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Other religious discourse
AlphDoti
#441 Posted : Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:09:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Muriel wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Muriel wrote:

So Allah saves. Are you saved, Alphdoti? Has Allah saved you?

@muriel, Salvation will come later, not now. On Judgement Day, I will know whether I will enter Paradise or not.

Even Jesus himself says so:
Matt 19:25 the disciples were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?"
Matt 19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, "WITH PEOPLE this is IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible."

So how will you get saved? By doing good
Quran 2:25 "And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow;"


So you will know whether you will enter paradise or not on judgement day. That is the day Allah will save you.

Was it judgement day when Allah saved Israelites from Pharaoh's people?

Was it judgement day when allah saved Jesus?

The answer is NO. It was not Judgment Day when Allah saved Israelite and Jesus.
¿
#442 Posted : Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:10:37 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/4/2015
Posts: 604
AlphDoti wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Quote:
There is Allah the God of Islam and there is Allah as a title for God.So Allah is a Moon God,God of pagans and polytheists.

Allah of Islam is not Yahweh of the Christians and Jews.Allah of Islam hates Christians and Jews because they worship Yahweh.

Applause al-ilah, the moon god worshipped at the kaaba

much like the Aembu conquering lands and making all of us worship the deity on top of the snow capped mountain

Muslims do not believe in worshiping idols or moon Gods.
Allah is the name of Almighty God in Arabic.
Ellah is the name of Almighty God in Aramaic the language of Jesus.
Elohim in Hebrew.

But the Christians make a man god.
Hindus make a cow and a snake and a monkey god.
Buddhists make a man god.

etc etc

It is only in Islam that we have God, the Creator, the Master of all things. Invisible and visible.


symbols wrote:
guru267 wrote:
symbols wrote:
guru267 wrote:
The Almighty hates two things the most.

1. Anyone who worships anything other than him (Majority of Christians except Jehovah's witnesses)

2. Anyone who does not recognize Jesus Christ as the Messiah (Jews)

@symbols do you agree?

Or did someone also fool you into thinking that the Messiah is Almighty?


John 3:16 wrote:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.



@symbols I didn't take you for the emotional type.

Since when does believing in the Messiah make him Almighty?

Muslims believe in the Messiah but he is not and will never be Almighty... The Almighty is ONE!

What do you understand by the word "begotten"??


I agree with you @guru267.Allah hates Jews and Christians because Allah has no sons and they don't recognize the Muslim Messiah(he isn't Jesus of the Bible).

Beget - To bring forth.

Isaiah 7:14 - Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6 - For to us a child is born,to us a son is given,and the government will be on his shoulders.And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:11 - I, even I, am the Yahweh; and beside me there is no saviour.I have revealed and saved and proclaimed—I, and not some foreign god among you.You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “that I am God.Yes, and from ancient days I am he.No one can deliver out of my hand.When I act, who can reverse it?”

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 - The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:15 - John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”

1 John 4:9-10 - This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
Muriel
#443 Posted : Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:30:58 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
AlphDoti wrote:
Muriel wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Muriel wrote:

So Allah saves. Are you saved, Alphdoti? Has Allah saved you?

@muriel, Salvation will come later, not now. On Judgement Day, I will know whether I will enter Paradise or not.

Even Jesus himself says so:
Matt 19:25 the disciples were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?"
Matt 19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, "WITH PEOPLE this is IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible."

So how will you get saved? By doing good
Quran 2:25 "And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow;"


So you will know whether you will enter paradise or not on judgement day. That is the day Allah will save you.

Was it judgement day when Allah saved Israelites from Pharaoh's people?

Was it judgement day when allah saved Jesus?

The answer is NO. It was not Judgment Day when Allah saved Israelite and Jesus.


So you do not have to wait until judgement day for Allah to save you.

Are you saved, Alphdoti, has Allah saved you?
AlphDoti
#444 Posted : Thursday, June 18, 2015 4:20:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Muriel wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Muriel wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Muriel wrote:

So Allah saves. Are you saved, Alphdoti? Has Allah saved you?

@muriel, Salvation will come later, not now. On Judgement Day, I will know whether I will enter Paradise or not.

Even Jesus himself says so:
Matt 19:25 the disciples were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?"
Matt 19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, "WITH PEOPLE this is IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible."

So how will you get saved? By doing good
Quran 2:25 "And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow;"


So you will know whether you will enter paradise or not on judgement day. That is the day Allah will save you.

Was it judgement day when Allah saved Israelites from Pharaoh's people?

Was it judgement day when allah saved Jesus?

The answer is NO. It was not Judgment Day when Allah saved Israelite and Jesus.

So you do not have to wait until judgement day for Allah to save you.

Are you saved, Alphdoti, has Allah saved you?

Define "saved"
Muriel
#445 Posted : Thursday, June 18, 2015 4:40:03 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
AlphDoti wrote:

Define "saved"


You don't know? I bring no new definition. I mean it just as it is used in the following passages.

AlphDoti wrote:


@muriel, you asked: Can Allah save?

Yes, of course! See examples below.

1. Allah saved the children of Israel from Pharaoh:
"O children of Israel! Remember those blessings of Mine with which I graced you, and how I favored you above all other people. And guard yourselves against a day when no soul will in aught avail another, nor will intercession be accepted from it, nor will compensation be received from it, nor will they be helped. And remember the time when We saved you from Pharaoh's people, who afflicted you with cruel suffering, slaughtering your sons and sparing only your women — which was an awesome trial from your Sustainer; and when We cleft the sea before you, and thus saved you and caused Pharaoh's people to drown before your very eyes." (Surah Baqarah ch 2:47-50)

2. Allah saved Jesus from the hands of his enemies, the Romans (conspired with Jews):
"And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah," but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of Jesus was put over another man (and they killed that man) and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no certain knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not (Jesus, son of Mary): But Allah raised him (Jesus) up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens).
And Allah is Ever All Powerful, All Wise.
" (Quran Ch 4:157-159)

Muriel
#446 Posted : Thursday, June 18, 2015 4:44:59 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
¿ wrote:
Muriel wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Muriel wrote:

So Allah saves. Are you saved, Alphdoti? Has Allah saved you?

@muriel, Salvation will come later, not now. On Judgement Day, I will know whether I will enter Paradise or not.

Even Jesus himself says so:
Matt 19:25 the disciples were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?"
Matt 19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, "WITH PEOPLE this is IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible."

So how will you get saved? By doing good
Quran 2:25 "And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow;"


So you will know whether you will enter paradise or not on judgement day. That is the day Allah will save you.

Was it judgement day when Allah saved Israelites from Pharaoh's people?

Was it judgement day when allah saved Jesus?


Can Allah save himself from Yahweh?


He has to agree first to the possibility of 'save'.

Help me convince him about that.
¿
#447 Posted : Thursday, June 18, 2015 4:57:16 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/4/2015
Posts: 604
Muriel wrote:
¿ wrote:
Muriel wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Muriel wrote:

So Allah saves. Are you saved, Alphdoti? Has Allah saved you?

@muriel, Salvation will come later, not now. On Judgement Day, I will know whether I will enter Paradise or not.

Even Jesus himself says so:
Matt 19:25 the disciples were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?"
Matt 19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, "WITH PEOPLE this is IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible."

So how will you get saved? By doing good
Quran 2:25 "And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow;"


So you will know whether you will enter paradise or not on judgement day. That is the day Allah will save you.

Was it judgement day when Allah saved Israelites from Pharaoh's people?

Was it judgement day when allah saved Jesus?


Can Allah save himself from Yahweh?


He has to agree first to the possibility of 'save'.

Help me convince him about that.


Laughing out loudly
guru267
#448 Posted : Thursday, June 18, 2015 6:54:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Muriel wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Muriel wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Muriel wrote:

So Allah saves. Are you saved, Alphdoti? Has Allah saved you?

@muriel, Salvation will come later, not now. On Judgement Day, I will know whether I will enter Paradise or not.

Even Jesus himself says so:
Matt 19:25 the disciples were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?"
Matt 19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, "WITH PEOPLE this is IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible."

So how will you get saved? By doing good
Quran 2:25 "And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow;"


So you will know whether you will enter paradise or not on judgement day. That is the day Allah will save you.

Was it judgement day when Allah saved Israelites from Pharaoh's people?

Was it judgement day when allah saved Jesus?

The answer is NO. It was not Judgment Day when Allah saved Israelite and Jesus.


So you do not have to wait until judgement day for Allah to save you.

Are you saved, Alphdoti, has Allah saved you?

It was the Almighty's will to save the Israelites and Christ.

What makes you think you can possibly know what the Almighty's next will is?
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Behemoth
#449 Posted : Thursday, June 18, 2015 11:31:20 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/7/2012
Posts: 180
@ AlphaDoti,

Dear Alphdoti,

I would like to respond to your article item by item but please tell me educate me on what "pbuh" means & its significance.

My response in black

1.
AlphDoti wrote:
Jesus (pbuh) puts it straight in Matt 21:42 that: "prophethood will be given to another people who will bring forth good results because Jews kept killing prophets".

R1: I believe you meant Matt 21:43: which says; “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.
NB: What will be taken away is the "kingdom of God" Not "prophethood". The to are different. Why did you mention "prophethood"?


Jesus (pbuh) tells them a day will come when they will not worship in Jerusalem. John 4:21.

Why? Because "...mnaabudu msichokijua"
Why? Because one day "... wale waabuduo halisi, watamwabudu Baba katika roho na kweli."

Now look at this: "Unabii Dhidi Ya Arabia" Isaiah 21:13.
Yaani "Neno kuhusu Arabia... katika vichaka vya Arabia".


R2: Arab is not only the region mentioned in the prophecies. Isaiah: 13-23,prophecies are listed for the following nations as well , Babylon,Assyria,Moab,Damascus,Egypt, Cush...


Isaiah 42:1-13 speaks of the beloved of God, a messenger who will bring down a law and "shall not fail nor be discouraged..."
Isaiah 42:11, connects that awaited one with the descendants of Ke'dar.
Who is Kedar?
According to Genesis 25:13, Ke'dar was the second son of Ishmael.
So which prophet was descended from Kedar, who descended from Ishmael?

R3: Please read the following carefully...

Doesn't Isaiah 42:1-4 & Isaiah 11:1-5 not speak of the same person?

Isn't that person a descendant of Jesse (Jesus)as per Isaiah 11:1-5 & NOT a descendant of Kedar (Muhammad)?

Now Let’s set the record straight.

First of all, Isaiah is a prophet whom the Qur’an NEVER mentioned by name, so how do Muslims actually know that he was one of the prophets since they also cling to the claim that the Bible is corrupt? According to Qur’an 2:79; muslim are subjected to eternal damnation for assuming things that Allah did not reveal, by suggesting that Isaiah 42 is from Allah.(if Isaiah was not a prophet),

Secondly, Isaiah was a prophet that explicitly prophesied the most about the coming Messiah. He talked about His virgin birth (Isaiah 7:14); His Deity – Immanuel, which means God with us (Isaiah 7:14), that He is a Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6-7); and His sacrificial death (Isaiah 53); which Islam completely denies.

So, how could this prophet (Isaiah) prophecy about a ‘supposed’ coming prophet (Muhammad), who would deny most of his prophecies; is beyond me!

Or, Muslims will have the answer which is, “Oh, all of his other prophecies are corrupted but this chapter 42 is definitely talking about Muhammad”.

Jesus said that He came to fulfil the law and the prophets (Matthew 5:17); thus we expect Him to fulfil Isaiah 42 if, indeed, He was telling the truth. So let’s see if Isaiah 42 if fulfilled in Him (Jesus):

Isaiah 42:1-4,

1 “Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,
and he will bring justice to the nations.

2 He will not shout or cry out,
or raise his voice in the streets.

3 A bruised reed he will not break,
and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out.
In faithfulness he will bring forth justice;

4 he will not falter or be discouraged
till he establishes justice on earth.
In his teaching the islands will put their hope.”

After Jesus healed a man on a Sabbath Day, the Pharisees conspired to kill Him but knowing what they planned to do to Him; Jesus didn’t confront them but rather simply left. When that happened, Matthew, quoting Isaiah 42:1-4, records:

14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him. 15 Jesus, perceiving that, withdrew from there. Great multitudes followed him; and he healed them all, 16 and commanded them that they should not make him known: 17 that it might BE FULFILLED which was spoken through ISAIAH THE PROPHET, saying, 18 “Behold, my servant whom I have chosen my beloved in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my Spirit on him. He will proclaim justice to the nations. 19 He will not strive, nor shout; neither will anyone hear his voice in the streets. 20 He won’t break a bruised reed. He won’t quench smoking flax, until he leads justice to victory. 21 In his name, the nations will hope.” – Matthew 12:14-21

Peter re-echoed this in his epistle,

22 Who (Jesus) did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously – 1Peter 2:22-23

A similar verse as Isaiah 42 is Isaiah 61 which was also fulfilled by Jesus in Luke 4:16-21,

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, this day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. – Luke 4:16-21

Did Muhammad keep quiet when people stood against him? I don’t think so; he killed anyone standing on his way.

In the same Isaiah 42, God said His name is Yahweh (Isaiah 42:8), which Muhammad NEVER mentioned, why is that?

As we see, Isaiah 42 was fulfilled by Jesus already, so it is impossible that Muhammad came to fulfil it. Muhammad denied some of Isaiah’s prophecies, namely the Deity of Christ and His sacrificial death as mentioned above. Therefore, he was a false prophet and Muslims are condemned by their god for believing something that didn’t come from him.

Jesus called Himself, the Seal of prophets – the Last to come:

Do not work for the food that disappears, but for the food that remains to eternal life – the food which the Son of Man will give to you. For God the Father has put HIS SEAL OF APPROVAL on him.” – John 6:27

A parable about Him being the last to come,

1 He began to speak to them in parables. “A man planted a vineyard, put a hedge around it, dug a pit for the wine press, built a tower, rented it out to a farmer, and went into another country. 2 When it was time, he sent a servant to the farmer to get from the farmer his share of the fruit of the vineyard. 3 They took him, beat him, and sent him away empty. 4 Again, he sent another servant to them; and they threw stones at him, wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully treated. 5 Again he sent another; and they killed him; and many others, beating some, and killing some. 6 Therefore STILL HAVING ONE, HIS BELOVED SON, HE SENT HIM LAST to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 7 But those farmers said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’ 8 They took him, killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard.– Mark 12:1-8

The servants that were sent before the Son (Jesus) were the prophets. Jesus is the Son of God whom He sent last. No wonder the book of revelation records:

18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book, IF ANYONE ADDS to them, may God add to him the plagues which are written in this book. 19 IF ANYONE TAKES AWAY from the words of the book of this prophecy, may God take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book. – Revelation 22:18-19

Muhammad is a false prophet; he can never be the servant of God mentioned by Isaiah. He denied Jesus as the Son of God and God as Father. The Bible calls that type of person an antichrist and liar:

Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, HE WHO DENIES the Father and the Son. – 1 John 2:22

[/color]

Jesus said: "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter..." John 14:16
Jesus said: "I must go away, for the comforter to come unto you..." John 16:7
Jesus said: "I have yet many things to say unto you... but you cannot listen to me now... but when he comes, he will guide you unto all truth" John 16:12-14
[/color]
NOTE: the holy Spirit has always been there
Before Jesus was born: Luke 1:15, Luke 1:41, 1:67.
During Jesus time: Luke 2:26, Luke 3:22, Matt 12:28, Luke 11:20.



AlphDoti wrote:
Muriel wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Muriel wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Muriel wrote:

So Allah saves. Are you saved, Alphdoti? Has Allah saved you?

@muriel, Salvation will come later, not now. On Judgement Day, I will know whether I will enter Paradise or not.

Even Jesus himself says so:
Matt 19:25 the disciples were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?"
Matt 19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, "WITH PEOPLE this is IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible."

So how will you get saved? By doing good
Quran 2:25 "And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow;"


So you will know whether you will enter paradise or not on judgement day. That is the day Allah will save you.

Was it judgement day when Allah saved Israelites from Pharaoh's people?

Was it judgement day when allah saved Jesus?

The answer is NO. It was not Judgment Day when Allah saved Israelite and Jesus.

So you do not have to wait until judgement day for Allah to save you.

Are you saved, Alphdoti, has Allah saved you?

Define "saved"

Eagles don't flock, you have to find them one at a time.
murchr
#450 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2015 5:37:13 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Muriel
#451 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2015 7:54:17 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
guru267 wrote:
Muriel wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Muriel wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Muriel wrote:

So Allah saves. Are you saved, Alphdoti? Has Allah saved you?

@muriel, Salvation will come later, not now. On Judgement Day, I will know whether I will enter Paradise or not.

Even Jesus himself says so:
Matt 19:25 the disciples were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?"
Matt 19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, "WITH PEOPLE this is IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible."

So how will you get saved? By doing good
Quran 2:25 "And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow;"


So you will know whether you will enter paradise or not on judgement day. That is the day Allah will save you.

Was it judgement day when Allah saved Israelites from Pharaoh's people?

Was it judgement day when allah saved Jesus?

The answer is NO. It was not Judgment Day when Allah saved Israelite and Jesus.


So you do not have to wait until judgement day for Allah to save you.

Are you saved, Alphdoti, has Allah saved you?

It was the Almighty's will to save the Israelites and Christ.

What makes you think you can possibly know what the Almighty's next will is?


All I am asking is his followers believe that he saves. Do you, Guru, sister, believe that Allah saves? If you do believe he saves, has he saved you? Are you saved?
guru267
#452 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2015 9:04:43 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Muriel wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Muriel wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Muriel wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Muriel wrote:

So Allah saves. Are you saved, Alphdoti? Has Allah saved you?

@muriel, Salvation will come later, not now. On Judgement Day, I will know whether I will enter Paradise or not.

Even Jesus himself says so:
Matt 19:25 the disciples were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?"
Matt 19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, "WITH PEOPLE this is IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible."

So how will you get saved? By doing good
Quran 2:25 "And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow;"


So you will know whether you will enter paradise or not on judgement day. That is the day Allah will save you.

Was it judgement day when Allah saved Israelites from Pharaoh's people?

Was it judgement day when allah saved Jesus?

The answer is NO. It was not Judgment Day when Allah saved Israelite and Jesus.


So you do not have to wait until judgement day for Allah to save you.

Are you saved, Alphdoti, has Allah saved you?

It was the Almighty's will to save the Israelites and Christ.

What makes you think you can possibly know what the Almighty's next will is?


All I am asking is his followers believe that he saves. Do you, Guru, sister, believe that Allah saves? If you do believe he saves, has he saved you? Are you saved?


I do not believe that my sins are already pre forgiven if that what being saved means...

No single Muslim can believe such nonsense.

I believe that if the Almighty wills Christ will return to take away sin from the world and I believe that if my repentance is sincere then the Almighty is all merciful
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Muriel
#453 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2015 10:40:36 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
guru267 wrote:


I do not believe that my sins are already pre forgiven if that what being saved means...

No single Muslim can believe such nonsense.

I believe that if the Almighty wills Christ will return to take away sin from the world and I believe that if my repentance is sincere then the Almighty is all merciful



Guru, sister, alas you answer a question no one asked! Does saved mean pre forgiven? I had no idea! But your answer offers no resolution to my question.

Does it then mean that Allah pre-forgave the Israelites when he was saving them from Pharaoh's people? Or did he pre-forgive the boy whom Abraham was to sacrifice? Or did he pre-forgive Jesus? Why then can you not believe the simple truth of what Allah did? Mohammed says Allah saved them ,,,

What exactly did Allah do? Does Allah save?

Can any muslim tell me if Allah saves and if they believe they are saved?
AlphDoti
#454 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2015 10:56:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Muriel wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:

Define "saved"


You don't know? I bring no new definition. I mean it just as it is used in the following passages.

AlphDoti wrote:


@muriel, you asked: Can Allah save?

Yes, of course! See examples below.

1. Allah saved the children of Israel from Pharaoh:
"O children of Israel! Remember those blessings of Mine with which I graced you, and how I favored you above all other people. And guard yourselves against a day when no soul will in aught avail another, nor will intercession be accepted from it, nor will compensation be received from it, nor will they be helped. And remember the time when We saved you from Pharaoh's people, who afflicted you with cruel suffering, slaughtering your sons and sparing only your women — which was an awesome trial from your Sustainer; and when We cleft the sea before you, and thus saved you and caused Pharaoh's people to drown before your very eyes." (Surah Baqarah ch 2:47-50)

2. Allah saved Jesus from the hands of his enemies, the Romans (conspired with Jews):
"And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah," but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of Jesus was put over another man (and they killed that man) and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no certain knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not (Jesus, son of Mary): But Allah raised him (Jesus) up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens).
And Allah is Ever All Powerful, All Wise.
" (Quran Ch 4:157-159)


@muriel, still you've not defined it. Because I see we are not talking about the same thing. So define it.
AlphDoti
#455 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2015 11:20:07 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Muriel wrote:
guru267 wrote:


I do not believe that my sins are already pre forgiven if that what being saved means...

No single Muslim can believe such nonsense.

I believe that if the Almighty wills Christ will return to take away sin from the world and I believe that if my repentance is sincere then the Almighty is all merciful



Guru, sister, alas you answer a question no one asked! Does saved mean pre forgiven? I had no idea! But your answer offers no resolution to my question.

Does it then mean that Allah pre-forgave the Israelites when he was saving them from Pharaoh's people? Or did he pre-forgive the boy whom Abraham was to sacrifice? Or did he pre-forgive Jesus? Why then can you not believe the simple truth of what Allah did? Mohammed says Allah saved them ,,,

What exactly did Allah do? Does Allah save?

Can any muslim tell me if Allah saves and if they believe they are saved?

@guru said "I do not believe that my sins are already pre forgiven if that what being saved means.."

She asks if that is what you mean by "being saved".

You see, you have to define what you mean if you are genuinely looking for an answer.
guru267
#456 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2015 11:29:06 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Muriel wrote:
guru267 wrote:


I do not believe that my sins are already pre forgiven if that what being saved means...

No single Muslim can believe such nonsense.

I believe that if the Almighty wills Christ will return to take away sin from the world and I believe that if my repentance is sincere then the Almighty is all merciful



Guru, sister, alas you answer a question no one asked! Does saved mean pre forgiven? I had no idea! But your answer offers no resolution to my question.

Does it then mean that Allah pre-forgave the Israelites when he was saving them from Pharaoh's people? Or did he pre-forgive the boy whom Abraham was to sacrifice? Or did he pre-forgive Jesus? Why then can you not believe the simple truth of what Allah did? Mohammed says Allah saved them ,,,

What exactly did Allah do? Does Allah save?

Can any muslim tell me if Allah saves and if they believe they are saved?


The Israelites were saved from enslavement. Christ was saved from death. Why do I need to be saved?

And if I need to be saved, is it the Almighty's will that i be saved?

The Almighty does not have a duty to any human being.
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Muriel
#457 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2015 12:18:33 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142

AlphDoti wrote:

@muriel, still you've not defined it. Because I see we are not talking about the same thing. So define it.



AlphDoti wrote:

@guru said "I do not believe that my sins are already pre forgiven if that what being saved means.."

She asks if that is what you mean by "being saved".

You see, you have to define what you mean if you are genuinely looking for an answer.



I decline the task of defining a word that Allah uses not once, not twice but severally in the Qur'an. It is not my job. I'm not Allah's scribe.

Allah, Mohammed or you his followers should be able to tell and explain what it means.

Whatever the meaning, my question is whether you believe Allah or not. Allah says clearly he saved some people yet you cannot believe that he saves people.

Muriel
#458 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2015 12:24:05 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
guru267 wrote:


The Israelites were saved from enslavement. Christ was saved from death. Why do I need to be saved?

And if I need to be saved, is it the Almighty's will that i be saved?

The Almighty does not have a duty to any human being.


I have not asked from what they were saved. Neither have I asked why you need to be saved.

All I am asking is whether you believe Allah saves and if you are saved.

But from your rhetorical questions you seem to imply whereas it is true that Allah saved others (from whatever), you do not believe that Allah can save you.

Unless you have anything to add, I will end my questions to you and accept your answer.

I turn to Alphdoti for he has not given any indication if he believes Allah or not.
Lolest!
#459 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2015 12:24:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Quote:
So how will you get saved? By doing good
Quran 2:25 "And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow;"

So it is possible that if our atheist friend hamburglar is doing good works that then he is saved?
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Muriel
#460 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2015 12:35:39 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
Lolest! wrote:
Quote:
So how will you get saved? By doing good
Quran 2:25 "And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow;"

So it is possible that if our atheist friend hamburglar is doing good works that then he is saved?


But Guru says Allah does not have duty to any human being. So Hamburglar can do all the good things but in the end Allah might discard him like used tissue.

Hence Qur'an 2:25 might not be true after all and should not be anticipated to be reality.
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