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Co-operative Bank fate.. discuss
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,064 Location: Nairobi
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enyands wrote:Realtreaty wrote:Will the BANKS bleed heavily? Were they involved in the debate to curb Interest rates and what was their take and say?
If they were doing genuine business what is their worry.
Was this the reason Barclays Africa decided to sell after enjoying unregulated period for for a Century?
Time Banks invested on the Land assets they have and enter into partnership with growing commercial and Industrial businesses. At this point banks should forget about generating income from interest income. They should think of commissions income, deals they make with partners becausw what I'm seeing is a point where bank shares will be dead beat. Bear effect and also cbk stringent rules on npl and uncertainty about change of laws on lending interest. Things are going to be very tough. Banks will adapt. I believe banks shot themselves in the foot but they have been around [worldwide] for 100s of years... 1) By reducing lending to deadbeats [at higher interest rates] they will concentrate on stronger firms/borrowers. NPLs will drop. Staff numbers will drop. *Better borrowers need less hand-holding, following up, letters, phone calls, etc. Then no need to involve lawyers, collection agents, etc* 2) Larger borrowers have more complex requirements BUT they also borrow larger amounts. The amount of work required to lend Shs 100mn is not that much more than Shs 1mn. The real margin can be maintained at a fair spread. 3) Technology: This will help bank reduce the rate of defaults by flagging bad borrowers. Or help avoid them altogether. 4) Often, T-Bills and T-Bonds yield more than CBR+4%. So banks have an outlet for their funds. 5) Assuming "current" accounts aren't affected by the 70% of T-Bill rate interest then banks will make Savings Accounts unattractive esp for smaller savers. Raise the minimum to 100,000/- and you (sadly) wipe out many small savers. 6) Lower NPLs = lower capital requirements as Basel 3 moves to Capital Requirements based on RISK of the loan book. Finally, new products and fees. They will charge higher commitment fees, ATM charges, RTGS charges, custody fees, cheque cashing fees, etc. Equity leads the rest of the banks in growing these other sources of income. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/25/2014 Posts: 2,300 Location: kenya
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VituVingiSana wrote:enyands wrote:Realtreaty wrote:Will the BANKS bleed heavily? Were they involved in the debate to curb Interest rates and what was their take and say?
If they were doing genuine business what is their worry.
Was this the reason Barclays Africa decided to sell after enjoying unregulated period for for a Century?
Time Banks invested on the Land assets they have and enter into partnership with growing commercial and Industrial businesses. At this point banks should forget about generating income from interest income. They should think of commissions income, deals they make with partners becausw what I'm seeing is a point where bank shares will be dead beat. Bear effect and also cbk stringent rules on npl and uncertainty about change of laws on lending interest. Things are going to be very tough. Banks will adapt. I believe banks shot themselves in the foot but they have been around [worldwide] for 100s of years... 1) By reducing lending to deadbeats [at higher interest rates] they will concentrate on stronger firms/borrowers. NPLs will drop. Staff numbers will drop. *Better borrowers need less hand-holding, following up, letters, phone calls, etc. Then no need to involve lawyers, collection agents, etc* 2) Larger borrowers have more complex requirements BUT they also borrow larger amounts. The amount of work required to lend Shs 100mn is not that much more than Shs 1mn. The real margin can be maintained at a fair spread. 3) Technology: This will help bank reduce the rate of defaults by flagging bad borrowers. Or help avoid them altogether. 4) Often, T-Bills and T-Bonds yield more than CBR+4%. So banks have an outlet for their funds. 5) Assuming "current" accounts aren't affected by the 70% of T-Bill rate interest then banks will make Savings Accounts unattractive esp for smaller savers. Raise the minimum to 100,000/- and you (sadly) wipe out many small savers. 6) Lower NPLs = lower capital requirements as Basel 3 moves to Capital Requirements based on RISK of the loan book. Finally, new products and fees. They will charge higher commitment fees, ATM charges, RTGS charges, custody fees, cheque cashing fees, etc. Equity leads the rest of the banks in growing these other sources of income. Good wise arguments .holds alot of weight. Other source of revenues is the key
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,064 Location: Nairobi
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For an example of a tightly controlled banking sector look at Ethiopia. The Ethiopian banks [no foreign ownership is allowed] are hide-bound. Some [the newer or private] use newer technology, etc or offer more services BUT overall their lending is limited to a few borrowers. In Kenya, the banks lend to a diverse group of Kenyans. Yes, not all the deals work out as the NPLs show but private banks lending to the private sector allows for an increasing share of the GDP in private hands. No need for bailouts. If private firms collapse = they collapse. Banks need to IMPROVE their lending systems/processes to identify high risk borrowers before the banks loan out the funds. They should NOT pass on the premium of poor borrowers onto good borrowers. That's what pisses off many borrowers. If the Bill becomes Law as it is... there will be consolidation since the niches served by some banks will disappear or shrink. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,477 Location: nairobi
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Seriously what spooked the COOP share.. This is madness
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,646 Location: NAIROBI
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@Obiero This was coming. Lack of strategy.You can't grow a bank by cost cutting measures Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/16/2011 Posts: 2,261
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VituVingiSana wrote:For an example of a tightly controlled banking sector look at Ethiopia.
The Ethiopian banks [no foreign ownership is allowed] are hide-bound. Some [the newer or private] use newer technology, etc or offer more services BUT overall their lending is limited to a few borrowers. In Kenya, the banks lend to a diverse group of Kenyans. Yes, not all the deals work out as the NPLs show but private banks lending to the private sector allows for an increasing share of the GDP in private hands. No need for bailouts. If private firms collapse = they collapse.
Banks need to IMPROVE their lending systems/processes to identify high risk borrowers before the banks loan out the funds. They should NOT pass on the premium of poor borrowers onto good borrowers. That's what pisses off many borrowers.
If the Bill becomes Law as it is... there will be consolidation since the niches served by some banks will disappear or shrink. The Bill to cut on rates and increase rates on deposits is just too new to have been the effect trying Co-op Bank. Apart from billions held in land and other properties C0-OP has a chest capital of over 300 Billions
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,064 Location: Nairobi
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Realtreaty wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:For an example of a tightly controlled banking sector look at Ethiopia.
The Ethiopian banks [no foreign ownership is allowed] are hide-bound. Some [the newer or private] use newer technology, etc or offer more services BUT overall their lending is limited to a few borrowers. In Kenya, the banks lend to a diverse group of Kenyans. Yes, not all the deals work out as the NPLs show but private banks lending to the private sector allows for an increasing share of the GDP in private hands. No need for bailouts. If private firms collapse = they collapse.
Banks need to IMPROVE their lending systems/processes to identify high risk borrowers before the banks loan out the funds. They should NOT pass on the premium of poor borrowers onto good borrowers. That's what pisses off many borrowers.
If the Bill becomes Law as it is... there will be consolidation since the niches served by some banks will disappear or shrink. The Bill to cut on rates and increase rates on deposits is just too new to have been the effect trying Co-op Bank. Apart from billions held in land and other properties C0-OP has a chest capital of over 300 Billions B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,477 Location: nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:Realtreaty wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:For an example of a tightly controlled banking sector look at Ethiopia.
The Ethiopian banks [no foreign ownership is allowed] are hide-bound. Some [the newer or private] use newer technology, etc or offer more services BUT overall their lending is limited to a few borrowers. In Kenya, the banks lend to a diverse group of Kenyans. Yes, not all the deals work out as the NPLs show but private banks lending to the private sector allows for an increasing share of the GDP in private hands. No need for bailouts. If private firms collapse = they collapse.
Banks need to IMPROVE their lending systems/processes to identify high risk borrowers before the banks loan out the funds. They should NOT pass on the premium of poor borrowers onto good borrowers. That's what pisses off many borrowers.
If the Bill becomes Law as it is... there will be consolidation since the niches served by some banks will disappear or shrink. The Bill to cut on rates and increase rates on deposits is just too new to have been the effect trying Co-op Bank. Apart from billions held in land and other properties C0-OP has a chest capital of over 300 Billions B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T Cosign
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/10/2014 Posts: 957 Location: Kenya
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obiero wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Realtreaty wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:For an example of a tightly controlled banking sector look at Ethiopia.
The Ethiopian banks [no foreign ownership is allowed] are hide-bound. Some [the newer or private] use newer technology, etc or offer more services BUT overall their lending is limited to a few borrowers. In Kenya, the banks lend to a diverse group of Kenyans. Yes, not all the deals work out as the NPLs show but private banks lending to the private sector allows for an increasing share of the GDP in private hands. No need for bailouts. If private firms collapse = they collapse.
Banks need to IMPROVE their lending systems/processes to identify high risk borrowers before the banks loan out the funds. They should NOT pass on the premium of poor borrowers onto good borrowers. That's what pisses off many borrowers.
If the Bill becomes Law as it is... there will be consolidation since the niches served by some banks will disappear or shrink. The Bill to cut on rates and increase rates on deposits is just too new to have been the effect trying Co-op Bank. Apart from billions held in land and other properties C0-OP has a chest capital of over 300 Billions B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T Cosign Lol 300billion capital?....no bank even has half that.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/15/2013 Posts: 1,977 Location: Here
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obiero wrote:Seriously what spooked the COOP share.. This is madness You. It appears you have bad blood/omen following you just like someone who when he supports a side, that side loses kama Harambee stars. Now @Obiero if we had wazua ipsos rating am sure you'd be ranked lowest and loosing publicity/liking fastest. Having misled the upcoming investors into the compost KQ covered with perfume. Now coop too. It's high time you went under, refresh and be reborn. Come back when you're sobber that you distinguish emotions and investments. Your sells were good but your buys?????? KQ PPT...is Co-op hiring you again? Everybody STEALS, a THIEF is one who's CAUGHT stealing something of LITTLE VALUE. !!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2010 Posts: 5,040
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Boris Boyka wrote:obiero wrote:Seriously what spooked the COOP share.. This is madness You. It appears you have bad blood/omen following you just like someone who when he supports a side, that side loses kama Harambee stars. Now @Obiero if we had wazua ipsos rating am sure you'd be ranked lowest and loosing publicity/liking fastest. Having misled the upcoming investors into the compost KQ covered with perfume. Now coop too. It's high time you went under, refresh and be reborn. Come back when you're sobber that you distinguish emotions and investments. Your sells were good but your buys?????? KQ PPT...is Co-op hiring you again?  compost covered KQ. I once said the reason coop shares never fly is coz they have too many shares. It's a good bank, but serious growth is needed to exorcise the demons above 30. This is a good time to buy now that share price is beaten down. Kcb, nic have also dropped sharply remember and they are decent banks too. The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/4/2016 Posts: 1,996 Location: Kitale
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Boris Boyka wrote:obiero wrote:Seriously what spooked the COOP share.. This is madness You. It appears you have bad blood/omen following you just like someone who when he supports a side, that side loses kama Harambee stars. Now @Obiero if we had wazua ipsos rating am sure you'd be ranked lowest and loosing publicity/liking fastest. Having misled the upcoming investors into the compost KQ covered with perfume. Now coop too. It's high time you went under, refresh and be reborn. Come back when you're sobber that you distinguish emotions and investments. Your sells were good but your buys?????? KQ PPT...is Co-op hiring you again? The best thing with him is that he is the only one among wazua vetereans who are really very open.He easily captures the imagination of many here,mostly us who joined the other day and those who came and are coming after us.I dont know how his wazua agemates look upto him but its interesting based on what i have seen so far.Just Imagine how he single handledly made sure newfarers and even dormant members and veterans are buying into kq? The thread was always the number one trending in wazua stocks section.Untill that blast article of figures in the daily nation scared everyone to death. His only downside so far is that he is mean with information. I had advised him to stop thinking about today only.Thats, to stop speculation and think longterm beyond his grandchildren. From 2005 upto 2015 he made kshs 1milion only.If he had started with long term thinking,im sure he could have made 5 milion. For Coop bank,we are all in agreement that its ability to grow and compete with its peers is wanting.I blame current CEO.Hopefully someone else will come after him and make a difference. The current dividend yield of 5% is good. Obiero should take advantage of falling coop share price to average down his buying price and accumulate more.Start from here and think longterm and it will be well with him. I believe i will be rich by accumulating more shares of good companies in the next 24 years. There are atleast 3 people here in wazua whom i believe will be rich in the next ten years based on their strategy and thinking. Towards the goal of financial freedom
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2010 Posts: 5,040
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@Ebenyo. As long as you hold good counters, watch over them to ensure they are solid and not overpay for them. You will be rich!! I bought kk over the last 3 years below 9.00 and look at me now. Dont be fooled by this is an election year or this is a bear market. Just look at the valuation and pull the trigger. I'm currently buying Dtb below 170. Equity below 37.00, pan Africa below 37, and FTGH below 5.55. Check my bear wishlist thread. Those are my holdings / planned holdings. Im Also a long termer, speculation is not for me. I don't believe in selling unless an underlying detrimental problem with the company or sector emerges. The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,064 Location: Nairobi
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Aguytrying wrote:@Ebenyo. As long as you hold good counters, watch over them to ensure they are solid and not overpay for them. You will be rich!!
I bought kk over the last 3 years below 9.00 and look at me now. Dont be fooled by this is an election year or this is a bear market. Just look at the valuation and pull the trigger. I'm currently buying Dtb below 170. Equity below 37.00, pan Africa below 37, and FTGH below 5.55. Check my bear wishlist thread. Those are my holdings / planned holdings. Im Also a long termer, speculation is not for me. I don't believe in selling unless an underlying detrimental problem with the company or sector emerges.
I have a twin Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,477 Location: nairobi
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Ebenyo wrote:Boris Boyka wrote:obiero wrote:Seriously what spooked the COOP share.. This is madness You. It appears you have bad blood/omen following you just like someone who when he supports a side, that side loses kama Harambee stars. Now @Obiero if we had wazua ipsos rating am sure you'd be ranked lowest and loosing publicity/liking fastest. Having misled the upcoming investors into the compost KQ covered with perfume. Now coop too. It's high time you went under, refresh and be reborn. Come back when you're sobber that you distinguish emotions and investments. Your sells were good but your buys?????? KQ PPT...is Co-op hiring you again? The best thing with him is that he is the only one among wazua vetereans who are really very open.He easily captures the imagination of many here,mostly us who joined the other day and those who came and are coming after us.I dont know how his wazua agemates look upto him but its interesting based on what i have seen so far.Just Imagine how he single handledly made sure newfarers and even dormant members and veterans are buying into kq? The thread was always the number one trending in wazua stocks section.Untill that blast article of figures in the daily nation scared everyone to death. His only downside so far is that he is mean with information. I had advised him to stop thinking about today only.Thats, to stop speculation and think longterm beyond his grandchildren. From 2005 upto 2015 he made kshs 1milion only.If he had started with long term thinking,im sure he could have made 5 milion. For Coop bank,we are all in agreement that its ability to grow and compete with its peers is wanting.I blame current CEO.Hopefully someone else will come after him and make a difference. The current dividend yield of 5% is good. Obiero should take advantage of falling coop share price to average down his buying price and accumulate more.Start from here and think longterm and it will be well with him. I believe i will be rich by accumulating more shares of good companies in the next 24 years. There are atleast 3 people here in wazua whom i believe will be rich in the next ten years based on their strategy and thinking. @boyka Ala. I hadnt seen this character injury. KQ is a personal journey and I have told many here not to follow me since 2014. That is a fact that even @vvs accepts. Now, how can my sales be good but my buys be wanting?? I will tell you one thing, timing!!! KQ will shock many @ebenyo asante for the vote of confidence but usidanganye watu that I only made KES 1m in 10 years bwana!!!
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,477 Location: nairobi
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Aguytrying wrote:Boris Boyka wrote:obiero wrote:Seriously what spooked the COOP share.. This is madness You. It appears you have bad blood/omen following you just like someone who when he supports a side, that side loses kama Harambee stars. Now @Obiero if we had wazua ipsos rating am sure you'd be ranked lowest and loosing publicity/liking fastest. Having misled the upcoming investors into the compost KQ covered with perfume. Now coop too. It's high time you went under, refresh and be reborn. Come back when you're sobber that you distinguish emotions and investments. Your sells were good but your buys?????? KQ PPT...is Co-op hiring you again? compost covered KQ. I once said the reason coop shares never fly is coz they have too many shares. It's a good bank, but serious growth is needed to exorcise the demons above 30. This is a good time to buy now that share price is beaten down. Kcb, nic have also dropped sharply remember and they are decent banks too.
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,477 Location: nairobi
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Aguytrying wrote:Boris Boyka wrote:obiero wrote:Seriously what spooked the COOP share.. This is madness You. It appears you have bad blood/omen following you just like someone who when he supports a side, that side loses kama Harambee stars. Now @Obiero if we had wazua ipsos rating am sure you'd be ranked lowest and loosing publicity/liking fastest. Having misled the upcoming investors into the compost KQ covered with perfume. Now coop too. It's high time you went under, refresh and be reborn. Come back when you're sobber that you distinguish emotions and investments. Your sells were good but your buys?????? KQ PPT...is Co-op hiring you again? compost covered KQ. I once said the reason coop shares never fly is coz they have too many shares. It's a good bank, but serious growth is needed to exorcise the demons above 30. This is a good time to buy now that share price is beaten down. Kcb, nic have also dropped sharply remember and they are decent banks too. Now if COOP is accused of having many shares what about SCOM. Kuna watu hunishangaza sana hapa wazua
HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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If it's any consolation, their CEO is hurting most with his 100m-plus shares.
That means he has lost a cool 1B. And another 500mn at CIC where he is the largest individual shareholder.
And here I am still agonizing about a loss <100k.
Kweli hii dunia hatuwezi toshana.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,901
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FRM2011 wrote:If it's any consolation, their CEO is hurting most with his 100m-plus shares.
That means he has lost a cool 1B. And another 500mn at CIC where he is the largest individual shareholder.
And here I am still agonizing about a loss <100k.
Kweli hii dunia hatuwezi toshana. Hurting kabisa with his 90m bonus for year 2015. In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2010 Posts: 5,040
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VituVingiSana wrote:Aguytrying wrote:@Ebenyo. As long as you hold good counters, watch over them to ensure they are solid and not overpay for them. You will be rich!!
I bought kk over the last 3 years below 9.00 and look at me now. Dont be fooled by this is an election year or this is a bear market. Just look at the valuation and pull the trigger. I'm currently buying Dtb below 170. Equity below 37.00, pan Africa below 37, and FTGH below 5.55. Check my bear wishlist thread. Those are my holdings / planned holdings. Im Also a long termer, speculation is not for me. I don't believe in selling unless an underlying detrimental problem with the company or sector emerges.
I have a twin Right on. I saw the light The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
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