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M7 Social Media TAX -Excellent
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo
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simonkabz wrote:Hii maneno mimi bado elewa.
1. If I use my FB app, using Safaricon data, is there any financial transaction that takes place between Safaricon and FB? And if there is, who pays who, and for what?
Safaricom does not pay Facebook Anything. Facebook Does not pay Safaricom Anything. If safcom dies, FB will not even know.
2. Is there any money that leaves our economy courtesy of FB, other than the repatriated Safcon (vodafone) data profits?
Safcom is the bad one here as they are the ones who repatriate their profits. If we say we start taxing because monies is leaving our country, then we should tax Alibaba, Dailymail and even pornhub. Wazua should also pay taxes in the UK as there are a lot of wazua users in the UK.
3. FB does free marketing in our territory, and makes money via adverts. Isn't it just a matter of time before they start paying taxes to host countries?
FB does not do free marketing in Kenya. It is you and your friends who go there willingly. FB pays taxes in their host country which is where they are incorporated.
Someone elaborate.
Maybe, just maybe, Uganda will be the trigger! This taxation thing will also mean that the people in Uganda also pay taxes for accessing wazua, nation and standard newspapers. Taxation is meant to be charged at source. Otherwise at this rate, you shall grow your cabagges in Nyandarua and get taxed there. Then your buyer in Mombasa shall also be taxed because they bought Cabbages that did not come from Mombasa. In short. Upus. Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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M7 is generally very misguided and behind times. he should simply come out and tell Ugandans that he has introduced a tax on their data use, which will be borne by Ugandan people or the companies, period. Ugandans will get to pay more for the same product while the rest of the world will feel no impact. Social media is not a product that should be taxed, its a platform for use, like a book and pens, or a library, etc. Question is who here has been charged for using facebook, or whatsapp. You buy data, and use it as you wish, some use it to surf porn, others use it to sell their wares etc. For me its a consumption tax like any other tax, good for the govt as its broad but bad for the people as it makes goods expensive. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:M7 is generally very misguided and behind times. he should simply come out and tell Ugandans that he has introduced a tax on their data use, which will be borne by Ugandan people or the companies, period. Ugandans will get to pay more for the same product while the rest of the world will feel no impact.
Social media is not a product that should be taxed, its a platform for use, like a book and pens, or a library, etc.
Question is who here has been charged for using facebook, or whatsapp. You buy data, and use it as you wish, some use it to surf porn, others use it to sell their wares etc.
For me its a consumption tax like any other tax, good for the govt as its broad but bad for the people as it makes goods expensive. yeah... why be charged to a tax specifically for a product you have already bought - DATA? no data is free! They charge tax on data buying (credit or ISPs). It's synonymous to buying electricity - getting taxed on it and then getting a separate charge on electricity itself when you use that electricity to watch Movies in your house not cook, or light up your house or iron your clothes e.t.c. just watching movies! because watching 'watching movies' is deemed as being 'being idle' by some dude in authority! How absurd is this? People should be free to use their electricity as they want... they have bought it... you have taxed it already... let them BE! Taxing them for watching movies is just hurting them while hoping that the people who make those movies in the US feel the pinch when the person in Kenya is paying this absurdity tax. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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Realtreaty wrote: Africans never start anything before the white and the Indians exhaust it. If this was introduced by Britain we would just jump in. Britain is a beneficiary as they own Vodafone that milk our men and women. The USA govt owns most of the social media and so we run and pay them without any tax going back to us but they receive wholesome as we again run to borrow from them We tend to be too clever doing nothing (Professor Obel explained the weakness of being African) We want to speak more English more than the English people but it does not help us as we do not still understand it. Just because M7 started it (and he is not first one as those owners pay taxes they import from foolish countries) he skim him and call him names. Time to remember why we were called Niggers.!!! Indians and Wazungus wouldn't do it... why because they know about it... the concept is the concept of NET NEUTRALITY. Heck India just made a law to enshine net neutrality... anyone who infringes on it will suffer stiff penalties. At the core of this thing is a "FREE INTERNET" not "FREE" as in "FREE LUNCH" but rather "FREE PRESS". All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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If M7 wants to tax social media, he should be taxing heavily those local ugandan companies advertising using social media. There is no cash outflows from Uganda to FB, Twitter or whatsapp except the cash from advertisements.That's the only way he can save his Coffee dollars If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
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M7 is brilliant to introduce social media tax. social media is such a distraction, should be classified a little lower than other social evils like smoking and alcohol. Social media , at some level has negative effects on the economy. When I buy bread, I pay tax on the bread. The producer pays tax to produce the bread. The shop keeper also pays. basically, the way tax is structured, one gets to pay tax for anything that adds value to your life. In social media, the only beneficiaries for far too long have been the facebook and instagram owners. they collect ad revenue and do not remit a cent to the country where the the ads were broadcast. They actually deplete goverment revenue because companies will claim the ad spend as a tax deductible expense. Since social media seems to be adding some value to the individuals on it, its ok to tax them. This way, the goverment also benefits. The goverment should go a step further and impose an advertisement tax on all social media platforms that are active in our country. Yes, Google, whatsup, facebook etc should pay to Kenya goverment for the priviledge to allow kenyan eyes to look at their advertisements. Same way County govt charges fees for putting up a billboard. They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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tom_boy wrote:M7 is brilliant to introduce social media tax. social media is such a distraction, should be classified a little lower than other social evils like smoking and alcohol. Social media , at some level has negative effects on the economy.
When I buy bread, I pay tax on the bread. The producer pays tax to produce the bread. The shop keeper also pays. basically, the way tax is structured, one gets to pay tax for anything that adds value to your life.
In social media, the only beneficiaries for far too long have been the facebook and instagram owners. they collect ad revenue and do not remit a cent to the country where the the ads were broadcast. They actually deplete goverment revenue because companies will claim the ad spend as a tax deductible expense.
Since social media seems to be adding some value to the individuals on it, its ok to tax them. This way, the goverment also benefits. The goverment should go a step further and impose an advertisement tax on all social media platforms that are active in our country. Yes, Google, whatsup, facebook etc should pay to Kenya goverment for the priviledge to allow kenyan eyes to look at their advertisements. Same way County govt charges fees for putting up a billboard.
What a bunch of really stupid people who don't understand simple concepts! This is what McReggae used to call thumping you bony chests... boss... it's small rivers that join big rivers! Have you seen a Google, whatsup, facebook advert on your TV trying to ask people to join it? this action hurts no one else but social media users and will result is social unrests in the countries it's implemented in. Kenya has about 7 million facebook users - so little that Facebook does not really care. How many offices does facebook have in africa? 1... in Joberg... for the over 1 billion people in africa... 1 office? please... know your place. your actions will destabilize your country and not make a blip on facebook's graph. Plus if people don't use internet to get to facebook, google, whatsapp - data ni ya nini? data is a huge cash earner for telcos and and in directly governments. hii upuzi ya double taxation ni nini? yes... When you buy bread you get taxed on bread... but how you CONSUME YOUR BREAD should not attract different taxes... ati when you eat your bread when cut... tax... when it's not cut.. hakuna tax. it's such a stupid idea. never heard anything like it. P.S. people don't survive just to make the economy grow... that's the greatest idolatry... people don't live for the economy! Secondly, governments tax what you are calling 'social evils' because they can get away with it... you will not see a bunch of people protesting gambling taxes or rights of smokers coz it's seen by the population as being 'evil'. - hata malaya hutaka kulipa tax ndio wafanye kazi yao mainstream - no mainstream thing wants to be taxed! Ugandans have already protested this silly tax... that on it's own tells you that it's MAIN STREAM... hebu tax unga uone... wananchi watakukujia.. utabeba placard kama ile Raila alibebeshwa na watu wa kibira All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
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masukuma wrote:tom_boy wrote:M7 is brilliant to introduce social media tax. social media is such a distraction, should be classified a little lower than other social evils like smoking and alcohol. Social media , at some level has negative effects on the economy.
When I buy bread, I pay tax on the bread. The producer pays tax to produce the bread. The shop keeper also pays. basically, the way tax is structured, one gets to pay tax for anything that adds value to your life.
In social media, the only beneficiaries for far too long have been the facebook and instagram owners. they collect ad revenue and do not remit a cent to the country where the the ads were broadcast. They actually deplete goverment revenue because companies will claim the ad spend as a tax deductible expense.
Since social media seems to be adding some value to the individuals on it, its ok to tax them. This way, the goverment also benefits. The goverment should go a step further and impose an advertisement tax on all social media platforms that are active in our country. Yes, Google, whatsup, facebook etc should pay to Kenya goverment for the priviledge to allow kenyan eyes to look at their advertisements. Same way County govt charges fees for putting up a billboard.
What a bunch of really stupid people who don't understand simple concepts! This is what McReggae used to call thumping you bony chests... boss... it's small rivers that join big rivers! Have you seen a Google, whatsup, facebook advert on your TV trying to ask people to join it? this action hurts no one else but social media users and will result is social unrests in the countries it's implemented in. Kenya has about 7 million facebook users - so little that Facebook does not really care. How many offices does facebook have in africa? 1... in Joberg... for the over 1 billion people in africa... 1 office? please... know your place. your actions will destabilize your country and not make a blip on facebook's graph. Plus if people don't use internet to get to facebook, google, whatsapp - data ni ya nini? data is a huge cash earner for telcos and and in directly governments. hii upuzi ya double taxation ni nini? yes... When you buy bread you get taxed on bread... but how you CONSUME YOUR BREAD should not attract different taxes... ati when you eat your bread when cut... tax... when it's not cut.. hakuna tax. it's such a stupid idea. never heard anything like it. P.S. people don't survive just to make the economy grow... that's the greatest idolatry... people don't live for the economy! Secondly, governments tax what you are calling 'social evils' because they can get away with it... you will not see a bunch of people protesting gambling taxes or rights of smokers coz it's seen by the population as being 'evil'. - hata malaya hutaka kulipa tax ndio wafanye kazi yao mainstream - no mainstream thing wants to be taxed! Ugandans have already protested this silly tax... that on it's own tells you that it's MAIN STREAM... hebu tax unga uone... wananchi watakukujia.. utabeba placard kama ile Raila alibebeshwa na watu wa kibira That's the problem of small brains and a lot of nonsense about small rivers joining big rivers. If facebook decides not to pay for Kenyan viewership, I can bet you any money that other platforms will be smiling with glee to take up that space. Wacha fikira ndogo bwana . Absence of facebook ET al equals a vacuum for entrepreneurs to exploit. Why are Africans scared of making tough decisions that favour Africans. We would rather put VAT on medicines than tax facebook who is spying on us and using our data to make money. They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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tom_boy wrote:masukuma wrote:tom_boy wrote:M7 is brilliant to introduce social media tax. social media is such a distraction, should be classified a little lower than other social evils like smoking and alcohol. Social media , at some level has negative effects on the economy.
When I buy bread, I pay tax on the bread. The producer pays tax to produce the bread. The shop keeper also pays. basically, the way tax is structured, one gets to pay tax for anything that adds value to your life.
In social media, the only beneficiaries for far too long have been the facebook and instagram owners. they collect ad revenue and do not remit a cent to the country where the the ads were broadcast. They actually deplete goverment revenue because companies will claim the ad spend as a tax deductible expense.
Since social media seems to be adding some value to the individuals on it, its ok to tax them. This way, the goverment also benefits. The goverment should go a step further and impose an advertisement tax on all social media platforms that are active in our country. Yes, Google, whatsup, facebook etc should pay to Kenya goverment for the priviledge to allow kenyan eyes to look at their advertisements. Same way County govt charges fees for putting up a billboard.
What a bunch of really stupid people who don't understand simple concepts! This is what McReggae used to call thumping you bony chests... boss... it's small rivers that join big rivers! Have you seen a Google, whatsup, facebook advert on your TV trying to ask people to join it? this action hurts no one else but social media users and will result is social unrests in the countries it's implemented in. Kenya has about 7 million facebook users - so little that Facebook does not really care. How many offices does facebook have in africa? 1... in Joberg... for the over 1 billion people in africa... 1 office? please... know your place. your actions will destabilize your country and not make a blip on facebook's graph. Plus if people don't use internet to get to facebook, google, whatsapp - data ni ya nini? data is a huge cash earner for telcos and and in directly governments. hii upuzi ya double taxation ni nini? yes... When you buy bread you get taxed on bread... but how you CONSUME YOUR BREAD should not attract different taxes... ati when you eat your bread when cut... tax... when it's not cut.. hakuna tax. it's such a stupid idea. never heard anything like it. P.S. people don't survive just to make the economy grow... that's the greatest idolatry... people don't live for the economy! Secondly, governments tax what you are calling 'social evils' because they can get away with it... you will not see a bunch of people protesting gambling taxes or rights of smokers coz it's seen by the population as being 'evil'. - hata malaya hutaka kulipa tax ndio wafanye kazi yao mainstream - no mainstream thing wants to be taxed! Ugandans have already protested this silly tax... that on it's own tells you that it's MAIN STREAM... hebu tax unga uone... wananchi watakukujia.. utabeba placard kama ile Raila alibebeshwa na watu wa kibira That's the problem of small brains and a lot of nonsense about small rivers joining big rivers. If facebook decides not to pay for Kenyan viewership, I can bet you any money that other platforms will be smiling with glee to take up that space. Wacha fikira ndogo bwana . Absence of facebook ET al equals a vacuum for entrepreneurs to exploit. Why are Africans scared of making tough decisions that favour Africans. We would rather put VAT on medicines than tax facebook who is spying on us and using our data to make money. simple... it's because those decisions don't favour africans. they don't favour africans! they favour no one not the consumer... not the state... not facebook. it's all lose lose and small loss. Take it from me - Facebook will make money despite of your attempts to curtail it. Perhaps the more important questions to ask is will your state survive curtailing facebook? tembea ulize watu Egypt how those measures worked for them. PS. Facebook is a server seated somewhere - it's your users who seek it out - they don't come looking for you - it's your citizens who go looking for it. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo
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tom_boy wrote:masukuma wrote:tom_boy wrote:M7 is brilliant to introduce social media tax. social media is such a distraction, should be classified a little lower than other social evils like smoking and alcohol. Social media , at some level has negative effects on the economy.
When I buy bread, I pay tax on the bread. The producer pays tax to produce the bread. The shop keeper also pays. basically, the way tax is structured, one gets to pay tax for anything that adds value to your life.
In social media, the only beneficiaries for far too long have been the facebook and instagram owners. they collect ad revenue and do not remit a cent to the country where the the ads were broadcast. They actually deplete goverment revenue because companies will claim the ad spend as a tax deductible expense.
Since social media seems to be adding some value to the individuals on it, its ok to tax them. This way, the goverment also benefits. The goverment should go a step further and impose an advertisement tax on all social media platforms that are active in our country. Yes, Google, whatsup, facebook etc should pay to Kenya goverment for the priviledge to allow kenyan eyes to look at their advertisements. Same way County govt charges fees for putting up a billboard.
What a bunch of really stupid people who don't understand simple concepts! This is what McReggae used to call thumping you bony chests... boss... it's small rivers that join big rivers! Have you seen a Google, whatsup, facebook advert on your TV trying to ask people to join it? this action hurts no one else but social media users and will result is social unrests in the countries it's implemented in. Kenya has about 7 million facebook users - so little that Facebook does not really care. How many offices does facebook have in africa? 1... in Joberg... for the over 1 billion people in africa... 1 office? please... know your place. your actions will destabilize your country and not make a blip on facebook's graph. Plus if people don't use internet to get to facebook, google, whatsapp - data ni ya nini? data is a huge cash earner for telcos and and in directly governments. hii upuzi ya double taxation ni nini? yes... When you buy bread you get taxed on bread... but how you CONSUME YOUR BREAD should not attract different taxes... ati when you eat your bread when cut... tax... when it's not cut.. hakuna tax. it's such a stupid idea. never heard anything like it. P.S. people don't survive just to make the economy grow... that's the greatest idolatry... people don't live for the economy! Secondly, governments tax what you are calling 'social evils' because they can get away with it... you will not see a bunch of people protesting gambling taxes or rights of smokers coz it's seen by the population as being 'evil'. - hata malaya hutaka kulipa tax ndio wafanye kazi yao mainstream - no mainstream thing wants to be taxed! Ugandans have already protested this silly tax... that on it's own tells you that it's MAIN STREAM... hebu tax unga uone... wananchi watakukujia.. utabeba placard kama ile Raila alibebeshwa na watu wa kibira That's the problem of small brains and a lot of nonsense about small rivers joining big rivers. If facebook decides not to pay for Kenyan viewership, I can bet you any money that other platforms will be smiling with glee to take up that space. Wacha fikira ndogo bwana . Absence of facebook ET al equals a vacuum for entrepreneurs to exploit. Why are Africans scared of making tough decisions that favour Africans. We would rather put VAT on medicines than tax facebook who is spying on us and using our data to make money. Honestly, this statement about "the problem of small brains and a lot of nonsense"". You really should not have used it. Ati if Facebook decides not to pay for Kenyan viewership. Where exactly did you get the notion that FB pays for you to go and talk crap on their platform? Sasa wewe ni mjinga ama umezubaa tu? Taxing Wanjiru for using Whatsapp or FB will never ever affect FB in any way. Nowhere. Ama you think it is FB that is paying Museveni's tax? It is you not FB. FB shall never and charo nefa pay tax in Uganda. Not today not kesho not ever. Ni wewe tu na ngombe za museveni. Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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if you tax access to facebook - prepare to deal with Facebook users! Africans had a saying... BEFORE SWALLOWING A MANGO SEED - MAKE SURE YOU HAVE MEASURED THE DIAMETER OF YOUR ANUS. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
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masukuma wrote:tom_boy wrote:masukuma wrote:tom_boy wrote:M7 is brilliant to introduce social media tax. social media is such a distraction, should be classified a little lower than other social evils like smoking and alcohol. Social media , at some level has negative effects on the economy.
When I buy bread, I pay tax on the bread. The producer pays tax to produce the bread. The shop keeper also pays. basically, the way tax is structured, one gets to pay tax for anything that adds value to your life.
In social media, the only beneficiaries for far too long have been the facebook and instagram owners. they collect ad revenue and do not remit a cent to the country where the the ads were broadcast. They actually deplete goverment revenue because companies will claim the ad spend as a tax deductible expense.
Since social media seems to be adding some value to the individuals on it, its ok to tax them. This way, the goverment also benefits. The goverment should go a step further and impose an advertisement tax on all social media platforms that are active in our country. Yes, Google, whatsup, facebook etc should pay to Kenya goverment for the priviledge to allow kenyan eyes to look at their advertisements. Same way County govt charges fees for putting up a billboard.
What a bunch of really stupid people who don't understand simple concepts! This is what McReggae used to call thumping you bony chests... boss... it's small rivers that join big rivers! Have you seen a Google, whatsup, facebook advert on your TV trying to ask people to join it? this action hurts no one else but social media users and will result is social unrests in the countries it's implemented in. Kenya has about 7 million facebook users - so little that Facebook does not really care. How many offices does facebook have in africa? 1... in Joberg... for the over 1 billion people in africa... 1 office? please... know your place. your actions will destabilize your country and not make a blip on facebook's graph. Plus if people don't use internet to get to facebook, google, whatsapp - data ni ya nini? data is a huge cash earner for telcos and and in directly governments. hii upuzi ya double taxation ni nini? yes... When you buy bread you get taxed on bread... but how you CONSUME YOUR BREAD should not attract different taxes... ati when you eat your bread when cut... tax... when it's not cut.. hakuna tax. it's such a stupid idea. never heard anything like it. P.S. people don't survive just to make the economy grow... that's the greatest idolatry... people don't live for the economy! Secondly, governments tax what you are calling 'social evils' because they can get away with it... you will not see a bunch of people protesting gambling taxes or rights of smokers coz it's seen by the population as being 'evil'. - hata malaya hutaka kulipa tax ndio wafanye kazi yao mainstream - no mainstream thing wants to be taxed! Ugandans have already protested this silly tax... that on it's own tells you that it's MAIN STREAM... hebu tax unga uone... wananchi watakukujia.. utabeba placard kama ile Raila alibebeshwa na watu wa kibira That's the problem of small brains and a lot of nonsense about small rivers joining big rivers. If facebook decides not to pay for Kenyan viewership, I can bet you any money that other platforms will be smiling with glee to take up that space. Wacha fikira ndogo bwana . Absence of facebook ET al equals a vacuum for entrepreneurs to exploit. Why are Africans scared of making tough decisions that favour Africans. We would rather put VAT on medicines than tax facebook who is spying on us and using our data to make money. simple... it's because those decisions don't favour africans. they don't favour africans! they favour no one not the consumer... not the state... not facebook. it's all lose lose and small loss. Take it from me - Facebook will make money despite of your attempts to curtail it. Perhaps the more important questions to ask is will your state survive curtailing facebook? tembea ulize watu Egypt how those measures worked for them. PS. Facebook is a server seated somewhere - it's your users who seek it out - they don't come looking for you - it's your citizens who go looking for it. I think you are misguided. Facebook is a business. Period. It can be taxed. In fact, I believe facebook would rather pay tax and pass it on to advertisers who target Kenya than vacate the Kenyan space and risk competitors to gain hold and expand. Remember, as a business, if a competitor willing to pay the tax comes into Kenyan market, it won't be long before other African countries follow suite. Then we shall have an African version of facebook which facebook cannot dare risk. They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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tom_boy wrote:masukuma wrote:tom_boy wrote:masukuma wrote:tom_boy wrote:M7 is brilliant to introduce social media tax. social media is such a distraction, should be classified a little lower than other social evils like smoking and alcohol. Social media , at some level has negative effects on the economy.
When I buy bread, I pay tax on the bread. The producer pays tax to produce the bread. The shop keeper also pays. basically, the way tax is structured, one gets to pay tax for anything that adds value to your life.
In social media, the only beneficiaries for far too long have been the facebook and instagram owners. they collect ad revenue and do not remit a cent to the country where the the ads were broadcast. They actually deplete goverment revenue because companies will claim the ad spend as a tax deductible expense.
Since social media seems to be adding some value to the individuals on it, its ok to tax them. This way, the goverment also benefits. The goverment should go a step further and impose an advertisement tax on all social media platforms that are active in our country. Yes, Google, whatsup, facebook etc should pay to Kenya goverment for the priviledge to allow kenyan eyes to look at their advertisements. Same way County govt charges fees for putting up a billboard.
What a bunch of really stupid people who don't understand simple concepts! This is what McReggae used to call thumping you bony chests... boss... it's small rivers that join big rivers! Have you seen a Google, whatsup, facebook advert on your TV trying to ask people to join it? this action hurts no one else but social media users and will result is social unrests in the countries it's implemented in. Kenya has about 7 million facebook users - so little that Facebook does not really care. How many offices does facebook have in africa? 1... in Joberg... for the over 1 billion people in africa... 1 office? please... know your place. your actions will destabilize your country and not make a blip on facebook's graph. Plus if people don't use internet to get to facebook, google, whatsapp - data ni ya nini? data is a huge cash earner for telcos and and in directly governments. hii upuzi ya double taxation ni nini? yes... When you buy bread you get taxed on bread... but how you CONSUME YOUR BREAD should not attract different taxes... ati when you eat your bread when cut... tax... when it's not cut.. hakuna tax. it's such a stupid idea. never heard anything like it. P.S. people don't survive just to make the economy grow... that's the greatest idolatry... people don't live for the economy! Secondly, governments tax what you are calling 'social evils' because they can get away with it... you will not see a bunch of people protesting gambling taxes or rights of smokers coz it's seen by the population as being 'evil'. - hata malaya hutaka kulipa tax ndio wafanye kazi yao mainstream - no mainstream thing wants to be taxed! Ugandans have already protested this silly tax... that on it's own tells you that it's MAIN STREAM... hebu tax unga uone... wananchi watakukujia.. utabeba placard kama ile Raila alibebeshwa na watu wa kibira That's the problem of small brains and a lot of nonsense about small rivers joining big rivers. If facebook decides not to pay for Kenyan viewership, I can bet you any money that other platforms will be smiling with glee to take up that space. Wacha fikira ndogo bwana . Absence of facebook ET al equals a vacuum for entrepreneurs to exploit. Why are Africans scared of making tough decisions that favour Africans. We would rather put VAT on medicines than tax facebook who is spying on us and using our data to make money. simple... it's because those decisions don't favour africans. they don't favour africans! they favour no one not the consumer... not the state... not facebook. it's all lose lose and small loss. Take it from me - Facebook will make money despite of your attempts to curtail it. Perhaps the more important questions to ask is will your state survive curtailing facebook? tembea ulize watu Egypt how those measures worked for them. PS. Facebook is a server seated somewhere - it's your users who seek it out - they don't come looking for you - it's your citizens who go looking for it. I think you are misguided. Facebook is a business. Period. It can be taxed. In fact, I believe facebook would rather pay tax and pass it on to advertisers who target Kenya than vacate the Kenyan space and risk competitors to gain hold and expand. Remember, as a business, if a competitor willing to pay the tax comes into Kenyan market, it won't be long before other African countries follow suite. Then we shall have an African version of facebook which facebook cannot dare risk. Explain to me like you would to a 2 year old how the GOK would go about taxing FB, with no physical presence here. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
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I am not a techie. But I believe GoK can block facebook or any other site and make them pay a fee to be accessible in Kenya. I believe but stand to be corrected, that it's possible to track how much data is used up by facebook in the country. GoK can charge per byte. They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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tom_boy wrote:I am not a techie. But I believe GoK can block facebook or any other site and make them pay a fee to be accessible in Kenya. I believe but stand to be corrected, that it's possible to track how much data is used up by facebook in the country. GoK can charge per byte. Does facebook make money because you can view/create profiles or because advertisers use it to reach you? Taxation laws have not evolved in the technology era so there's nothing that the govt can do unless they ask FB to set up base in Kenya. Companies advertising using FB are actually shopping for the service in US or Ireland. So that tax goes to US/Ireland. Does Amazon get taxed for selling that book to you? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
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FB and other social media sites should be taxed. They take/ mine data from Kenyans and use that data to make profit. If they don't want to pay tax wakwende. I am sure Kenyan owned websites will gladly step into that advertising space and data mining space with glee.. In fact, a tax on FB ET al will improve the well being of Kenyan websites. We look down on ourselves too much. FB sio githeri ama omena They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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tom_boy wrote:FB and other social media sites should be taxed. They take/ mine data from Kenyans and use that data to make profit. If they don't want to pay tax wakwende. I am sure Kenyan owned websites will gladly step into that advertising space and data mining space with glee.. In fact, a tax on FB ET al will improve the well being of Kenyan websites.
We look down on ourselves too much. FB sio githeri ama omena
First define take... You voluntarily give your data just the same way you throw trash out there and the recycling companies make money out of it. How much money does facebook make from Kenyans? Sasa watakwenda wapi yet they aint here? You log into their servers to access the service. You as an individual can opt not to access it "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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it's very interesting to see people here thinking that they are the target of facebook... Let me assist people get some new wine skins so that they can take in this wine. the old wine skins will burst if you try to store this wine in it. Let me give you a simple explanation (analogy). Facebook is like a dance club - it's setup in the US... the business is registered there. it pays taxes there. it hires employees - there. They pay PAYE - there! You are like a dancer who uses a magical road (called the internet) to go to this club and get 'socialized' THERE... this road takes you near instantly to where you desire. clubs don't not come to you - you go to them. To go there - you need some fuel - this fuel is sold by ISPs... it's data. Gava always taxes this but once you have the fuel you can spend it anyway you want. You can go to this dance club called Facebook... or you can go to a strippers joint called Pornhub or some baraza place called Wazua and educate some people. But let's talk about this club called faceboook. unlike other clubs - Facebook doesn't charge you directly but when you are THERE - they show you ads. The first time you go there - they ask you to fill in a book at the entrance. your name, gender e.t.c. They use this data to show you things they think you should be buying (ads). The US government comes around and asks how much they have gotten from Ads shown TO EVERYONE who visited and get an amount (tax) from it. So what people consider the club making money from them and complaining is because they realised the registration data they left at the entrance and their behavior within the club is monetized. They don't get charged actual money for joining the service but facebook discovered a way to make sure they can show you enough ads to keep them afloat. There are over 200 roads that lead to this club and so what M7 has done is that because his government can BLOCK 1 ROAD - he charge you a toll to go THERE... to the dance club. People can find panya routes around the road block (vpns) but that's for the people who know how the road really works. Back to the toll - since this club services almost 2 billion people - it's not going to lift a finger to try and ask M7 to lift the toll. The people using this road are not as valuable to the club when compared to the value of the club to the people on this road. Sure... enterprenuers can start their own clubs behind the toll station - they have tried... they are trying. the problem is... clubs are not just buildings, tables and chairs! have you ever gone to a dance club on tuesday or monday nights? how is the atmosphere? I am sure it's just a couple of hookers and the bouncers there. for clubs to work you need something called NETWORK EFFECTS. People don't dance ALONE. you show up at a club and no one is in the dancing hall - you don't just go to the dancing hall and dance alone. Let me try and explain NETWORK EFFECTS. with MPESA as an example. Assume I came up with a technical solution... a code that replicated MPESA. what problems would stand on my way? first I will need to get customers to register... these customers need to register and send money to other customers. so if you are the 1st and only customer - the technology is not useful. if you are 2 customers who know each other you have some utility for the technology but the only value is that you can only send money to each other. if a 3rd person joins... it's a bit more interesting each person can send money to 2 people and the total number of possible channels increases to 3. a 4th person -adds another option to send money but the total number of possible channels has increased dramatically to 6, add one more to make 5 people - channels increase to 10 e.t.c. This my friend is what is known Metacalfe's law of NETWORK EFFECTS Imagine if you had the possibility of increasing this number to 1 billion people. (in reality humans can only be intimate with about 140 people "Dunbar's number" but each of those 1 billion people has to have a huge number of people they are interested in sending money to) it's the chicken and egg situation. everyone who has ever tried to build a club knows this... it's not the building IT'S THE PEOPLE. Another aspect of this business is that it's not just NETWORK EFFECTS of many people dancing... it's network effects of people willing to show ads. You need to ensure that you can tell them that you have X number of users who come often and they can profit from them. the X number has to be big enough for them if not they go down the road and spend their money on an established club. Think of Ad vendors as agents in MPESA - they don't want to wait until you build your network to a point where they can profit as long as there is MPESA down the road. They will go down the road and wait until you have X number of people that interest them. A couple of people have created clubs within their areas that have succeeded to capture some market but so far this one club has almost everyone from most countries. China blocked the road completely and has a toll station that filters everything. their local clubs are for 1.6 billion people who speak a strange language that no one speaks. Russia did not block the road but somehow managed to build a club that rivals the facebook club WITHIN their borders - they are hypergood at this thing and started it early. There is a general rule of thumb that seems to appear in the world of this magical roads - that when the dust is settled - the winner generally has 90% of the market. The second and third probably have a total combined 9% and every other player shares that remaining 1%. this rule is almost synonymous to Zipf's law. it's a business area filled with corpses of companies that tried and failed. So let's talk about the perils of your proposals - unlike other things. this club has some kind of dopamine inducing effect. The builders of the club studied psychology (Skinner, BJ Fogg e.t.c) and built a club that you will want to visit often and you get a dopamine shot when you come and see others. it's a club where you can be anyone who you want to be... brave if your are a coward in real life. beautiful if you are ugly in real life. witty if you are daft in real life. You can be rich there even though you are poor in real life. So your proposal to charge a toll for people who want to come get their shot of dopamine from facebook will be met by resistance by who? THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES. Meanwhile the club booms on as more people come and you hear the music and discover that it's booming without your people... guess what - They will protest and take your government down. That's why government should be careful about this roads thing. you limit people - you pay the price. Remember THE STATE IS A FICTIONAL CREATURE... it exists in our subconscious and if large numbers of us fail to recognize it's existence or authority - it loses authority. A certain government down the road headed by a guy called Mubarak decided to block the road and his 90 million people kicked him out. M7 has put a toll and his dopamine starved people have started protesting. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
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Long reply. Clearly FB is very emotive for some. However, the logic is very simple. People go to FB to enjoy. They should be taxed for that value add. When you go to a club, you both pay fuel to get there and buy stuff/drinks to enjoy n the club. These drinks are taxed. Only problem is that the FB product is not physical, but it still delivers enjoyment, therefore it should be taxed. FB is distracting. People can't work because of it. At some level it lowers individual productivity just like pombe.. That's a social evil. If the major club is shut down, a new club will come up. If FB goes, I am sure a new dominant player will come in, willing to pay tax. The only reason we don't have another mpesa operation is because mpesa is present. Remove the current mpesa and in 1 yr flat, people will not remember mpesa existed. Other players will have come in. Both the club owner (FB ET al) and club goers (@masukuma, @muchr ET al) should pay taxes. FB sio githeri ama omena. They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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tom_boy wrote:Long reply. Clearly FB is very emotive for some. However, the logic is very simple. People go to FB to enjoy. They should be taxed for that value add. When you go to a club, you both pay fuel to get there and buy stuff/drinks to enjoy n the club. These drinks are taxed. Only problem is that the FB product is not physical, but it still delivers enjoyment, therefore it should be taxed. Yes and it is being taxed...WHERE IT IS OPERATING FROM... THE US
FB is distracting. People can't work because of it. At some level it lowers individual productivity just like pombe.. That's a social evil. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS SOCIAL EVILS - THERE ARE ONLY 2 THINGS IN LIFE... WHAT YOU CAN DO AND WHAT YOU CAN'T DO. GOVERNMENT CAN GET AWAY WITH PENALIZING SMOKERS... CAN IT GET AWAY WITH PENALIZING FACEBOOK USERS? - I GUESS WE SHALL SEE.
If the major club is shut down, a new club will come up. If FB goes, ONLY THE US GOVERNMENT CAN SHUT IT DOWN - YOU CAN BLOCK ROADS FROM YOUR MTAAS TO PREVENT PEOPLE FROM GOING TO THE CLUB - THAT IS NOT 'SHUTTING DOWN FACEBOOK' IT'S JUST BLOCKING YOUR PEOPLE I am sure a new dominant player will come in, willing to pay tax. The only reason we don't have another mpesa operation is because mpesa is present. Remove the current mpesa and in 1 yr flat, people will not remember mpesa existed. Other players will have come in. KENYA GOVERNMENT CAN REMOVE MPESA NOT GOVERNMENT OF KIRIBATI BECAUSE MPESA OPERATES IN KENYA Both the club owner (FB ET al) and club goers (@masukuma, @muchr ET al) should pay taxes. FB sio githeri ama omena. FACEBOOK DOES PAY TAXES WHERE IT'S OPERATING FROM. YOU PAY TAXES FOR YOUR FUEL. IF YOU WANT TO TOLL PEOPLE WHO YOU ALREADY CHARGE TAX ON - SURE GO ON... LET'S SEE IF "FB sio githeri ama omena" All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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