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Gathige
#11 Posted : Tuesday, December 01, 2015 2:09:40 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 2,242
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
mkenyan wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
businesspundit wrote:
So what is the work of the auditor? To rubber-stamp results and then to change the headline of company's colorful financial statement from "Unaudited results" to "Audited results"? Even me with no accounting, I can do that with MS Word. Just tell me where to rubber stamp and I will charge only half price.

You'd have to do a forensic audit if you treat board and management as suspects

seems like in kenya we then need both 'audited returns' and 'forensic-audited returns'.


Britam are hiring:
Forensic Auditor
Quote:
Job Purpose: Proactively preventing, detecting and investigating frauds for the Group
- See more at: http://careers.britam.co...25#sthash.Ccokvfui.dpuf



Forensic audit is not statutory but the management can action it to help manage risk. The day to day operations team headed by te CEO remains overall responsible for ensuring controls to manage risks are in place and working properly.

BTW is very hard to fix an auditor as a complaint has to be done to their professional body who at all time will defend their own.
"Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
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morre
#12 Posted : Tuesday, December 01, 2015 2:43:12 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 1/5/2011
Posts: 93
businesspundit wrote:
So what is the work of the auditor? To rubber-stamp results and then to change the headline of company's colorful financial statement from "Unaudited results" to "Audited results"? Even me with no accounting, I can do that with MS Word. Just tell me where to rubber stamp and I will charge only half price.


Please look at the auditors' report page of any audited financial statements and read out the responsibilities of an auditor. and those of management. Very clear.

ION.... going forward year ending 2016... management will be required to disclose very specific management and director details. Salaries and also key matters affecting the business during the year ended and future outlook. e.t.c Auditors will also have to comment on the same.. so expect a 4 or 5 page report.... reference changes in ISA 701 (and ISA 700) together with the changes in the companies act.
If you dont want to use plan B, have a good plan A.
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businesspundit
#13 Posted : Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:00:58 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 9/16/2015
Posts: 15
It seems that management has passed the buck over to the auditors. Now auditors have passed the buck over to 'forensic auditors'. So, forensic auditors, the buck stops with you. (unless you pass it). Can you forensic auditors confirm?

From now on when I see 'Unaudited results" statemtent, I will ignore, when I see "Audited results statemet" , I will roll my eyes. Only when i see "forensic audited results" is when I will buy a stock. (Assuming forensic auditor has not also been compromised).
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Othelo
#14 Posted : Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:19:39 PM
Rank: User

Joined: 1/20/2014
Posts: 3,528
Auditors in the house, let us agree that the young audit boys/girls ... Audit whatever sent to carry out the actual audit normally unearth these thieving, frauds and cookings.

But when they raise the issues, the matters are taken over by the overall wadosi who meet in some cafe somewhere with management and agree to relax as the matter is being looked into. That is the sad reality and many here know that!!!!
Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
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Swenani
#15 Posted : Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:38:13 PM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
Angelica _ann wrote:
So at what point would auditors be liable or their work is cosmetic?



Auditors are supposed to express an opinion on the truth and fairness of financial statements.

If you can prove that unqualified audit opinion doesn't represent the true and fair position of financials statements,then the auditors are professionally liable.

So yes,the are culpablein uchumi case since they provided unqualified opinion on misleading financial statements and position of the firm
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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WWW
  | | Edit by user: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 4:01 PM | Reason: Not specified
Swenani
#16 Posted : Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:42:15 PM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
businesspundit wrote:
So what is the work of the auditor? To rubber-stamp results and then to change the headline of company's colorful financial statement from "Unaudited results" to "Audited results"? Even me with no accounting, I can do that with MS Word. Just tell me where to rubber stamp and I will charge only half price.


Simply put,Auditors work is to express an opinion(true or false) on the financial statements presented by the management.That opinion should be based on some audit procedures
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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shiznit
#17 Posted : Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:45:10 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 5/21/2013
Posts: 72
Location: KENYA
morre wrote:
businesspundit wrote:
So what is the work of the auditor? To rubber-stamp results and then to change the headline of company's colorful financial statement from "Unaudited results" to "Audited results"? Even me with no accounting, I can do that with MS Word. Just tell me where to rubber stamp and I will charge only half price.


Please look at the auditors' report page of any audited financial statements and read out the responsibilities of an auditor. and those of management. Very clear.

ION.... going forward year ending 2016... management will be required to disclose very specific management and director details. Salaries and also key matters affecting the business during the year ended and future outlook. e.t.c Auditors will also have to comment on the same.. so expect a 4 or 5 page report.... reference changes in ISA 701 (and ISA 700) together with the changes in the companies act.



What exactly are these changes to ISA 701 and 700? Because I know the new Companies Act still retains the same old auditor statement as whether the accounts give "a true and fair view" of the company.
“The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.” - John Maynard Keynes
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Emerger
#18 Posted : Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:46:12 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 12/1/2014
Posts: 45
Location: Nairobi
businesspundit wrote:
It seems that management has passed the buck over to the auditors. Now auditors have passed the buck over to 'forensic auditors'. So, forensic auditors, the buck stops with you. (unless you pass it). Can you forensic auditors confirm?

From now on when I see 'Unaudited results" statemtent, I will ignore, when I see "Audited results statemet" , I will roll my eyes. Only when i see "forensic audited results" is when I will buy a stock. (Assuming forensic auditor has not also been compromised).


Each party has his responsilibility outlined. From the times of Enron et al, every failure is routed to the auditor 1st before the truth is revealed simply because its expected he will give an opinion of the corporates financials health and truthfulness. His opinion is purely based on information provided by the management and where in his professional view the materiality of the information not provided which he states.
Management (executive) read in conjunction with directors are the main teams behind the organizations financial health.

That notwithstanding, its very critical nowadays for any independent party (read auditors) to understand the business of the client and the risks universe of such business. This will go along way in enhancing effectiveness.
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Swenani
#19 Posted : Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:50:44 PM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
Othelo wrote:
Auditors in the house, let us agree that the young audit boys/girls ... Audit whatever sent to carry out the actual audit normally unearth these thieving, frauds and cookings.

But when they raise the issues, the matters are taken over by the overall wadosi who meet in some cafe somewhere with management and agree to relax as the matter is being looked into. That is the sad reality and many here know that!!!!


When audit firm sends in fresh graduates with an audit manager who doesnt know how a DR and CR looks in the system, you can't expect much from them.

Some auditors usually ask for the transactions in T-account format the way they were taught in school.

I think it should be mandatory for auditors to be accountants first before becoming auditors(whether audit trainers,audit seniors or practicing auditors).

Most auditors carry out their work based on theoretical knowledge taught in school. If you dump transactions listing from you accounting system to the auditors,most of them will be shy to ask for clarification/or explanation in understanding them since they do not want to appear clueless because they are from the big 4
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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VituVingiSana
#20 Posted : Tuesday, December 01, 2015 6:19:34 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,350
Location: Nairobi
Swenani wrote:
Othelo wrote:
Auditors in the house, let us agree that the young audit boys/girls ... Audit whatever sent to carry out the actual audit normally unearth these thieving, frauds and cookings.

But when they raise the issues, the matters are taken over by the overall wadosi who meet in some cafe somewhere with management and agree to relax as the matter is being looked into. That is the sad reality and many here know that!!!!


When audit firm sends in fresh graduates with an audit manager who doesnt know how a DR and CR looks in the system, you can't expect much from them.

Some auditors usually ask for the transactions in T-account format the way they were taught in school.

I think it should be mandatory for auditors to be accountants first before becoming auditors(whether audit trainers,audit seniors or practicing auditors).

Most auditors carry out their work based on theoretical knowledge taught in school. If you dump transactions listing from you accounting system to the auditors,most of them will be shy to ask for clarification/or explanation in understanding them since they do not want to appear clueless because they are from the big 4

Applies to many professions! Folks are afraid to ask questions lest they appear stupid.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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