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Shabaab suspects ambush bus near Mandera, kill 28
butterflyke
#241 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2014 11:50:03 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/1/2010
Posts: 3,024
Location: Hapa
ecstacy wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
KDF have pre-emptively taken out Al-Shabaab militants who were picked up by surveillance heading to Boni Forest to carry out revenge operations in the Lamu area following heavY losses experienced in Jilib town in southern Somalia.

KDF coming under the AMISOM hat has resulted in a re-energized Al Shabaab. Since the weekend slaughter in Mandera, KDF has since resumed more aggressive independent operations against Al-Shabaab.

Kudos KDF.

Top Al-Shabaab commander Abu Hamza Alkeni has been reportedly killed.


This is commendable but Kenyans want to get to the point where attacks on Kenyan soil are prevented so that we do not have to say 'they killed 28 on our soil but we killed 100 on their side Liar including a top commander'.

Sio mishale tunapimanisha urefu.
Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. - Muhammad Ali🐝
ecstacy
#242 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:10:14 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2008
Posts: 4,449
butterflyke wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
KDF have pre-emptively taken out Al-Shabaab militants who were picked up by surveillance heading to Boni Forest to carry out revenge operations in the Lamu area following heavY losses experienced in Jilib town in southern Somalia.

KDF coming under the AMISOM hat has resulted in a re-energized Al Shabaab. Since the weekend slaughter in Mandera, KDF has since resumed more aggressive independent operations against Al-Shabaab.

Kudos KDF.

Top Al-Shabaab commander Abu Hamza Alkeni has been reportedly killed.


This is commendable but Kenyans want to get to the point where attacks on Kenyan soil are prevented so that we do not have to say 'they killed 28 on our soil but we killed 100 on their side Liar including a top commander'.

Sio mishale tunapimanisha urefu.


Drone technology, jets and ground intel in Somalia is quite effective. Our issue is actually inside Kenya in Al Shabaab sympathetic or fearful areas.

The new leader of Al-Shabaab Abu-Ubaidah has issued orders to his militant commanders in the border region to attack Kenya. Brace yourself, we are in for the long haul. Al Shabaab are trying to stir an insurgency in Kenya using their local converts stirring emotive religious and land issues. That is the reason even if Kenya left Somalia today, they would still say Muslims are being aggrieved in Coast, Eastleigh etc.

It would be good to admit we have previously experienced failure on multiple local fronts but it would even be better if we focused on the actual solutions. I rather at least a person like Kratos who wants to talk real solutions instead of finger pointing. The issues are systemic and originating from decades of marginalization and alienation of sections of this country. Throw in resource discovery and you have a deadly cocktail for insurgencies using pretext of religion or tribe.
Obi 1 Kanobi
#243 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:13:16 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
Kratos wrote:
My last post on this issue.

At the risk of exposing what I do for a living, I have worked in a number of countries where terrorism is rife and have interacted with the communities of families with known terrorists amongst them and what those communities and governments are doing to fight this vice.
The challenges faced by those governments are similar to ours. Terror is a new kind of threat worldwide, without a textbook answer. For Kenya to be successful in this fight we must ask ourselves disturbing questions, we must sacrifice those amongst us who have no regard to the social fabric of the nation and the lives of Kenyans.
My ideas may not be right but hey, they're not policy.
IMHO the government has failed and the people are not doing enough.Period

And no, I don't work for the government as some would like you to believe.

This post I believe was meant to discuss on what the failures are and what should be done to solve the issue but has instead turned to mudslinging and misinterpretation. The reality is sooner or later we will have to ask the same questions am asking.

Ni hayo tuu.


@Swenani got it above, you are either ole Lenku or Kimaiyo or their advisors.

Sisi kwisha, our security situation is baa'd thanks to your like who blame victims for being victims.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
Obi 1 Kanobi
#244 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:19:08 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
ecstacy wrote:
butterflyke wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
KDF have pre-emptively taken out Al-Shabaab militants who were picked up by surveillance heading to Boni Forest to carry out revenge operations in the Lamu area following heavY losses experienced in Jilib town in southern Somalia.

KDF coming under the AMISOM hat has resulted in a re-energized Al Shabaab. Since the weekend slaughter in Mandera, KDF has since resumed more aggressive independent operations against Al-Shabaab.

Kudos KDF.

Top Al-Shabaab commander Abu Hamza Alkeni has been reportedly killed.


This is commendable but Kenyans want to get to the point where attacks on Kenyan soil are prevented so that we do not have to say 'they killed 28 on our soil but we killed 100 on their side Liar including a top commander'.

Sio mishale tunapimanisha urefu.


Drone technology, jets and ground intel in Somalia is quite effective. Our issue is actually inside Kenya in Al Shabaab sympathetic or fearful areas.

The new leader of Al-Shabaab Abu-Ubaidah has issued orders to his militant commanders in the border region to attack Kenya. Brace yourself, we are in for the long haul. Al Shabaab are trying to stir an insurgency in Kenya using their local converts stirring emotive religious and land issues. That is the reason even if Kenya left Somalia today, they would still say Muslims are being aggrieved in Coast, Eastleigh etc.

It would be good to admit we have previously experienced failure on multiple local fronts but it would even be better if we focused on the actual solutions. I rather at least a person like Kratos who wants to talk real solutions instead of finger pointing. The issues are systemic and originating from decades of marginalization and alienation of sections of this country. Throw in resource discovery and you have a deadly cocktail for insurgencies using pretext of religion or tribe.


Ok, @Ecstacy/kratos. Say I have a solution to our insecurity problem, how does that help anyone. Where do i take my solution, should I type it in this thread or should I take it to my nearest police station.

Thats the point that everyone has been trying to drill into Kratos skull for the last 4 days without success. The solution can only come from the govt of the day and directly from the insecurity chiefs.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
alma
#245 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:35:13 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
This government for all its twitter army reminds me of George Bush.

Failure after failure and all along blame the victim. After all they are the leaders, they know and the minions know nothing.

Someone comes here and says that terrorism doesn't have a textbook. So on which case it means that we throw out logic because there's no textbook.

There was a guy called Michael Brown. Google Him. He did a a heck of a job brownie.

You get promoted for anything but performance. Then make crazy statements like the ones Mutahi Ngunyi loves and promoted on this forum.

The current thing they are doing, whatever the heck it is, is not working.

I can just imagine in America a country where more than 1000 people died in one day, Obama was to enter Mosques, grab teenagers and then charge them with loitering.

If for one second you think that that particular strategy is working, then think again. Why create hate in the name of security?

Next nyumba kumi. Surely even the Chinese national party must be shocked with that one. Someone is getting tenders on these things so they will push them.

Next, now safaricom will spy on you. Forget the fact that the tender process was interesting. The fact that now Safaricom can basically spy on your phone calls, is not security. That is what we call invasion of privacy. Something that even God decided awachie bina damu tu.

Next, start militarizing the youth in the name of cleaning up Kibra. Who's fooling who here? I have seen a Kanu youth winger, I know what happens when they have finished cleaning up the neighborhood.

This is not security, if it were, no one would be dying.

I've called my spade my spade. Security is through intelligence gathering and ACTING on the intelligence.

My humble opinion.

Before President Moi passes on, could some of our security experts talk to him. We have Brigadier Wilson A.C. Boinett still with us, please talk to him. We have real security experts in this country who have been shelved like a rotten tomato.

Whatever they were doing worked. Thus far, the guys we have are doing one heck of a job brownie.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
ecstacy
#246 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:43:33 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2008
Posts: 4,449
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
butterflyke wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
KDF have pre-emptively taken out Al-Shabaab militants who were picked up by surveillance heading to Boni Forest to carry out revenge operations in the Lamu area following heavY losses experienced in Jilib town in southern Somalia.

KDF coming under the AMISOM hat has resulted in a re-energized Al Shabaab. Since the weekend slaughter in Mandera, KDF has since resumed more aggressive independent operations against Al-Shabaab.

Kudos KDF.

Top Al-Shabaab commander Abu Hamza Alkeni has been reportedly killed.


This is commendable but Kenyans want to get to the point where attacks on Kenyan soil are prevented so that we do not have to say 'they killed 28 on our soil but we killed 100 on their side Liar including a top commander'.

Sio mishale tunapimanisha urefu.


Drone technology, jets and ground intel in Somalia is quite effective. Our issue is actually inside Kenya in Al Shabaab sympathetic or fearful areas.

The new leader of Al-Shabaab Abu-Ubaidah has issued orders to his militant commanders in the border region to attack Kenya. Brace yourself, we are in for the long haul. Al Shabaab are trying to stir an insurgency in Kenya using their local converts stirring emotive religious and land issues. That is the reason even if Kenya left Somalia today, they would still say Muslims are being aggrieved in Coast, Eastleigh etc.

It would be good to admit we have previously experienced failure on multiple local fronts but it would even be better if we focused on the actual solutions. I rather at least a person like Kratos who wants to talk real solutions instead of finger pointing. The issues are systemic and originating from decades of marginalization and alienation of sections of this country. Throw in resource discovery and you have a deadly cocktail for insurgencies using pretext of religion or tribe.


Ok, @Ecstacy/kratos. Say I have a solution to our insecurity problem, how does that help anyone. Where do i take my solution, should I type it in this thread or should I take it to my nearest police station.

Thats the point that everyone has been trying to drill into Kratos skull for the last 4 days without success. The solution can only come from the govt of the day and directly from the insecurity chiefs.


I think both sides have a point. It would be best to separate the following which is where either sits:

1. Strategic direction and resourcing can only come as an outcome from the appointed security chiefs and their administrative overseers sitting in the security council.

2. Intel primarily comes from the citizenry but is only as effective on outcomes of (1) above.

A secure state requires a balance of the two.
washiku
#247 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:47:18 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
ecstacy wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
butterflyke wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
KDF have pre-emptively taken out Al-Shabaab militants who were picked up by surveillance heading to Boni Forest to carry out revenge operations in the Lamu area following heavY losses experienced in Jilib town in southern Somalia.

KDF coming under the AMISOM hat has resulted in a re-energized Al Shabaab. Since the weekend slaughter in Mandera, KDF has since resumed more aggressive independent operations against Al-Shabaab.

Kudos KDF.

Top Al-Shabaab commander Abu Hamza Alkeni has been reportedly killed.


This is commendable but Kenyans want to get to the point where attacks on Kenyan soil are prevented so that we do not have to say 'they killed 28 on our soil but we killed 100 on their side Liar including a top commander'.

Sio mishale tunapimanisha urefu.


Drone technology, jets and ground intel in Somalia is quite effective. Our issue is actually inside Kenya in Al Shabaab sympathetic or fearful areas.

The new leader of Al-Shabaab Abu-Ubaidah has issued orders to his militant commanders in the border region to attack Kenya. Brace yourself, we are in for the long haul. Al Shabaab are trying to stir an insurgency in Kenya using their local converts stirring emotive religious and land issues. That is the reason even if Kenya left Somalia today, they would still say Muslims are being aggrieved in Coast, Eastleigh etc.

It would be good to admit we have previously experienced failure on multiple local fronts but it would even be better if we focused on the actual solutions. I rather at least a person like Kratos who wants to talk real solutions instead of finger pointing. The issues are systemic and originating from decades of marginalization and alienation of sections of this country. Throw in resource discovery and you have a deadly cocktail for insurgencies using pretext of religion or tribe.


Ok, @Ecstacy/kratos. Say I have a solution to our insecurity problem, how does that help anyone. Where do i take my solution, should I type it in this thread or should I take it to my nearest police station.

Thats the point that everyone has been trying to drill into Kratos skull for the last 4 days without success. The solution can only come from the govt of the day and directly from the insecurity chiefs.


I think both sides have a point. It would be best to separate the following which is where either sits:

1. Strategic direction and resourcing can only come as an outcome from the appointed security chiefs and their administrative overseers sitting in the security council.

2. Intel primarily comes from the citizenry but is only as effective on outcomes of (1) above.

A secure state requires a balance of the two.


And my point is Fix No 1, get it right, No 2 will flow easily.
sparkly
#248 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:56:46 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
The solution is intermarriage and intergration! Even before colonisation there were tribal skirmishes. In fact the Oromos forced the eastern Bantus to migrate westwards from the coast. unfortunately while other tribes adapted to the new way of life post colonial, intergrated and intermarried, the Cushites (Somalis, Oromos, Rendilles etc) have remained fiercely closed not only within their tribes but also within their clans. If Kenyan Somalis tried harder to be part of Kenya alongside the other 41 tribes then we will make progress.

To start with they should stop trimming their ladies' airports.
Life is short. Live passionately.
ecstacy
#249 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:10:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2008
Posts: 4,449
washiku wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
butterflyke wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
KDF have pre-emptively taken out Al-Shabaab militants who were picked up by surveillance heading to Boni Forest to carry out revenge operations in the Lamu area following heavY losses experienced in Jilib town in southern Somalia.

KDF coming under the AMISOM hat has resulted in a re-energized Al Shabaab. Since the weekend slaughter in Mandera, KDF has since resumed more aggressive independent operations against Al-Shabaab.

Kudos KDF.

Top Al-Shabaab commander Abu Hamza Alkeni has been reportedly killed.


This is commendable but Kenyans want to get to the point where attacks on Kenyan soil are prevented so that we do not have to say 'they killed 28 on our soil but we killed 100 on their side Liar including a top commander'.

Sio mishale tunapimanisha urefu.


Drone technology, jets and ground intel in Somalia is quite effective. Our issue is actually inside Kenya in Al Shabaab sympathetic or fearful areas.

The new leader of Al-Shabaab Abu-Ubaidah has issued orders to his militant commanders in the border region to attack Kenya. Brace yourself, we are in for the long haul. Al Shabaab are trying to stir an insurgency in Kenya using their local converts stirring emotive religious and land issues. That is the reason even if Kenya left Somalia today, they would still say Muslims are being aggrieved in Coast, Eastleigh etc.

It would be good to admit we have previously experienced failure on multiple local fronts but it would even be better if we focused on the actual solutions. I rather at least a person like Kratos who wants to talk real solutions instead of finger pointing. The issues are systemic and originating from decades of marginalization and alienation of sections of this country. Throw in resource discovery and you have a deadly cocktail for insurgencies using pretext of religion or tribe.


Ok, @Ecstacy/kratos. Say I have a solution to our insecurity problem, how does that help anyone. Where do i take my solution, should I type it in this thread or should I take it to my nearest police station.

Thats the point that everyone has been trying to drill into Kratos skull for the last 4 days without success. The solution can only come from the govt of the day and directly from the insecurity chiefs.


I think both sides have a point. It would be best to separate the following which is where either sits:

1. Strategic direction and resourcing can only come as an outcome from the appointed security chiefs and their administrative overseers sitting in the security council.

2. Intel primarily comes from the citizenry but is only as effective on outcomes of (1) above.

A secure state requires a balance of the two.


And my point is Fix No 1, get it right, No 2 will flow easily.


Yes, but to fix (1) where we have reached, you need to understand that after collecting intel, it points to two things:

NORTHERN FRONTIER
After Independence, Mzee Jomo Kenyatta did not accord the Northern Frontier their chance to have a referendum in 1964 as agreed when the British were leaving Kenya. The generations do not feel they are really part of Kenya, throw in the sessional paper that more or less made marginalization of the Northern Frontier deliberate policy, unacknowledged military atrocities and you see the people have real issues.

Referendum now is out of the question. The ultimate solution was Devolution as implemented in the promulgated 2010 Constitution and a Mining Bill to accord local communities a chunk of resources derived from the territory their.

Politicization of the same and sponsoring of an insurgency has complicated this. Fixing the police force to required capacity to effectively maintain the state monopoly of violence here is long term. You will need to militarize this area in the interim and use strong arm tactics on the politicians until the benefits of devolution and mining empower the populace. Thereafter transition back to civil forces.

butterflyke
#250 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:32:15 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/1/2010
Posts: 3,024
Location: Hapa
ecstacy wrote:
washiku wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
butterflyke wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
KDF have pre-emptively taken out Al-Shabaab militants who were picked up by surveillance heading to Boni Forest to carry out revenge operations in the Lamu area following heavY losses experienced in Jilib town in southern Somalia.

KDF coming under the AMISOM hat has resulted in a re-energized Al Shabaab. Since the weekend slaughter in Mandera, KDF has since resumed more aggressive independent operations against Al-Shabaab.

Kudos KDF.

Top Al-Shabaab commander Abu Hamza Alkeni has been reportedly killed.


This is commendable but Kenyans want to get to the point where attacks on Kenyan soil are prevented so that we do not have to say 'they killed 28 on our soil but we killed 100 on their side Liar including a top commander'.

Sio mishale tunapimanisha urefu.


Drone technology, jets and ground intel in Somalia is quite effective. Our issue is actually inside Kenya in Al Shabaab sympathetic or fearful areas.

The new leader of Al-Shabaab Abu-Ubaidah has issued orders to his militant commanders in the border region to attack Kenya. Brace yourself, we are in for the long haul. Al Shabaab are trying to stir an insurgency in Kenya using their local converts stirring emotive religious and land issues. That is the reason even if Kenya left Somalia today, they would still say Muslims are being aggrieved in Coast, Eastleigh etc.

It would be good to admit we have previously experienced failure on multiple local fronts but it would even be better if we focused on the actual solutions. I rather at least a person like Kratos who wants to talk real solutions instead of finger pointing. The issues are systemic and originating from decades of marginalization and alienation of sections of this country. Throw in resource discovery and you have a deadly cocktail for insurgencies using pretext of religion or tribe.


Ok, @Ecstacy/kratos. Say I have a solution to our insecurity problem, how does that help anyone. Where do i take my solution, should I type it in this thread or should I take it to my nearest police station.

Thats the point that everyone has been trying to drill into Kratos skull for the last 4 days without success. The solution can only come from the govt of the day and directly from the insecurity chiefs.


I think both sides have a point. It would be best to separate the following which is where either sits:

1. Strategic direction and resourcing can only come as an outcome from the appointed security chiefs and their administrative overseers sitting in the security council.

2. Intel primarily comes from the citizenry but is only as effective on outcomes of (1) above.

A secure state requires a balance of the two.


And my point is Fix No 1, get it right, No 2 will flow easily.


Yes, but to fix (1) where we have reached, you need to understand that after collecting intel, it points to two things:

NORTHERN FRONTIER
After Independence, Mzee Jomo Kenyatta did not accord the Northern Frontier their chance to have a referendum in 1964 as agreed when the British were leaving Kenya. The generations do not feel they are really part of Kenya, throw in the sessional paper that more or less made marginalization of the Northern Frontier deliberate policy, unacknowledged military atrocities and you see the people have real issues.

Referendum now is out of the question. The ultimate solution was Devolution as implemented in the promulgated 2010 Constitution and a Mining Bill to accord local communities a chunk of resources derived from the territory their.

Politicization of the same and sponsoring of an insurgency has complicated this. Fixing the police force to required capacity to effectively maintain the state monopoly of violence here is long term. You will need to militarize this area in the interim and use strong arm tactics on the politicians until the benefits of devolution and mining empower the populace. Thereafter transition back to civil forces.



@ecstasy, you bring some good points across. We should be part of the solution but I agree with @wamambisha. A system is only as good as the action and the information it gets. Many Kenyans though have lost faith in the system due to inaction and even failing at simple things such as taking on-board information provided by the citizens. That has to be rectified by the administration!
Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. - Muhammad Ali🐝
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