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Equity bank collapse: Impact...
johwak
#21 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:13:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/15/2008
Posts: 28
iv been a customer but am quiting because of pathetic customer service and non functional ATM's especially at end month.I miss my days at Stanchart,they have the best service ever and am going back.

johnie the walker
McReggae
#22 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:47:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
You can make your own end month so that you don't go to the ATMS when all the Toms Dicks and Harrys are calling it end month!!!!

The chief value of money lies in the fact that one lives in a world in which it is overestimated.
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Obi 1 Kanobi
#23 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:08:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
I don't think anything significant would happen if equity were to collapse.

All the small deposit holders will be paid upto 100K,then the bank would be auctioned to other banks who would happily adopt its model and life goes on.

Equity is just another bank,its ranked 4th or 5th in the country in terms of size,it has another 45 competitors,its very replaceable.


I guess if you can't win with facts,you can always pen bile-laced,xenophobic rants to distract everyone.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
Tusker Baridi
#24 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:41:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/9/2006
Posts: 186
Why Equity is a ponzi scheme:

Equity will fail because of its aggressive growth strategy that relies on high risk common mwananchi loans,lose underwritting requirements and corrupt Treasury that looks the other way.

Now we all know banks operate on leverage,but to make sure that the bank can meet its obligations to depositors,debtors etc,the Treasury sets capital and leverage requirements. Here is where political banks come in. In order to accomodate equity's aggressive expansion,its godfathers ask Treasury to look the other way and ignore the capital and leverage requirements. That is why you see Equity always getting special waivers from the finance minister,Treasury and even the Central bank. Ask yourself why other banks dont get such waivers.

These schemes work perfectly during boom times because depositors are flush with cash and have no need to widthraw funds from Equity. But like Buffett says,'You only find out who is swimming naked when the tide goes out'.

So what are the impacts of Equity bank collapse:

1. The economy will do just fine,a lot of these equity depositors previously hid their money under their mattress so no big deal.

2. The stock market will be devastated,a lot of retail investors will shun investing for a long time,NSE would flirt with 1,000 mark.
simonkabz
#25 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:45:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Conclusion: such an eventuality would b catastrophic for the delicate kenyan economy,too grave to contemplate. Im now more than ever convinced EB is here to stay,naysayers aside. Thank you everyone.

Truest proverb: Mwenda pole hajikwai
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
Lyanne
#26 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:56:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/5/2009
Posts: 181
@ TB you are dead wrong on this one.

#1 Treasury doesnt oversee any bank in Kenya,its the Central Bank that does !

# 2 The World Bank via Helios couldnt have invested a mind numbing amount in Equity without doing their due diligence! What you are insuniating here is cheap bar talk.

# 3 Like a succesful enterpreneur once said,if everyone believes you'll fail,then know youre on the way to the top. So much hogwash has been said about Equity but the results and dividends always astound us !

# 4 Most banks have made it their business to replicate EB's 'modo' and i havent heard anyone say that the banks replicating the Equity 'modo' are bound to fail. Actually the strategy within most banks is to think and imagine what Equity is going to do next.




The Hedonist
Tusker Baridi
#27 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 1:01:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/9/2006
Posts: 186
@simon

You Know Kenya's economy has survived worse stuff than some political bank like Equity collapsing,just take a look at the Moi error,Kibaki PEV etc. Kenya's economy is very resiient,now the NSE would be a different story.

Equity is not indispensable. Also,Equity has never been through a recession so I would not be so cocky about its invincibility. Good corporations are not measured during boom times,its during recession where the men are separated from the boys. Let's wait and see,but if I were you,I would watch this one from the sidelines.
mukiha
#28 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 1:03:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@TB;

I wish you could support your theory with facts and figures!

Look at the ratios for 2008:

g) Core Capital/ Total Deposit Liabilities 29%
h) Minimum statutory ratio 8%
i) Excess / (defficiency) (g-h) 21%
j) Core Capital/ Total Risk Weighted Assets 29%
k) Minimum statutory Ratio 8%
L) Excess / (defficiency) (j-k) 21%

m) Total Capital/ Total Risk Weighted assets 41%
n) Minimum statutory Ratio 12%
o) Excess / (defficiency) (m-n) 29%

Now,I have no reason to doubt these figures...unless you want us to believe that Ernst & Young are also in on this conspiracy to hoodwink the public!

Behind the gardens...Behind the wall...Under the tree (Including: Red...Dark Blue...Yellow)
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
The General
#29 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 1:11:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/3/2006
Posts: 553

A bank lives on credit. Till it is trusted it is nothing; and when it ceases to be trusted it turns to nothing - Walter Bagehot

Jambo 'mbuzi pie'

The thicker the thigh the sweeter the pie.
The thicker the thigh the sweeter the pie.
mukiha
#30 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 1:16:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@TB...your ignorance or youth reveals itself when you say 'Equity has never been through a recession so I would not be so cocky about its invincibility.'

Equity started operations in 1984! Long before the Goldenberg-induced recession of the Early 90s and the Moi 'kicks of a dying horse'-induced recession in year 2000. It pulled through and is stronger today.

The problem with Equity sceptics is that they forget this bank has a 25-year history....older than most of the critics! It didn't just spring out from nowhere 'Trade-Bank' style.

In addition,the bank first took a strong foothold deep in rural Kenya.... Kiriani,Othaya,Kangema etc... only keeping an administrative HQ in Nairobi. Thus most Nairobi loud-mouths became aware of the bank about five years ago!

Check your library about the true meaning of Exponential Growth

==========

DISCLAIMER:
I am neither a customer nor a shareholder; but the latter status is changing soon!

Behind the gardens...Behind the wall...Under the tree (Including: Red...Dark Blue...Yellow)
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
Tusker Baridi
#31 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 1:17:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/9/2006
Posts: 186
@Lianne

Thanx for the correction. I did mention that the Central Bank boss gave Equity some waivers and always jumps to defend it. Be very afraid when the enforcing officer acts as the PR guy for the ones he is supposed to be monitoring.

Dont get me started on Helios,go do further DD on that one and you will see political fat cats all over it.

You cannot call the 'modo' model a success until it has survived the recession,anyone can produce great numbers during boom time,lets see how the 'modo' model survives the recession stress test.
Tusker Baridi
#32 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 1:25:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/9/2006
Posts: 186
@mukiha

That was not Equity then,it was a building society that was on the brink of a collapse then Mwangi came in and saved the day with his loot from Tradebank. Equity bank is yet to survive a recession.

I know plenty of exponential growth,Maddoff,Ponzi,etc
mukiha
#33 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 1:41:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@TB..

Ati Mwangi & Trade Bank!

I can't believe you've taken us back to that rumour!

The person who injected capital was Munga..the Chairman. Mwangi did not have that kind of money at the time.

If you can only associate exponential growth with Ponzi Schemes,then you need to read more!

Behind the gardens...Behind the wall...Under the tree (Including: Red...Dark Blue...Yellow)
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
The General
#34 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 1:49:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/3/2006
Posts: 553
@ Mukiha,

If you had a choice between KCB and Equity to:

1) Bank with

2) Invest in

3) work in

Which would you choose?

The thicker the thigh the sweeter the pie.
The thicker the thigh the sweeter the pie.
Tusker Baridi
#35 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:01:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/9/2006
Posts: 186
@mukiha

Lets talk about Mwangi's role in the Tradebank collapse,this is the one topic that Equity supporters will never discuss period. The moment one mentions Mwangi and another model bank that collapsed,they all suddenly see no evil,say no evil and speak no evil.

It is not a rumor,Mwangi was indeed Tradebank senior executive and should not even be allowed to work as a teller at any bank. Here in America,we send such thieves to jail.

And yes,Mwangi and co did pump money to revive Equity building society,only that we know Mwangi's money was stolen from poor depositors. Truth hurts,Mwangi stole at least sh 200 million from Trade Bank which he then invested in Equity. Halafu you claim eti you know Equity's history, you just look at the history you want to see.

Hata Tradebank grew exponentially and so do a lot of ponzi schemes.


myks
#36 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:02:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/14/2008
Posts: 107
Toms Dicks eh eh ehhh

Gravity; Its not just the law,its reality.
mukiha
#37 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:12:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@Generali

I'd choose:

1) Bank with - EQTY [I have seen them easily lend money to and change the lives of several entreprenurs,and I don't like archaic procedures at KCB]

2) Invest in - EQTY [GoK holding in KCB opens it to the risk of interference...as happened in the Moi years]

3) work in - EQTY [working in a growing market leader opens up very many orppotunities for career growth]

Behind the gardens...Behind the wall...Under the tree (Including: Red...Dark Blue...Yellow)
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
The General
#38 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:27:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/3/2006
Posts: 553

In a worst case scenario,and the two banks are facing 'hard times',where would you rather be a shareholder?

The thicker the thigh the sweeter the pie.
The thicker the thigh the sweeter the pie.
Tusker Baridi
#39 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:29:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/9/2006
Posts: 186
@mukiha

I see you are conveniently turning a blind eye to Mwangi's history yet you are the one who was preaching the importance of history. well,let us go down memory lane..

So in1989,Trade Bank collapses and the top executives take off with the loot:

Alnoor Kassam-CEO : takes off with ksh 800 million,escapes to Canada

John Munge-General Manager: takes off with his loot and forms EuroBank,another political bank that collapses with billions of depositors money.

Solomon Muthamia-Senior Forex Manager: joined Munge in forming EuroBank and fleecing more depositors.

James Mwangi-Senior Finance Manager: uses part of his ks200 million loot to buy Equity,tuns it into yet another political ponzi scheme

Now look at that company,all thieves. and their modus operandi is the same: buy a few politicians,buy the Central Bank manager,form a bank,leverage to the max and then bail out. but Equity folks would rather talk about history going back to 1984 but not this history going back to 1989.

Over to you Mukiha
simonkabz
#40 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:41:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
@tb,if i stole n use the loot to put up a highrise building in town,would u rent it for business?

Truest proverb: Mwenda pole hajikwai
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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