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Why Burn Ksh. 20B Worth of Ivory?
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Mike Ock
#11 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 2:32:40 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/22/2015
Posts: 682
masukuma wrote:
I think we are at place in our existence where we are faced by counter intuitive evidence. In the US drug war has driven up drug prices and made the people with "distribution channels" rich! In europe - taking a different path to make sure that they even provide the drugs to addicts (clean syringes and all) has made it possible to almost kill the drug trade. It's counter intuitive!! Perhaps if We would collect all the ivory and then dump them in the market in China we would kill the trade. Coz its happening because someone has created an optimised distribution channel. I am unaware of a substance/product that has been killed by banning it. History has shown us that banning just creates other channels. the US had banned phombe for quite sometime - it never worked!


The amount of training, time and risk it takes to properly tranquilize and remove an elephant/rhino tusk is so high. That's why people opt to simply kill the beasts.
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Obi 1 Kanobi
#12 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 2:52:51 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
hardwood wrote:
The point is that you burn 20B of ivory and get 40B in return from the international community for conservation. And your name and reputation goes up for saving the planet.

Conversely, if you sell, you earn only 20B and go into the bad books of the international community as one who is encouraging ivory trade and extinction of species.

Applause Applause Applause

For once in my Wazua life I read something from you that I agree with.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Impunity
#13 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 4:13:48 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,331
Location: Masada
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
hardwood wrote:
The point is that you burn 20B of ivory and get 40B in return from the international community for conservation. And your name and reputation goes up for saving the planet.

Conversely, if you sell, you earn only 20B and go into the bad books of the international community as one who is encouraging ivory trade and extinction of species.

Applause Applause Applause

For once in my Wazua life I read something from you that I agree with.


Ame copy&paste word-for-word from a Nationmedia blog discussing the same story,from an anonymous handle.
Very cheap
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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masukuma
#14 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 4:20:59 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
Mike Ock wrote:
masukuma wrote:
I think we are at place in our existence where we are faced by counter intuitive evidence. In the US drug war has driven up drug prices and made the people with "distribution channels" rich! In europe - taking a different path to make sure that they even provide the drugs to addicts (clean syringes and all) has made it possible to almost kill the drug trade. It's counter intuitive!! Perhaps if We would collect all the ivory and then dump them in the market in China we would kill the trade. Coz its happening because someone has created an optimised distribution channel. I am unaware of a substance/product that has been killed by banning it. History has shown us that banning just creates other channels. the US had banned phombe for quite sometime - it never worked!


The amount of training, time and risk it takes to properly tranquilize and remove an elephant/rhino tusk is so high. That's why people opt to simply kill the beasts.

I am talking about "the war against [INSERT ILLEGAL THING HERE]" always creates more rich people around the illegal stuff coz the people who can master distribution rake in the cash. It happened with prostitution, alcohol and even drugs.


On Elephant Extinction (maybe this should be a post on it's own)... I have a very controversial position... it will seem sacrilegious to many people! I have always asked.... So Elephants get extinct... SO? Try and perceive a future without elephants.... what's is wrong with that future? So our kids don't see elephants - how many kids actually see elephants? So? I look back and I read stories of the Marsupial Tiger ! a recent extinction... do we cry about it? We should do conservation not for humans but rather for the species themselves. The reason we have game parks is not for tourism but rather for animals to live their lives there in the same way we live ours.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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harrydre
#15 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:31:43 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
Impunity wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
hardwood wrote:
The point is that you burn 20B of ivory and get 40B in return from the international community for conservation. And your name and reputation goes up for saving the planet.

Conversely, if you sell, you earn only 20B and go into the bad books of the international community as one who is encouraging ivory trade and extinction of species.

Applause Applause Applause

For once in my Wazua life I read something from you that I agree with.


Ame copy&paste word-for-word from a Nationmedia blog discussing the same story,from an anonymous handle.
Very cheap


Maybe he is the Anonymous!!
i.am.back!!!!
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Shak
#16 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 10:46:13 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/22/2009
Posts: 2,449
Location: Africa
I hope nobody pulls a Kabogo during the burning
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mkeiy
#17 Posted : Friday, April 29, 2016 7:31:26 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
I think we are at place in our existence where we are faced by counter intuitive evidence. In the US drug war has driven up drug prices and made the people with "distribution channels" rich! In europe - taking a different path to make sure that they even provide the drugs to addicts (clean syringes and all) has made it possible to almost kill the drug trade. It's counter intuitive!! Perhaps if We would collect all the ivory and then dump them in the market in China we would kill the trade. Coz its happening because someone has created an optimised distribution channel. I am unaware of a substance/product that has been killed by banning it. History has shown us that banning just creates other channels. the US had banned phombe for quite sometime - it never worked!



@Masukuma, Totally agree on the ivory part. If we are doing all this for the elephant, then selling the ivory hence flooding the market for the next couple of years would lower demand of "fresh ivory". That would boast the elephant population significantly.
The money from the ivory sale can be used for conservation efforts.

Getting more cash than ivory sale just because we'll appear to be purists in conservation, betrays our intent. Doing it for our name[tourism] rather than the elephant.

On drugs, i don't think flooding the market is the solution.
Unlike ivory, where protecting the product [read elephant] is the objective, with drugs, you are trying to protect the user/consumer. Killing the drug trade/trader is not the main objective.
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washiku
#18 Posted : Friday, April 29, 2016 8:50:57 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
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Swenani
#19 Posted : Friday, April 29, 2016 9:23:05 AM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
mkeiy wrote:
masukuma wrote:
I think we are at place in our existence where we are faced by counter intuitive evidence. In the US drug war has driven up drug prices and made the people with "distribution channels" rich! In europe - taking a different path to make sure that they even provide the drugs to addicts (clean syringes and all) has made it possible to almost kill the drug trade. It's counter intuitive!! Perhaps if We would collect all the ivory and then dump them in the market in China we would kill the trade. Coz its happening because someone has created an optimised distribution channel. I am unaware of a substance/product that has been killed by banning it. History has shown us that banning just creates other channels. the US had banned phombe for quite sometime - it never worked!



@Masukuma, Totally agree on the ivory part. If we are doing all this for the elephant, then selling the ivory hence flooding the market for the next couple of years would lower demand of "fresh ivory". That would boast the elephant population significantly.
The money from the ivory sale can be used for conservation efforts.

Getting more cash than ivory sale just because we'll appear to be purists in conservation, betrays our intent. Doing it for our name[tourism] rather than the elephant.

On drugs, i don't think flooding the market is the solution.
Unlike ivory, where protecting the product [read elephant] is the objective, with drugs, you are trying to protect the user/consumer. Killing the drug trade/trader is not the main objective.


I saw this proposition from X.N Iraki of flooding market with Ivory,I do not think it's tenable solution.

Will we be able to flood the market with ivory every year? What if the volume of demand increases?

An elephant carries a baby for 2 years and then takes care of it for another 4 years. How many elephants do we have in kenya?
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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obiero
#20 Posted : Sunday, May 01, 2016 5:45:03 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 14,318
Location: nairobi
Swenani wrote:
masukuma wrote:
I think we are at place in our existence where we are faced by counter intuitive evidence. In the US drug war has driven up drug prices and made the people with "distribution channels" rich! In europe - taking a different path to make sure that they even provide the drugs to addicts (clean syringes and all) has made it possible to almost kill the drug trade. It's counter intuitive!! Perhaps if We would collect all the ivory and then dump them in the market in China we would kill the trade. Coz its happening because someone has created an optimised distribution channel. I am unaware of a substance/product that has been killed by banning it. History has shown us that banning just creates other channels. the US had banned phombe for quite sometime - it never worked!


How do we handle corruption using counter intuitive? Have everyone giving and taking bribes or legalize and tax it?

This Problem is caused by unreasonable fees for offences. Drunk driving should be costly but why charge 5k for obstruction or 20k for over speeding at 65km/h!!!!!!!!
COOP, IMH, KEGN, KQ, MTNU
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