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Kenya Airways...why ignore..
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Kausha wrote:Lets do our homework. KQ does not lease any 767 or 777 from KLM. It has only leased a few 737's for short to medium haul routes. Why would they lease 777's yet there's are not fully utilized. I prefer to buy into airlines with leased planes just like I love manufacturers who soak debt and produce consistent return. Leased planes put discipline in management of an airline.
It's incorrect to say purchased planes are cheaper because when business ain't great you park the damn planes. All planes have by and large simmilar costs but the difference is cashflow movement. When you park a purchased plane during market down turns you are paying for - parking fees, cabin crew costs, cockpit crew costs, engineers costs, offices on your routes and their staff costs, insurance premiums, interest and loan repayments etc. I would rather a leased plane because it incurs all other costs but importantly it keeps management honest and puts pressure on them to generate cashflows to fund plane lease payments. I dont think I said KQ leased the 767 and 777 from KLM, the fact is they leased and continue to lease several planes from KLM, the 767 and 777 are mainly leased from GECAS. KQ uses 767 planes to fly in Africa (Long Range planes for short distances) which translates to a waste in fuel, hence it was wise to acquire the Embraer planes. Do you really know how leasing works? If KQ leases a plane to fly the malawi route then like the other day, the flights are stopped, isn't that a loss, doesnt the plane still has to pay for parking fees and the bla bla you stated above? Esp given that they leasing company will expect a check at the end of the month? Owning is better in the long run, if they decide to ground a plane, the human resources can be terminated and the plane leased or sold to another operator. May be its time you did your homework "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,366 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:Kausha wrote:Lets do our homework. KQ does not lease any 767 or 777 from KLM. It has only leased a few 737's for short to medium haul routes. Why would they lease 777's yet there's are not fully utilized. I prefer to buy into airlines with leased planes just like I love manufacturers who soak debt and produce consistent return. Leased planes put discipline in management of an airline.
It's incorrect to say purchased planes are cheaper because when business ain't great you park the damn planes. All planes have by and large simmilar costs but the difference is cashflow movement. When you park a purchased plane during market down turns you are paying for - parking fees, cabin crew costs, cockpit crew costs, engineers costs, offices on your routes and their staff costs, insurance premiums, interest and loan repayments etc. I would rather a leased plane because it incurs all other costs but importantly it keeps management honest and puts pressure on them to generate cashflows to fund plane lease payments. I dont think I said KQ leased the 767 and 777 from KLM, the fact is they leased and continue to lease several planes from KLM, the 767 and 777 are mainly leased from GECAS. KQ uses 767 planes to fly in Africa (Long Range planes for short distances) which translates to a waste in fuel, hence it was wise to acquire the Embraer planes. Do you really know how leasing works? If KQ leases a plane to fly the malawi route then like the other day, the flights are stopped, isn't that a loss, doesnt the plane still has to pay for parking fees and the bla bla you stated above? Esp given that they leasing company will expect a check at the end of the month? Owning is better in the long run, if they decide to ground a plane, the human resources can be terminated and the plane leased or sold to another operator. May be its time you did your homework 1) You can't terminate the 'human resources' on a flight to flight basis. The fixed costs [admin, etc] remain. As for flight crew, they are guaranteed certain minimum hours regardless whether they fly or not. As you saw, KQ can't even fire those it does not need! 2) There is often little difference in costs between buying & leasing except the initial cash outlay for leases is lower. KQ has to deposit 5-10% of the purchase price to get the loans. When it is acquiring 20 planes, that adds up fast. 3) The 767s served a purpose & stayed too long in service primarily due to delays in the delivery of 787s. Some destinations are better served with 767s due to increased cargo space. The narrow Embraers can carry passengers but little additional cargo when full. 4) When traffic is slow [see flights after 9/11 or during the GFC] it may be difficult to get a 'fair' price for the plane or get a great lease rate. There is often over-supply during this time & firms like GECAS have a leg up over small airlines like KQ. They can offer better rates & packages as well as have an extensive rolodex. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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VVS Human resources can be terminated or deployed infact, the best way to go is to lease that. Have a company that will supply stewards and hostesses as needed. And KQ did fire them, forget the politics. Leasing is considerably higher in the longrun esp for bigger companies or companies that foresee growth, the insurance of leased planes is higher and its often passed to the user, leasing fees include mileage covered. In the long run, lease payments are more than 90% the price of the aircraft. Now on Embrears and cargo, the planes are mainly passenger planes that are meant to fly shortrange and the cargo space is just enough for that, if anything, it would makes business sense if KQ runs cargo and passenger planes as different entities. Again, 767s are not short-range flights even though they can handle enough cargo, you find that the returns are very minimal, the delivery of 787 should not be an excuse for KQ to fly a 767 to Dar or Malawi infact 787s should not fly shortrange also, the 737s can do that. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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looks like bankruptcy might be closer than we thought www.businessdailyafrica....40/-/xes54o/-/index.htmlMark 12:29 Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2010 Posts: 5,040
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will gava wait till this company is completely bankrupt. this could be the next uchumi. 752 management staff.... isn't that too high. how can a company borrowing 5b to survive be the same company raising 10b last year for aggresive expansion. if u realise u are in a sinking boat, stop paddling The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/2/2011 Posts: 4,824 Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
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Aguytrying wrote:will gava wait till this company is completely bankrupt. this could be the next uchumi. 752 management staff.... isn't that too high. how can a company borrowing 5b to survive be the same company raising 10b last year for aggresive expansion. if u realise u are in a sinking boat, stop paddling ARE WE SEEING THE LAST DAYS OF KQ? NO. WE STILL HAVE 3 MORE YEARS BEFORE IT COLLAPSES Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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dunkang wrote:Aguytrying wrote:will gava wait till this company is completely bankrupt. this could be the next uchumi. 752 management staff.... isn't that too high. how can a company borrowing 5b to survive be the same company raising 10b last year for aggresive expansion. if u realise u are in a sinking boat, stop paddling ARE WE SEEING THE LAST DAYS OF KQ? NO. WE STILL HAVE 3 MORE YEARS BEFORE IT COLLAPSES There is no company here... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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I smell a rat! There is no way government can allow KQ to go down. And it says something that Naikuni has been at the helm and continues to be so. Someone wants this share to hit rock bottom, before buying the same when revamping will happen. Market manipulation at its best!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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dunkang wrote:Aguytrying wrote:will gava wait till this company is completely bankrupt. this could be the next uchumi. 752 management staff.... isn't that too high. how can a company borrowing 5b to survive be the same company raising 10b last year for aggresive expansion. if u realise u are in a sinking boat, stop paddling ARE WE SEEING THE LAST DAYS OF KQ? NO. WE STILL HAVE 3 MORE YEARS BEFORE IT COLLAPSES @dunkang one more year of an 8billion loss will cause insolvency Mark 12:29 Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/12/2010 Posts: 1,199 Location: Eastlander
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Mukiri wrote:I smell a rat! There is no way government can allow KQ to go down. And it says something that Naikuni has been at the helm and continues to be so. Someone wants this share to hit rock bottom, before buying the same when revamping will happen.
Market manipulation at its best! @Mukiri..please read the first post on this thread. ..operational inefficiency has eroded KQ asset value.. and those variables aren't controlled by persons outside KQ management..and if ur argument that there is market manipulation on this counter..then prove it. It's crap..Naikuni needs to go.. unfortunately..he is there probably out of political/ethnic patronage..not merit..unless merit on performance is gauged by pretty low standards. ..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16 - 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
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