Wazua
»
Club SK
»
Politics
»
Ruto Supports Draft--True
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
|
Seeders wrote:
----the amusing statements i repeatedly see here that the new constitution is the end-all of mps salaries, corruption, violence, extrajudicial killing, post poll violence, tribalism or even rape. yes, the constitution is changing. but it is being spearheaded by the people who abused the old one. i really want to see this 'change we can believe in' that everyone is so excited about.
Ok @Seeders May be the question you should ask is if you believe that we really need a new constitution, ever. This is because, even those in NO camp still acknowledge we need a new constitution with few changes. Assuming that, true, the new constitution will not help us change anything. Assuming we vote and NO goes through. do you still believe that we need a new constitution after that? What would it then be for if you strongly believe that it will not help this country. The proponents of the No camp are telling us that we vote NO, we make the amendments that need to be done, then vote for it by end of this year, yet, there is no budget for another referendum - are they really telling us the truth?
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
|
Kusadikika wrote:
Somebody please explain to me like am a 2 year old exactly what this means. How is this money that is in Nairobi get there and how is it now being used? How will this money get to Nairobi after the referendum and how will it leave Nairobi for "mashinani" and how differently will it be used assuming Yes wins? What will the money be used for that it is not being used for now? Can Counties levy and collect their own taxes? If so which ones, Income tax, VAT, Property tax etc?
Am thinking, and i stand to be COLLECTED, its same way CDF was introduced and same way funds are allocated to the CDF only that the allocation now will be more - 15%.
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 8/19/2008 Posts: 60
|
Wendz wrote:Seeders wrote:
----the amusing statements i repeatedly see here that the new constitution is the end-all of mps salaries, corruption, violence, extrajudicial killing, post poll violence, tribalism or even rape. yes, the constitution is changing. but it is being spearheaded by the people who abused the old one. i really want to see this 'change we can believe in' that everyone is so excited about.
Ok @Seeders May be the question you should ask is if you believe that we really need a new constitution, ever. This is because, even those in NO camp still acknowledge we need a new constitution with few changes. Assuming that, true, the new constitution will not help us change anything. Assuming we vote and NO goes through. do you still believe that we need a new constitution after that? What would it then be for if you strongly believe that it will not help this country. The proponents of the No camp are telling us that we vote NO, we make the amendments that need to be done, then vote for it by end of this year, yet, there is no budget for another referendum - are they really telling us the truth? Is that supposed to mean that those in yes camp and telling guys to vote yes then we amend later are also not telling the truth since some of the amendments require a referendum to go through???
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 11/19/2008 Posts: 1,267
|
Soko tele wrote:Wendz wrote:Seeders wrote:
----the amusing statements i repeatedly see here that the new constitution is the end-all of mps salaries, corruption, violence, extrajudicial killing, post poll violence, tribalism or even rape. yes, the constitution is changing. but it is being spearheaded by the people who abused the old one. i really want to see this 'change we can believe in' that everyone is so excited about.
Ok @Seeders May be the question you should ask is if you believe that we really need a new constitution, ever. This is because, even those in NO camp still acknowledge we need a new constitution with few changes. Assuming that, true, the new constitution will not help us change anything. Assuming we vote and NO goes through. do you still believe that we need a new constitution after that? What would it then be for if you strongly believe that it will not help this country. The proponents of the No camp are telling us that we vote NO, we make the amendments that need to be done, then vote for it by end of this year, yet, there is no budget for another referendum - are they really telling us the truth? Is that supposed to mean that those in yes camp and telling guys to vote yes then we amend later are also not telling the truth since some of the amendments require a referendum to go through??? No they are saying we can ammend latter...bu not specifying the timeline...as the No are openly lying that we can have a referedoom by December 2010  Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 2/17/2010 Posts: 234 Location: Nairobi
|
ms. wendz - you are missing the point. ------do not classify everyone in no as a liar just like you would not want to be classified as a liar because you are in yes. you cannot issue a blanket statement on the sincerity of the noists saying 'another chance in november' just like i cannot unilaterally comment on the sincerity of the yessers saying 'it is august 4th or armageddon in 2012'. ruto and moi or gumo and ntimama are known thugs but they are not the universal embodiment of no and yes. -------i agree we need a new constitution and i am voting yes because i think the draft is slightly better than the current constitution. but the draft is not infallible as is often insinuated here and i think some arguments in no have valid reasons for concern. ----why do we find it near impossible to comprehend that someone who you do not agree with could have at least one point that makes sense?
----why the fear or reluctance of publicly criticizing someone in our camp whether no or yes?
----why the need to have everyone thinking alike?
----why the need to delegitimize someone in no so we can feel more confident of our yes or vise versa?intellectual insecurity perhaps? my view is that there will be little change post aug 4th because our problem has never been the constitution but constitutionalism. i am saying that it is unrealistic to expect, as i frequently read here, that the new constitution will singularly sort out mps salaries, mp performance, the appointment of incompetent ministers, corruption, impunity, ethnic clashes, cronyism, election rigging and unemployment especially if the 'change' is championed by the primary proponents of past ills. any constitution including the new one can be abused or ignored if the ruling elite choose to do so.Wendz wrote:Seeders wrote:
----the amusing statements i repeatedly see here that the new constitution is the end-all of mps salaries, corruption, violence, extrajudicial killing, post poll violence, tribalism or even rape. yes, the constitution is changing. but it is being spearheaded by the people who abused the old one. i really want to see this 'change we can believe in' that everyone is so excited about.
Ok @Seeders May be the question you should ask is if you believe that we really need a new constitution, ever. This is because, even those in NO camp still acknowledge we need a new constitution with few changes. Assuming that, true, the new constitution will not help us change anything. Assuming we vote and NO goes through. do you still believe that we need a new constitution after that? What would it then be for if you strongly believe that it will not help this country. The proponents of the No camp are telling us that we vote NO, we make the amendments that need to be done, then vote for it by end of this year, yet, there is no budget for another referendum - are they really telling us the truth?
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/31/2008 Posts: 1,076
|
@Seeders How you manage to read my mind so clearly! I cast my lot with your sentiments. Dunia ni msongamano..
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
|
@Fundaah...niko mahali hawatanipata...sisi ndio hao maComputer Guru!! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 4/30/2010 Posts: 241
|
Seeder,everything will not change come aug 5th. Why? This is not an event like a general election but a process  ukiona choo kwa ndoto usiingie, ni mtego!
|
|
|
Wazua
»
Club SK
»
Politics
»
Ruto Supports Draft--True
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
|