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Law Capping interest rates
obiero
#421 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2016 9:18:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,502
Location: nairobi
FRM2011 wrote:
This tweet from Jimnah Mbaru has left me confused.

"Let me be very clear about this subject. We need to control the level of interest rates charged by banks. Capping is very good for Kenya".

It doesn't matter what Jimnah thinks. This one is a done deal

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
FRM2011
#422 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2016 9:25:08 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,459
obiero wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:
This tweet from Jimnah Mbaru has left me confused.

"Let me be very clear about this subject. We need to control the level of interest rates charged by banks. Capping is very good for Kenya".

It doesn't matter what Jimnah thinks. This one is a done deal



@obiero, am trying to join dots here. Jimnah is a very shrewd businessman. He is heavily invested in Equity bank. Should the bill be signed, he would take a very big hit in his portfolio.

So where is the catch ? Could it be that these guys have figured out a way to screw wanjiku once again ?

Have the bill signed, share prices drop massively, wanjiku panics and sells, these guys accumulate at rock bottom prices, re-model the business, and be back in 2-3 years.
obiero
#423 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2016 9:32:26 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,502
Location: nairobi
FRM2011 wrote:
obiero wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:
This tweet from Jimnah Mbaru has left me confused.

"Let me be very clear about this subject. We need to control the level of interest rates charged by banks. Capping is very good for Kenya".

It doesn't matter what Jimnah thinks. This one is a done deal



@obiero, am trying to join dots here. Jimnah is a very shrewd businessman. He is heavily invested in Equity bank. Should the bill be signed, he would take a very big hit in his portfolio.

So where is the catch ? Could it be that these guys have figured out a way to screw wanjiku once again ?

Have the bill signed, share prices drop massively, wanjiku panics and sells, these guys accumulate at rock bottom prices, re-model the business, and be back in 2-3 years.

One thing should be clear as Fitch disclosed yesterday. Small banks will have to consolidate. That will mean maximum of about 20 banks remaining in the near future.. Tier 1s will thrive on economies of scale. Finally, note that the president cannot decline the bill but only RTS to buy time. Banks are damned

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
MaichBlack
#424 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2016 9:50:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
enyands wrote:
Spikes wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
If Uhuru was worried about re-election, he would not introduced/increased taxes on everything and anything! Things even Moi would NEVER dare tax like medicine, books, electricity/power, juice, bottled water, electric cigarettes (For those trying to quit smoking to avoid cancer and other diseases) etc.

The taxes UhuRuto have introduced/increased are far much more damaging to the pockets of Kenyans than interest rates. And those taxes affect every single Kenyan (every day!!!) and unlike loans, they are not avoidable. And guess what, they were passed and signed into law without batting an eyelid!!! Why?? UhuRuto don't believe they have a realistic opponent. And that is the problem with Kenya. We should always have a strong and realistic opponent so that the government of the day knows that any misstep might lead to them losing power.

Of course I am not saying the bill should be signed for political reasons because it is a stupid bill and signing it would be stupid. I am just saying, those who expect Uhuru to sign it to get votes next year are day dreaming!! Raila's supporters will never vote for Uhuru because he signed the bill. Uhuru's supporters will never vote for Raila because Uhuru did not sign the bill. And the independent minds in between who don't fanatically support either of the two don't have much choice/options. The Muhisa Kituyis, Peter Kenneths, Rafael Tujus of this world don't stand a chance in this messed up political landscape of ours!!!



Let the bill be signed. We want to see a meltdown on financials enabling us low entry for speculation.


Laughing out loudly shrewd investors wewe,you are greedy when all are fearful

Nothing shrewd there! And no investor in place. The last word actually says speculation
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
MaichBlack
#425 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2016 9:55:24 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
Naona kuna watu watapata heart attack hapa. They are so convinced. But at least some (I will not mention names smile) are used to major (and repeated) shocks.

Lesson One: When someone delays to take an action (like signing a bill) that should communicate something to you by itself.

Lesson Two: When the (extremely respected) Governor of Central Bank not only verbally says why he is against rates capping but also writes an elaborate article for a newspaper on the same, it is time to start reading between the lines.

Lesson Three: When TNA's Chairman, Johnson Sakaja starts defending the President for not signing the bill (even before it is official) explaining that there is nowhere in the TNA manifesto they promised to cap rates then it is time to wake up and smell the coffee.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Njung'e
#426 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2016 10:09:37 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
I really want to see this capping become law but......Uhuru will simply send this thing back to parliament with some recommendations probably drawn from the banks mou or even drafted by the banks themselves....Mistake No. 1.....Politics will kick in. RAO will have got the perfect opportunity to rope in MDV into his camp. Mpigs from across the divide will also gang up to ensure the capping becomes a reality......This is likely to happen after parliament recess early next year....This are not my thoughts!!!!
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
obiero
#427 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2016 10:13:46 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,502
Location: nairobi
Njung'e wrote:
I really want to see this capping become law but......Uhuru will simply send this thing back to parliament with some recommendations probably drawn from the banks mou or even drafted by the banks themselves....Mistake No. 1.....Politics will kick in. RAO will have got the perfect opportunity to rope in MDV into his camp. Mpigs from across the divide will also gang up to ensure the capping becomes a reality......This is likely to happen after parliament recess early next year....This are not my thoughts!!!!

At guka your thoughts are worth money. That is likely to happen. Meanwhile, no serious SME shall borrow at current rates since a lower one is on the way

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
Swenani
#428 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2016 10:49:20 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
MaichBlack wrote:
Naona kuna watu watapata heart attack hapa. There are so convinced. But at least some (I will not mention names smile) are used to major (and repeated) shocks.

Lesson One: When someone delays to take an action (like signing a bill) that should communicate something to you by itself.

Lesson Two: When the (extremely respected) Governor of Central Bank not only verbally says why he is against rates capping but also writes an elaborate article for a newspaper on the same, it is time to start reading between the lines.

Lesson Three: When TNA's Chairman, Johnson Sakaja starts defending the President for not signing the bill (even before it is official) explaining that there is nowhere in the TNA manifesto they promised to cap rates then it is time to wake up and smell the coffee.



If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
MaichBlack
#429 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2016 12:03:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
Swenani wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Naona kuna watu watapata heart attack hapa. There are so convinced. But at least some (I will not mention names smile) are used to major (and repeated) shocks.

Lesson One: When someone delays to take an action (like signing a bill) that should communicate something to you by itself.

Lesson Two: When the (extremely respected) Governor of Central Bank not only verbally says why he is against rates capping but also writes an elaborate article for a newspaper on the same, it is time to start reading between the lines.

Lesson Three: When TNA's Chairman, Johnson Sakaja starts defending the President for not signing the bill (even before it is official) explaining that there is nowhere in the TNA manifesto they promised to cap rates then it is time to wake up and smell the coffee.




Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
MaichBlack
#430 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2016 12:15:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
Njung'e wrote:
I really want to see this capping become law but......Uhuru will simply send this thing back to parliament with some recommendations probably drawn from the banks mou or even drafted by the banks themselves....Mistake No. 1.....Politics will kick in. RAO will have got the perfect opportunity to rope in MDV into his camp. Mpigs from across the divide will also gang up to ensure the capping becomes a reality......This is likely to happen after parliament recess early next year....This are not my thoughts!!!!

Even Raila in his right mind would never sign the bill. But for political reason he will push Uhuru to sign to put him in an compromising position. If he signs and sh!t hits the fan, he will go down as the president who ruined the country's financial sector against the advice of his own Finance Secretary and Governor of Central Bank. If he doesn't sign, then there is something to repeat to the masses over and over - that they are in sh!t coz the president refused to sign the bill.

This is a classical Donald Trump moment. He kept insisting that Obama should pull out all the troops from Iraq "by yesterday" and leave them to build their own country. Obama pulled out the troops (Not because of the Donald), sh!t hit the fan and now Trump is using it against him - calling him the founder of ISIS because he withdrew troops from Iraq and ISIS had a field day.

MPs ganging up??? Highly unlikely. Jubilee MPs will be given a (private) lecture on why they cannot show open rebellion to the president. They will most probably leave the Parliament just before voting - especially the ones that have openly supported the bill. Come October, people will be discussing something else. As someone correctly pointed out, memory ya wakenya ni ile ile.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
aemathenge
#431 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2016 12:16:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
@Guru267, my online Sweet heart, you are the love of my Wazua life and I desperately want to feel you, Dear.

I am not feeling you with this matter.

Please indulge me as I open my heart.

Jaindi Kisero is a man I bow to in deep respect where financial issues, as reported in our dailies, feature.

He has just insinuated, in my opinion, that His Excellency the President is foolish and incompetent in the management of the financial affairs of this Our Land and Nation. LINK

He goes on to list a number of avenues that manifest this foolhardy and incompetence in his opinion and analysis article in the Business Daily.

He hides these avenues in a list of ultimatums His Excellency must achieve within the next six months to fix the financial state of this Our Land and Nation.

He further laments that were it not for the man from Opus Dei, the financials of this Our Land and Nation would be in deep codswallop.

I therefore look at the manifest drivel that is the (N)Jomo Bill as merely a whip rash on His Excellency the President for messing up the Finances.

The Right Honourable Raila Odinga will raise the expected tantrum.

The results of this tantrum will be rubble rousers invading the Down Towns of our major urban centres circa Operation Erections Commissioners Must Go.

I need not elaborate what happens to our economy as a result.

I therefore look at your words herein under as of those uttered by a battered wife who remains in the marriage because of the children or whatever warped reason battered wives remain in dysfunctional relationships.

guru267 wrote:
This will however not change the fact that this bill will not be signed,

RAO and crew will jump up and down with tantrums and

Uhunye will still win the 2017 elections


Why would you want Uhuru Kenyatta to continue this incompetency and foolhardiness for another five-year term?

Please enlighten me so that I can feel you.
guru267
#432 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2016 12:48:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
aemathenge wrote:
@Guru267, my online Sweet heart, you are the love of my Wazua life and I desperately want to feel you, Dear.

I am not feeling you with this matter.

Please indulge me as I open my heart.

Jaindi Kisero is a man I bow to in deep respect where financial issues, as reported in our dailies, feature.

He has just insinuated, in my opinion, that His Excellency the President is foolish and incompetent in the management of the financial affairs of this Our Land and Nation. LINK

He goes on to list a number of avenues that manifest this foolhardy and incompetence in his opinion and analysis article in the Business Daily.

He hides these avenues in a list of ultimatums His Excellency must achieve within the next six months to fix the financial state of this Our Land and Nation.

He further laments that were it not for the man from Opus Dei, the financials of this Our Land and Nation would be in deep codswallop.

I therefore look at the manifest drivel that is the (N)Jomo Bill as merely a whip rash on His Excellency the President for messing up the Finances.

The Right Honourable Raila Odinga will raise the expected tantrum.

The results of this tantrum will be rubble rousers invading the Down Towns of our major urban centres circa Operation Erections Commissioners Must Go.

I need not elaborate what happens to our economy as a result.

I therefore look at your words herein under as of those uttered by a battered wife who remains in the marriage because of the children or whatever warped reason battered wives remain in dysfunctional relationships.

guru267 wrote:
This will however not change the fact that this bill will not be signed,

RAO and crew will jump up and down with tantrums and

Uhunye will still win the 2017 elections


Why would you want Uhuru Kenyatta to continue this incompetency and foolhardiness for another five-year term?

Please enlighten me so that I can feel you.


Clearly you are an idealist and I'm a realist...

I have not said that I want RAO to throw tantrums when this bill is thrown out but the reality is that he will.

I do not necessarily want Uhunye to win the next election but the the reality is that he will.
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
aemathenge
#433 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2016 1:01:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
guru267 wrote:
Clearly you are an idealist and I'm a realist...

I have not said that I want RAO to throw tantrums when this bill is thrown out but the reality is that he will.

I do not necessarily want Uhunye to win the next election but the the reality is that he will.

I

Feel

You.
Njung'e
#434 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2016 1:02:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
MaichBlack wrote:
Njung'e wrote:
I really want to see this capping become law but......Uhuru will simply send this thing back to parliament with some recommendations probably drawn from the banks mou or even drafted by the banks themselves....Mistake No. 1.....Politics will kick in. RAO will have got the perfect opportunity to rope in MDV into his camp. Mpigs from across the divide will also gang up to ensure the capping becomes a reality......This is likely to happen after parliament recess early next year....This are not my thoughts!!!!

Even Raila in his right mind would never sign the bill. But for political reason he will push Uhuru to sign to put him in an compromising position. If he signs and sh!t hits the fan, he will go down as the president who ruined the country's financial sector against the advice of his own Finance Secretary and Governor of Central Bank. If he doesn't sign, then there is something to repeat to the masses over and over - that they are in sh!t coz the president refused to sign the bill.

This is a classical Donald Trump moment. He kept insisting that Obama should pull out all the troops from Iraq "by yesterday" and leave them to build their own country. Obama pulled out the troops (Not because of the Donald), sh!t hit the fan and now Trump is using it against him - calling him the founder of ISIS because he withdrew troops from Iraq and ISIS had a field day.

MPs ganging up??? Highly unlikely. Jubilee MPs will be given a (private) lecture on why they cannot show open rebellion to the president. They will most probably leave the Parliament just before voting - especially the ones that have openly supported the bill. Come October, people will be discussing something else. As someone correctly pointed out, memory ya wakenya ni ile ile.


@Maich,

You are clearly so much against capping even though you haven't given solid reasons for your case. To be honest,you've been more vocal than the Opus Dei man and Felix, who have already admitted the banks can do more to lower interest rates.Indeed, much of your arguments make you seem like a heir apparent to Mwangi or some serious bank shareholder. Who knows, it could be Memba's chair is your uncle or something like that.smile. On the flipside, you may want to dismiss the kind of stick Jomo will hand over to RAO but i will not. It may turn out to be more than a stick.

@Wazuans,

How do our interest rates compare with those of our region/continent?. Anyone?




Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
Ericsson
#435 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2016 2:20:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,678
Location: NAIROBI
http://www.bloomberg.com...e-making-too-much-profit
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
enyands
#436 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2016 3:22:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,300
Location: kenya
I miss Kibaki regime
KulaRaha
#437 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2016 3:53:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,514
enyands wrote:
I miss Kibaki regime


Most non tenderprenuer types do.
Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
Much Know
#438 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2016 5:22:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,548
Njung'e wrote:

@Wazuans,
How do our interest rates compare with those of our region/continent?. Anyone?

What we are experiencing now in Kenya is called a deleveraging, and a major one at that, more on that later. However, a small part of it lies here, the central bank prints money and charges people to use it. If you have any better use for Kenyan money than what banks are doing, if you can go to CBK take 1,000 million shillings (1 billion) and pay it back in one year with 140 million, whatever you make on top is yours, you are free to do so. The only condition is you deposit something so you don't con them and run away with their money. So what Kenya is experiencing at 20% is what the guys who agree to put their money together, can do, it is like asking a hawker to reduce the price of the mutumba na anakwambia market conditions hio bei ndio mwisho kabisa! And banks are even collapsing with this interest rate! Indeed other hawkers take 5% out there. And i know if CBK gave you that cash, you would go into the same businesses as the banks, land, tenders, e.t.c.

So why the high rate? For interest is a cost of using money, it depends on transactions carried out with this money, two things, spending, and the credit given and money printed and what it is spent on. What is Kenyan money mainly spent on. Two "types" of goods are in major demand,

1. Physical Goods, in Kenya, the mostly land, houses, mitumba cars, buses, matatus, ugali, chapo, githeri, t.v. radio. mobile, mitumba, medicine, middle class add meat chicken and sausages, and mafuta, there is little beyond that, we do import some aeroplanes and other machines, but such are all imports and a burden.
2. Non physical goods (know as services). Education, airtime, consultation, charge for use of money itself in transactions, mpesa e.t.c.

When best of KENYAN banks borrow money from CBK just as your sacco can, they THINK HARD what to do with the money so they can pay the 140 million on top, they look between mitumba, houses, githeri, typically they all end up in real estate, mitumba cars, and the charges for moving your money from the hands of one good holder, to the other, in which Mpesa is now leading. Typically, our financial sector charges and survives mostly on proceeds of land and real estate speculation, which are their number one activity, saccos and chamas do the same, and our interest rate therefore largely reflects the cost of acquiring a plot and real estate development.

When the central bank does it's natural job and prints cash, all the money goes back to land, githeri, mitumba e.tc and this causes inflation, because bei ya mafuta imepanda, the next time the bank goes to look for a plot, it will cost more. This will continue on and on as long as there is no one who can do anything better with central banks money. The people who handle the cash have to pay higher bills and demand higher salaries, and so CBK carefully or carelessly prints more cash, to meet the cost needed to make it's own money work, and the interest rates rise, and the price of plots rise, to cater for the same, a viscous cycle per excellence!

On the other hand when the money is used to create more (new goods), new enterprises, e.t.c, like mpesa shops and mpesa, when the central bank prints cash, the inflation does not happen as bad, for inflation is "too much money chasing too few good"...so what we are experiencing is an opportunity for someone, only no one knows how to innovate like mpesa, no new goods. It is a case of people having no idea how to use money they are given, maybe 'some sacco' will undercut this interest rate, watu watapona pole pole, watu watajua kutumia pesa, no need to regulate.
A New Kenya
tom_boy
#439 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2016 5:55:11 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
Much Know wrote:
Njung'e wrote:

@Wazuans,
How do our interest rates compare with those of our region/continent?. Anyone?

What we are experiencing now in Kenya is called a deleveraging, and a major one at that, more on that later. However, a small part of it lies here, the central bank prints money and charges people to use it. If you have any better use for Kenyan money than what banks are doing, if you can go to CBK take 1,000 million shillings (1 billion) and pay it back in one year with 140 million, whatever you make on top is yours, you are free to do so. The only condition is you deposit something so you don't con them and run away with their money. So what Kenya is experiencing at 20% is what the guys who agree to put their money together, can do, it is like asking a hawker to reduce the price of the mutumba na anakwambia market conditions hio bei ndio mwisho kabisa! And banks are even collapsing with this interest rate! Indeed other hawkers take 5% out there. And i know if CBK gave you that cash, you would go into the same businesses as the banks, land, tenders, e.t.c.

So why the high rate? For interest is a cost of using money, it depends on transactions carried out with this money, two things, spending, and the credit given and money printed and what it is spent on. What is Kenyan money mainly spent on. Two "types" of goods are in major demand,

1. Physical Goods, in Kenya, the mostly land, houses, mitumba cars, buses, matatus, ugali, chapo, githeri, t.v. radio. mobile, mitumba, medicine, middle class add meat chicken and sausages, and mafuta, there is little beyond that, we do import some aeroplanes and other machines, but such are all imports and a burden.
2. Non physical goods (know as services). Education, airtime, consultation, charge for use of money itself in transactions, mpesa e.t.c.

When best of KENYAN banks borrow money from CBK just as your sacco can, they THINK HARD what to do with the money so they can pay the 140 million on top, they look between mitumba, houses, githeri, typically they all end up in real estate, mitumba cars, and the charges for moving your money from the hands of one good holder, to the other, in which Mpesa is now leading. Typically, our financial sector charges and survives mostly on proceeds of land and real estate speculation, which are their number one activity, saccos and chamas do the same, and our interest rate therefore largely reflects the cost of acquiring a plot and real estate development.

When the central bank does it's natural job and prints cash, all the money goes back to land, githeri, mitumba e.tc and this causes inflation, because bei ya mafuta imepanda, the next time the bank goes to look for a plot, it will cost more. This will continue on and on as long as there is no one who can do anything better with central banks money. The people who handle the cash have to pay higher bills and demand higher salaries, and so CBK carefully or carelessly prints more cash, to meet the cost needed to make it's own money work, and the interest rates rise, and the price of plots rise, to cater for the same, a viscous cycle per excellence!

On the other hand when the money is used to create more (new goods), new enterprises, e.t.c, like mpesa shops and mpesa, when the central bank prints cash, the inflation does not happen as bad, for inflation is "too much money chasing too few good"...so what we are experiencing is an opportunity for someone, only no one knows how to innovate like mpesa, no new goods. It is a case of people having no idea how to use money they are given, maybe 'some sacco' will undercut this interest rate, watu watapona pole pole, watu watajua kutumia pesa, no need to regulate.


Hiyo yote does not explain why Government borrowing is blamed for high rates. High rates are simply because banks are greedy. They should be cut to size. With rate controll, these banks will still have to lend to someone,either Government or big companies. Either way,there will be more money to spread around as supply ( deposits) will outstrip suitable borrowers ( demand). Eventually the banks will supply all their cash to gava thus even lower rates ( hurray for big business and credit worthy folks) or be forced to balance gava appetite for cash by lending to slightly higher risk Wanjikus so as not to flood t bills and forces rates down. It will be a dance between gava and banks. I do not see any possible downside to the economy.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
MaichBlack
#440 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2016 7:21:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
Njung'e wrote:

@Maich,

You are clearly so much against capping even though you haven't given solid reasons for your case.

@guka - You must be kidding me. I have explained this in so many ways so many times it got tiring. May be before you make certain statements, you should go through the whole thread.

But you are mzee I respect so let me assume it is an honest mistake. Though there is a statement you made and I could not believe it was you! You said that the capping should be implemented and if it affects Kamwana (not the economy!!!) we can reverse it! Surely!!??
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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