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mwenza
#221 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2015 3:02:33 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/22/2009
Posts: 2,863
nakujua wrote:
but is it really about the youth system it certainly plays a role but why don't we see Mali and Nigeria doing well at the senior world cup, I think their under 17 teams are always at the top of the world.

I am sure England must have some crazy youth facilities, I think its more in discovering willing talent, and that needs a search all over the country, not specific areas.


Never trust the West Africans when it comes to those age group competitions. More often than not the age indicated on the birth certificate is never authentic.
IF YOU EXPECT ME TO POST ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT ASENO, YOU MAY AS WELL SIT ON A PIN
Alba
#222 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2015 3:46:38 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
TAZ wrote:


MYSA is the largest youth sports organization in Africa with over 1000 teams and 14,000 players. They have leagues from age 10 to 18 years and they regularly participate in the largest youth football tournament in the world (Norway Cup) which they've actually won a couple of times. A huge number of the players we have are products of MYSA.

What we need is to support such initiatives and encourage clubs such as Gor, AFC, Tusker etc to have similar youth systems.


I am sorry but MYSA is a joke that has been perpetrated on Kenyans for more than 25 years now. MYSA has produced very few good players in the past few years and no MYSA product has succeeded in Europe.

The best measure of a succesful youth systems is whether your products succeed when they attend trials in Europe. MYSA has an abysmal record in this regard. This means they are doing a shoddy job of developing players.

Norway cup is a backyard tournament where MYSA teams play against teams made of kids from rich families. They do not go there to play the Manchester United U15 team or even the Ipswich town U12 team. They play against kids who just play for leisure.

Having youth leagues is good but it is not the issue. The key is to have structured youth development where coaches impart proper technique and tactical awareness to young players. Some things can only be learned when you are young.

As an example, if a child is forced to use their left foot when they 6 or 7 years old, then by the time they are 18, using their left foot will be completely natural. It becomes part of your muscle memory.

Alba
#223 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2015 3:52:05 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
nakujua wrote:
but is it really about the youth system it certainly plays a role but why don't we see Mali and Nigeria doing well at the senior world cup, I think their under 17 teams are always at the top of the world.

I am sure England must have some crazy youth facilities, I think its more in discovering willing talent, and that needs a search all over the country, not specific areas.


1. Many Nigerian players are over-age. The legendary Philip Osondu who was named as the next Pele was 25 when he played in a U17 tournament. Not much has changed today.

2. Nigeria does indeed have better youth structures than Kenya. But their youth structures pale in comparison to France, Spain, Holland, Germany , Brazil etc.

In Germany for example, every team in the 1st and 2nd tier have youth teams from U12, U14, U17 and U19. This means no talent will fall through the cracks. The German federation also regularly monitors and performs quality assurance on all the youth programs.

Read how Germany went from bust to boom by investing in youth development

Alba
#224 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2015 4:00:04 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
TAZ wrote:
[quote=Alba]@kaka2za

What we need is to support such initiatives and encourage clubs such as Gor, AFC, Tusker etc to have similar youth systems.


Kenyans should be supporting local clubs. But the government can also step in and assist local clubs. Just start by providing the top teams a permanent training ground. Most Kenyan players in the top league do not even have access to a training ground for more than 3 to 4 hours a day.
nakujua
#225 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2015 4:15:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
Alba wrote:
TAZ wrote:


MYSA is the largest youth sports organization in Africa with over 1000 teams and 14,000 players. They have leagues from age 10 to 18 years and they regularly participate in the largest youth football tournament in the world (Norway Cup) which they've actually won a couple of times. A huge number of the players we have are products of MYSA.

What we need is to support such initiatives and encourage clubs such as Gor, AFC, Tusker etc to have similar youth systems.


I am sorry but MYSA is a joke that has been perpetrated on Kenyans for more than 25 years now. MYSA has produced very few good players in the past few years and no MYSA product has succeeded in Europe.

The best measure of a succesful youth systems is whether your products succeed when they attend trials in Europe. MYSA has an abysmal record in this regard. This means they are doing a shoddy job of developing players.

Norway cup is a backyard tournament where MYSA teams play against teams made of kids from rich families. They do not go there to play the Manchester United U15 team or even the Ipswich town U12 team. They play against kids who just play for leisure.

Having youth leagues is good but it is not the issue. The key is to have structured youth development where coaches impart proper technique and tactical awareness to young players. Some things can only be learned when you are young.

As an example, if a child is forced to use their left foot when they 6 or 7 years old, then by the time they are 18, using their left foot will be completely natural. It becomes part of your muscle memory.


Then we need to go back to Kamkunji high school and study what they do - it might be a coincidence, but the biggest names in kenya football passed huko. I remember when I still had the strength to kick around a ball, in the late 90's and possible earlier it was said that them and ofafa admitted some students for their footballing prowess.

Which I think is a good thing that should be adopted by other high schools especially the national school, since thats where as a country of 40m, we have found prudent to dump all the resources - a stupid thing that we seem comfortable with.
nakujua
#226 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2015 4:17:20 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
Alba wrote:
TAZ wrote:
[quote=Alba]@kaka2za

What we need is to support such initiatives and encourage clubs such as Gor, AFC, Tusker etc to have similar youth systems.


Kenyans should be supporting local clubs. But the government can also step in and assist local clubs. Just start by providing the top teams a permanent training ground. Most Kenyan players in the top league do not even have access to a training ground for more than 3 to 4 hours a day.

Sep Blatter and his cronies refused hiyo mambo ya government in football. It the government were to even glance towards football - that would be an immediate ban.
TAZ
#227 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2015 4:21:03 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/14/2007
Posts: 4,152
Alba wrote:

I am sorry but MYSA is a joke that has been perpetrated on Kenyans for more than 25 years now. MYSA has produced very few good players in the past few years and no MYSA product has succeeded in Europe.

The best measure of a succesful youth systems is whether your products succeed when they attend trials in Europe. MYSA has an abysmal record in this regard. This means they are doing a shoddy job of developing players.



Oliech, Mariga, Jamal Mohammed, Robert Mambo, Mulama brothers and many other former Kenya internationals are products of MYSA. I don't think some of them would have made it without the MYSA leagues.....most of them actually joined MYSA when they were about 11-13 yrs old.

Ivory Coast's Asec Mimosas youth system has produced the likes of Yaya Toure, Kolo, Kalou, Gervinho and many others. Kenya Premier league clubs should be encouraged to incorporate youth development systems and academies. Apart from MYSA I think Thika Utd also have a decent youth system funded by Brookside.

Some of our teams sign young players then promote them to the senior level too quickly because they don't have a youth dev set-up.
Alba
#228 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2015 4:36:43 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/27/2012
Posts: 2,256
Location: Bandalungwa
nakujua wrote:



Then we need to go back to Kamkunji high school and study what they do - it might be a coincidence, but the biggest names in kenya football passed huko. I remember when I still had the strength to kick around a ball, in the late 90's and possible earlier it was said that them and ofafa admitted some students for their footballing prowess.

Which I think is a good thing that should be adopted by other high schools especially the national school, since thats where as a country of 40m, we have found prudent to dump all the resources - a stupid thing that we seem comfortable with.


Kamkunji simply recruited the best players available.

Dennis Oliech is an exceptional player. He had what I would classify as sprinter speed. They say when he was young, he could run 100m in 10.5 sec. In fact at one point he was the fastst player in the FIFA video game.

However Oliech was not fundamentally sound. When he arrived in Europe, the fans and coaches noted that though he was talented, his talents were not refined i.e very raw. His passing and shooting were not accurate as they should be.

If Oliech had attended a decent football academy, then with his talents, he would have become a world class player.

By the way:

Kakamega high is the school that has the most superstars. They did it for the most part by recruiting good players away from other schools.
nakujua
#229 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2015 4:48:12 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
Alba wrote:
nakujua wrote:

Then we need to go back to Kamkunji high school and study what they do - it might be a coincidence, but the biggest names in kenya football passed huko. I remember when I still had the strength to kick around a ball, in the late 90's and possible earlier it was said that them and ofafa admitted some students for their footballing prowess.

Which I think is a good thing that should be adopted by other high schools especially the national school, since thats where as a country of 40m, we have found prudent to dump all the resources - a stupid thing that we seem comfortable with.


Kamkunji simply recruited the best players available.

Dennis Oliech is an exceptional player. He had what I would classify as sprinter speed. They say when he was young, he could run 100m in 10.5 sec. In fact at one point he was the fastst player in the FIFA video game.

However Oliech was not fundamentally sound. When he arrived in Europe, the fans and coaches noted that though he was talented, his talents were not refined i.e very raw. His passing and shooting were not accurate as they should be.

If Oliech had attended a decent football academy, then with his talents, he would have become a world class player.

By the way:

Kakamega high is the school that has the most superstars. They did it for the most part by recruiting good players away from other schools.

I think we really need to look at improving the high school football system then, maybe have a season long league at the high school level, not the term games that they do - have a proper high school league - like they do in the states for their football.

Then carry the same to college/universities - in kenya kids are under pressure to be in school and perform, so initiatives like mysa or club youth teams might not work well since the teenagers are in boarding schools for the better part of the year.
TAZ
#230 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2015 4:52:26 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/14/2007
Posts: 4,152
Perhaps we should think of engaging someone like Peter Orero (Upper Hill Principal) who has tapped and nurtured many top footballers. He's the one who brought Oliech, Mariga, Jerry Santos, Patrick Oboya, Jamal Mohamed, Geoffrey Kokoyo to Kamukunji Secondary School. He has now turned Upper Hill school into Nairobi's football champions and they are also one of the best in basketball.
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