books at higher (e.g. goodwill) or lower (property) value than the 'real' value. What is the real value? Again, subjective. NAV per share gives you Price to Book. The lower the better. industry specific e.g. Scangroup has a high PB but that's OK.

5) Sector/Industry. Banks do well no matter what. Or so it seems!!! I made a mistake with KenolKobil. Well managed, etc but the price controls have decimated industry profits. You will see disinvestment as petrol stations shut down to give way to offices & commercial space. Suppose GoK imposes caps on banks then look at it again.

6) Dividend Yield (& Dividend Cover). BAT, EABL (until the recent expansion that is funded by debt), etc are great payers. Of course, some firms pay low dividends but grow faster. Think Berkshire Hathaway.

7) High Interest Rates. Scary. Folks sell to buy Bonds which lowers the prices. Also firms with debt suffer e.g. Unga, KK, etc. So perhaps a time to sell? Or buy banks whose interest margins jump. Very high rates will cause defaults thus hurting banks.

If I do not trust Management, the rest is irrelevant e.g. Neveready (merali), Sameer/Firestone (merali), Government Controlled firms unless very cheap (Kenya Re), etc
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Aguytrying
#285 Posted : Monday, March 11, 2013 9:44:21 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 5,040
@vvs. Thanks. this info is more valuable than money . will read into munger's and buffet's letters.
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
youcan'tstopusnow
#286 Posted : Monday, March 11, 2013 10:14:40 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
VVS, you ditched KPLC? (Re: Govt. controlled firms)
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
VituVingiSana
#287 Posted : Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:56:55 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,350
Location: Nairobi
youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
VVS, you ditched KPLC? (Re: Govt. controlled firms)
Not completely but that is just coz I am looking for 'euphoria' gains.
GoK took 51%, refused to grant the triennial increase as per the Rights Issue Memorandum and the firm started hurting. I am learning from my errors.
So I have decided not to touch GoK firms unless it is at a HUGE discount which makes it attractive.

I do not bother with KenGen & no new KPLC (reduced) since the Rights Issue. The Board members have little personal share ownership.
I am staying away from Merali firms.
Also not a fan on Olympia as long as the Obura & Matu families are in 'power' & if Paul Ndungu lost money in it who are we?
KQ - GoK has 29% vs KLM's 26% thus GoK can override KLM. The Board members & Management have little personal share ownership. They will not oppose GoK as long as the perks (free flights, etc) flow.
Kenya Re - Unless it is very cheap, it is of little interest. look how well Jubilee performs vs Kenya Re.
NBK is in the same boat. It will do better but not as well as private banks (DTB, NIC, I&M Bank via City Trust, Equity)
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#288 Posted : Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:59:35 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,350
Location: Nairobi
Aguytrying wrote:
@vvs. Thanks. this info is more valuable than money . will read into munger's and buffet's letters.
The time spent reading their letters is education for a lifetime.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
guru267
#289 Posted : Tuesday, March 12, 2013 7:33:58 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
Kenya Re - Unless it is very cheap, it is of little interest. look how well Jubilee performs vs Kenya Re.


@VVS it is true Jubilee has usually has a better performance management than Kenya re but it think this Is more than compensated for in the share price

Price to book ratio: Kenya re (0.7) vs Jubilee (1.62)

Price to earnings ratio: Kenya re (5.4) vs Jubilee (7.5)

These differences in value reflect differences in management making them almost equal in terms of investment potential!
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
the deal
#290 Posted : Tuesday, March 12, 2013 8:09:29 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
@VVS it depends where you are holding...some stocks are still undervalued despite the recent crazy price rallies...some stocks were ignored i.e Insurance stocks, selected banks ( CFC & HF) and some selected Industrial stocks i.e TCL & KEGN etc...the rest are very much overvalued. Take e.g CFC trading at a PE of 8 like its peers TP is KES80 upside from the current price 27%....if we see further growth this year i.e 15% growth even KES80 becomes a steal. More than 90% of Equity Banks regional profits come from South Sudan...so I believe there is alot of upside for CFC in that market...now they should target Ethiopia I dont think Standard Bank SA has operations there...same with HF...trading conditions have improved...at a PE of 8 TP becomes 26...assuming growth this year then it becomes a steal.
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