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IEBC showdown today!!!!!!!!

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hardwood		#191 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 11:51:39 AM
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay		KulaRaha wrote: Must you become a fool when you join GoK? The CS is right. Alshabaab has been destroying communication masts in mandera lately and these are the same masts you people want to use to conduct your digital election. http://www.nation.co.ke/...483950-a27xg1/index.html http://www.nation.co.ke/.../1183298-3484586-xbobn2/
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masukuma		#192 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 11:56:00 AM
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi		Let's place things in perspective : voting day has about 4 core activities that happen at polling station 1) verification - looking up your name on the register and marking you off the register 2) ballot paper marking and dropping the marked ballot into a ballot 3) counting of all ballots in the said ballot box. 4) announcement and sending of results of the polling station to the next level. The current debate is about step 1 and 4. Namely verification of persons and after doing all that needs to happen - transmitting the results. this is not a new thing per se as it happened in 2013 and was not a legal requirement but rather an administrative step. now the 2 have been entrenched in law. I am very much for the automation of those two but I am very certain that I want a fallback that does not infringe on the key reason we go for elections... hearing the voices of the people. Now DISCUSS. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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KulaRaha		#193 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 12:01:30 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514		hardwood wrote: KulaRaha wrote: Must you become a fool when you join GoK? The CS is right. Alshabaab has been destroying communication masts in mandera lately and these are the same masts you people want to use to conduct your digital election. http://www.nation.co.ke/...483950-a27xg1/index.html http://www.nation.co.ke/.../1183298-3484586-xbobn2/ We should also stop mpesa in Mandera as they can destroy cellular towers etc and cause economic meltdown and a recession. Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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Much Know		#194 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 12:13:20 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,585		masukuma wrote: Now DISCUSS. Using the word "systems" can be used to cause chaos in Kenya by bad politicians, they will spread lies like "stolen", "compromised", and lo and behold if there is a beautiful professional lady(of just wrong TRIBE) near the 'system', she shall be abused in conjunction with the system failure by the politicians and asked to resign. Before you know it, we have a team of international experts hired to check what happened, and their answer, we don't know? But billions will have been already spent through tenders on the system. Then the "know it all" "IT Experts", and Data analyst experts will come in with their expensive looking "corporate style" designer spectacles aka goggles, and start yapping kizungu mingi about 2 levels of security, biometrics, software bugs, data mining, IP address, hacking, selling info, each with a different story and they are the specific experts to solve the problem for billions (na wameweka stoneface), "more tender", before we know it we have a full scale war of confusion and lies.2022 scenario repeated. A manual back up to avoid the above confusion is a must! Ras Kienyeji Man
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Angelica _ann		#195 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 12:17:05 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,937		What was so hard Muturi allowing such sober discussions? Worst speaker ever, in my opinion. In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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hardwood		#196 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 12:25:56 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay		KulaRaha wrote: hardwood wrote: KulaRaha wrote: Must you become a fool when you join GoK? The CS is right. Alshabaab has been destroying communication masts in mandera lately and these are the same masts you people want to use to conduct your digital election. http://www.nation.co.ke/...483950-a27xg1/index.html http://www.nation.co.ke/.../1183298-3484586-xbobn2/ We should also stop mpesa in Mandera as they can destroy cellular towers etc and cause economic meltdown and a recession. At least the residents are wise and have a manual backup ie cash money and dont have to wait until the dysfunctional (destroyed) safcom and orange towers are repaired for them to continue transacting business. But baba is insisting that "they MUST suspend all business until mpesa is back". So if anything happens to the communication towers during election time, baba is saying that we wait for even 2 weeks until they are repaired, then the people can vote and results can be transmitted.
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hardwood		#197 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 12:45:37 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay		Angelica _ann wrote: What was so hard Muturi allowing such sober discussions? Worst speaker ever, in my opinion. Ethuro is the worst speaker in my view because instead of being decisive and concluding the issue, he chose to buy time, and now he wants a committee to start collecting views. How can the peoples' representatives in parliament pass a law and then ethuro directs that some committee goes around in six days "to collect views". How will those views be collected and from whom? Will the committee go to all counties and villages? I thought we sent our representatives to parliament (and senate) to deal with such issues. We need decisive leaders who deal issues not postponing them. Also what is the point of having a democracy when the majority (in this case jubilee) are not allowed to have their way? Ethuros move is an affront to democracy since he wants the minority cord to dictate how things should be run via some "out of parliament" shenanigans. Kenyans chose jubilee to run govt and that is why it has majority in parliament and senate. And its wrong for ethuro to suppress the voice of Kenyans. The only good thing with that ruling is that it has deflated baba's mass action and therefore kids can now report to school in peace.
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masukuma		#198 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 1:01:02 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi		Much Know wrote: masukuma wrote: Now DISCUSS. Using the word "systems" can be used to cause chaos in Kenya by bad politicians, they will spread lies like "stolen", "compromised", and lo and behold if there is a beautiful professional lady(of just wrong TRIBE) near the 'system', she shall be abused in conjunction with the system failure by the politicians and asked to resign. Before you know it, we have a team of international experts hired to check what happened, and their answer, we don't know? But billions will have been already spent through tenders on the system. Then the "know it all" "IT Experts", and Data analyst experts will come in with their expensive looking "corporate style" designer spectacles aka goggles, and start yapping kizungu mingi about 2 levels of security, biometrics, software bugs, data mining, IP address, hacking, selling info, each with a different story and they are the specific experts to solve the problem for billions (na wameweka stoneface), "more tender", before we know it we have a full scale war of confusion and lies.2022 scenario repeated. A manual back up to avoid the above confusion is a must! I remember sometime back writing this in response to @maka's proposal of some mpesa like system to vote on the phone. masukuma wrote: No! it won't work... I am a tech guy and so this is strange coming from me - right? I have heard this from Tech people who implement systems all over the place and when I started this line of work I thought the same. But I have thought about this over and over and I have possibly 2 big reasons why this will not work. Let me explain, Remember all mordern electoral systems (systems as in process) are implementations of article 21(3) of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states: Quote: The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures. 1) Inclusivity here is the deal - Elections unlike any other thing done by people should not have requirements that 99% of the population. 80% of people have mobile phones and almost 90% is not good enough... it has to be DEMONSTRATABLE 100% OF THE PEOPLE. That is why the requirement to vote is so low! in countries like the US the issue of voting with a photo ID is being debated. To vote you should just have been a citizen and a grownup. by the way citizenship is not granted by the state (we have it all wrong here.... it's an illenable right). but yeah.... having a requirement to have a phone disenfranchises people. The best statement I ever heard about the magic of election day is that IT'S THE ONE DAY THAT THE WOMAN AT THE MARKET PLACE SPEAKS AS ELOQUENTLY AS THE CEO OF A BANK! By the way... I AM A TECH GUY AND I DON'T USE M-PESA!!!! I dislike it! but that's just me. how many of us are out there? What we are having now is what one writer called "The Idolatry of Efficiency". We are being tempted to sacrifice inclusivity at the altar of efficiency! 2) Transparency vs Secrecy Remember the system has to be "secret". This means that only I know who I voted for! Secondly We must know for sure who got what. And this determine the operation procedures of a polling station. Technology to do this is out there. VVAT machines e.t.c. but the problem we have is that DEMOCRACY if you really dig through the meaning of the word is coined from greek meaning RULE of MANY! right... "Demos".."Kratos". TECHNOLOGY is actually at it's root a realm of a few! it's a skill. The writting of software is not a thing that everyone can relate to! (this was prominent in social media conversations when John Allan Namu and Moha did that expose! people don't really know what to believe... terms like IP addresses, Operating Systems e.t.c. lost people). We may be given an easy enough user interface but what lurks in the background? Can you tell? What tends to happen is that an elite bunch of tech people tell the rest of the people... HEY THIS SYSTEM WORKS! IT'S SECURE E.T.C. We have to take it at face value. As opposed to the demonstratability of polling day procedures at a polling station. it's self manifest! A parallel story to this is a story I once heard on a minister in Canada being fried for expenses on juice! she drunk a $19 glass of juice and charged it to the state. People went ballistic....why ? they know the price of juice. They can relate to it. There have been many claims on millions of dollars being used to buy Military Jets.... but people don't go ballistic over them coz... who really knows what a jet costs? Or an aircraft carrier! is 2billion too much to spend of an aircraft carrier? or is it too little? is it just right? The populace does not know! Remember the Kanu "formula" thing? people didn't understand it! That's the problem of technology - it requires a bunch of experts to tell you... hey... this thing works and philosophically this puts the demonstratability of whether a system is secure/secret/transparent in the hands of the owners of the skill (few people) instead of the "demos" that own the process. so basically - elections are not meant to be EFFECIENT! that is where all outsiders get lost - ELECTIONS ARE MEANT TO BE INCLUSIVE, TRANSPARENT AND SECRET AND DEMONSTRATABLY SO TO EVERYONE! that is why the physical ballot paper process is still king. this was way before current debate. Does anyone remember the conversation around the inside story? 50% +1 by akina Namu? especially the second bit? no one really understands technology - not Raila, Not Kalonzo not even the 'hackers' or even the east africa data network person. No one. the conversation that followed us was even more interesting... sasa people were following the lead of persons who they trusted... persons who were clueless on the subject matter. it's a case of the blind following the blind! that's the worst thing when technology fails... some guy once said Quote: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic MPESA is magic to many people... it 'just works' until it stops and people cannot tell what to do All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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PeterReborn		#199 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 1:30:01 PM
Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/3/2014 Posts: 1,063		I love the sober debate in the Senate legal committee.Wako isvery professional and articulate. Consistency is better than intensity
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aemathenge		#200 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 1:43:44 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/18/2008 Posts: 3,434 Location: Kerugoya		masukuma wrote: Let's place things in perspective....Now DISCUSS. I was reaching a point of exasperation, and then I happened to have clicked on Season One Episode One instead of one of the world’s favourites; Season Three Episode One. Right from day one, Special Agent Donald Ressler is the butt of many a joke from Mr. Reddington. This is because Agent Ressler is a stickler for the straight and narrow and presumes everyone else does the same. I hope you and Citizens have watched Season One and perhaps the rest of the series. Because I am about to have my fun too. You might want to talk to Clerks who have actually worked as Polling Clerks in “Strong Hold Areas” between 6 am and 6 pm who later become Counting Clerks after having their dinner. Out there, there is evidence of rigging. Or is there? Kirinyaga District Erectoral Commission of Kenya Office Headquarters was burnt to the ground. Twice. What was that story about where Kenyatta University “students” destroyed erectoral materials stored within the campus? Grab some popcorn. Perspective. The cheek. https://mahegoat.wordpress.com
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