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Why dustbowl is the future
VituVingiSana
#221 Posted : Monday, April 08, 2019 3:29:48 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,346
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
limanika wrote:
NewMoney wrote:
limanika wrote:
Is this road necessary at this time? Or it's meant to kill china's belt &road


Nairobi-Mombasa highway has been under-capacity for decades. Driving from Nairobi to Mombasa takes at least 8 hours when it should only take 5 hours in a private vehicle. It is also very dangerous to overtake and you are going to to be in a dozen near-misses on your way.

I can't wait for this road. I prefer going vacationing by road over any other faster means due to the flexibility, convenience and scenery it offers.

Of course, the US will be killing 2 birds with one stone here.

It's fancy to have all this, but is it viable to do all these projects on same corridor at once? Has somebody worked out the details to confirm both the road and SGR each will generate enough stimulus to the economy to repay the loans or we'll end up being auctioned by the Chinese and the Americans?

The expressway is something we don't need at all. I understand Nairobi-Mau Summit highway but hii hapana

If there's a feasibility study, it must've been done by the same Americans
Wa-TanoTena wamekula. d'oh!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
MugundaMan
#222 Posted : Tuesday, April 09, 2019 11:00:03 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,212
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
The expressway is not only highly needed it is inevitable from an economic perspective. Anyone who has slept on Mombasa road due to jam that blocked this corridor in the past can tell you that for free. It is funny how many argue that SGR is not "breaking even" yet are yet to tell us if Southern Bypass has "broken even" given zero shillings are collected from it yearly. Public goods like expressways and railways are not gauged by how they "break even" but by how much they create economic efficiencies and spillover benefits that are economy wide that add to GDP. Why do these Ferras think our economy has been growing at an average of 5% plus since 2002. From planting and selling beans? Has Sasumua dam broken even? What about Nyali bridge? The cabro pavements in the CBD, have they broken even or have they helped you walk more efficiently to work instead of wallowing in mud and spending extra money to get a shoe shine? Have the public footbridges on Mombasa road that cost hundreds of millions of shillings "broken even"? Tukiinya twetu tweli tuna tuwatu twa maanjabu tena Sana.
MugundaMan
#223 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2019 4:52:11 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,212
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
https://www.nation.co.ke...0m/996-5062668-bormo8z/

New Market for Kitengela encounters same woes as Ngong Market. Why do these traders love to delay the inevitable? A new market is in their interest and protests will just delay the benefits that will accrue to them. In Ngong they sabotaged the project for years. Thank God Ngong market - the largest in East and Central Africa - is finally rising up as we speak!
MugundaMan
#224 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2019 4:54:12 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,212
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
On a lighter note, DC is also the place of choice for national prayers and fasting, rogue pastors or performing said prayers and fasts notwithstanding.

https://www.tuko.co.ke/3...s-pray-kenya.html#302102
limanika
#225 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2019 8:48:13 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
MugundaMan wrote:
The expressway is not only highly needed it is inevitable from an economic perspective. Anyone who has slept on Mombasa road due to jam that blocked this corridor in the past can tell you that for free. It is funny how many argue that SGR is not "breaking even" yet are yet to tell us if Southern Bypass has "broken even" given zero shillings are collected from it yearly. Public goods like expressways and railways are not gauged by how they "break even" but by how much they create economic efficiencies and spillover benefits that are economy wide that add to GDP. Why do these Ferras think our economy has been growing at an average of 5% plus since 2002. From planting and selling beans? Has Sasumua dam broken even? What about Nyali bridge? The cabro pavements in the CBD, have they broken even or have they helped you walk more efficiently to work instead of wallowing in mud and spending extra money to get a shoe shine? Have the public footbridges on Mombasa road that cost hundreds of millions of shillings "broken even"? Tukiinya twetu tweli tuna tuwatu twa maanjabu tena Sana.

Ours is constructive criticism not blind optisim. We want to avoid the road srilanka and zambia have travelled. Do you know Zambia & Srilanka, with growth rates just about 5% and debt to GDP ratio just about 70% are facing debt repayment crisis after years of heavy borrowing? Do you know that not very long ago Ukraine defaulted on loan payment when their debt to GDP ratio was just 30%?

Do the math and tell us where our debt levels are headed when you add 300b for express way and 400 for SGR last mile.

We need govt to evaluate projects for feasibility before putting pen to paper, not just serving foreign interests. I like more what Ngilu and Kibwana are doing. Creating jobs. Its such that can help us borrow more and repay. FYI, Japan with growth rate of sub 2% and debt to GDP ratio above 200% (worse than zambia and srilanka to laymen) is still meeting its obligations coz of prudent management which is lacking this side of the world
nairobby
#226 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2019 12:49:31 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/18/2019
Posts: 185
Location: kenya
MugundaMan wrote:
The expressway is not only highly needed it is inevitable from an economic perspective. Anyone who has slept on Mombasa road due to jam that blocked this corridor in the past can tell you that for free. It is funny how many argue that SGR is not "breaking even" yet are yet to tell us if Southern Bypass has "broken even" given zero shillings are collected from it yearly. Public goods like expressways and railways are not gauged by how they "break even" but by how much they create economic efficiencies and spillover benefits that are economy wide that add to GDP. Why do these Ferras think our economy has been growing at an average of 5% plus since 2002. From planting and selling beans? Has Sasumua dam broken even? What about Nyali bridge? The cabro pavements in the CBD, have they broken even or have they helped you walk more efficiently to work instead of wallowing in mud and spending extra money to get a shoe shine? Have the public footbridges on Mombasa road that cost hundreds of millions of shillings "broken even"? Tukiinya twetu tweli tuna tuwatu twa maanjabu tena Sana.


1. SGR is going to cost a trillion shillings
2. It was touted as a project that would pay for itself, read the "feasibility report" that China itself did, which we now know was hogwash.
3. A 3rd world country borrowing that kind of money to build a railway (which is archaic technology anyway) while people die hungry and schools/hospitals are in a dire state is nonsensical at best.
4. Thika Road feasibility study explained what its economic benefits would be, essentially how it could explain its cost.
5. Research first and understand things, these are billion dollar projects not a cabro pavement to your house.
nairobby
#227 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2019 1:01:40 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/18/2019
Posts: 185
Location: kenya
Anyway, with regards to capital gains, I think the area to look at in DC is Tuala. It's the first town on SGR Phase 2A with a passenger station, <10 mins to Nairobi Terminus meaning easy access onward to Nairobi CBD. It's close to Rongai as well and the road infrastructure is set to improve. Entry price is lower than its environs.
Fyatu
#228 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2019 1:29:53 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/20/2011
Posts: 1,820
Location: Nakuru
nairobby wrote:
Anyway, with regards to capital gains, I think the area to look at in DC is Tuala. It's the first town on SGR Phase 2A with a passenger station, <10 mins to Nairobi Terminus meaning easy access onward to Nairobi CBD. It's close to Rongai as well and the road infrastructure is set to improve. Entry price is lower than its environs.



<10 minutes yes, but >2hrs on Mombasa rd. Traffic. Sometimes i wonder if the government ministers and permanent secretaries use their brains or bollocks(bums for the fairer sex) to thinks
Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
nairobby
#229 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2019 2:37:52 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/18/2019
Posts: 185
Location: kenya
Fyatu wrote:
nairobby wrote:
Anyway, with regards to capital gains, I think the area to look at in DC is Tuala. It's the first town on SGR Phase 2A with a passenger station, <10 mins to Nairobi Terminus meaning easy access onward to Nairobi CBD. It's close to Rongai as well and the road infrastructure is set to improve. Entry price is lower than its environs.



<10 minutes yes, but >2hrs on Mombasa rd. Traffic. Sometimes i wonder if the government ministers and permanent secretaries use their brains or bollocks(bums for the fairer sex) to thinks


There is a train from Nairobi Terminus(Syokimau) to Nairobi Railway station in CBD using the kawaida rail. No going on the road!
limanika
#230 Posted : Wednesday, April 10, 2019 2:43:27 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
Fyatu wrote:
nairobby wrote:
Anyway, with regards to capital gains, I think the area to look at in DC is Tuala. It's the first town on SGR Phase 2A with a passenger station, <10 mins to Nairobi Terminus meaning easy access onward to Nairobi CBD. It's close to Rongai as well and the road infrastructure is set to improve. Entry price is lower than its environs.



<10 minutes yes, but >2hrs on Mombasa rd. Traffic. Sometimes i wonder if the government ministers and permanent secretaries use their brains or bollocks(bums for the fairer sex) to thinks

There's something wrong with the way dynamic duo run govt. These are not the days when policy documents, feasibility studies would be developed by technocrats and then taken up the chain for approval / adoption. These days the projects are conceived at the top and work of ministry technocrats is reduced to tracking progress, no questions asked. All the structures built since independence on economic planning and public financial management have been turned upside down and replaced with nothing
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