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The Acorn Saga - Britam vs Cytonn
Rank: Member Joined: 5/21/2014 Posts: 184
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mv_ufanisi wrote:2012 wrote:newfarer wrote:is what dande did ethical?
stealing employee and clients from your employer
acorn sounds like a rebellious son to Britam.
britam can still make money if they had signed a contract with acorn.
lesson:
employees are the most important asset in any organization. Dande did not steal employees, they moved out together to form Cytonn. It's very ethical. I think this is a culture that Kenyans should start to embrace. Employment is the part of the journey where you go to gain experience and capital then move. The only reason why this happened is because of poor regulatory oversight in Kenya (inefficient, lazy and corrupt courts and CMA inaction). Kenyans have got into the habit of justifying the unjustifiable. It's totally unethical and illegal for an employee to take over a company's customer list let alone a project that the company had paid that employee to work on and allocated them with resources such as an office, their brand name etc to engage with the client less than a few weeks later. ED and crew may have gained in the short term but this could come to bite them in the behind. Would any sane company ever hire such people? That is making a big assumption that they will want to get hired again in the future. Methinks, once you go fully into entrepreneurship there's no going back to employment. There are too many opportunities all around. Open your eyes and maybe you'll spot one
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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actuarywahisa wrote:mv_ufanisi wrote:2012 wrote:newfarer wrote:is what dande did ethical?
stealing employee and clients from your employer
acorn sounds like a rebellious son to Britam.
britam can still make money if they had signed a contract with acorn.
lesson:
employees are the most important asset in any organization. Dande did not steal employees, they moved out together to form Cytonn. It's very ethical. I think this is a culture that Kenyans should start to embrace. Employment is the part of the journey where you go to gain experience and capital then move. The only reason why this happened is because of poor regulatory oversight in Kenya (inefficient, lazy and corrupt courts and CMA inaction). Kenyans have got into the habit of justifying the unjustifiable. It's totally unethical and illegal for an employee to take over a company's customer list let alone a project that the company had paid that employee to work on and allocated them with resources such as an office, their brand name etc to engage with the client less than a few weeks later. ED and crew may have gained in the short term but this could come to bite them in the behind. Would any sane company ever hire such people? That is making a big assumption that they will want to get hired again in the future. Methinks, once you go fully into entrepreneurship there's no going back to employment. I'm kinda of the same opinion with actuarywahisa. If you are a hospital and have employed a certain doctor with a certain speciality, when he moves out and clients move with him/her, will you consider that unethical? I think business is cut-throat and employers need to mitigate against this by having tighter contracts with their clients to protect themselves otherwise it's an open field.
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/5/2007 Posts: 627
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There are many precedents to what Ed and team did:
1. Viva Africa came from Deloitte. 3 Tax directors left and took with them several big clients. No kerfuffle about stealing clients. The clients were at Deloitte primarily because of the 3 guys.
2. Maonga Ndonye Advocates also came from Deloitte with several clients sourced by Maonga and Daniel Ndonye.
3. The Late Anthony Githuku left Business Connexion to start Techgen and took some of his former clients there with him.
And many more. If I was a client of BAAM during Ed's tenure and I was happy with his performance, then he left to start his own outfit, I would follow him without batting an eyelid. Happens everyday in professional services.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/8/2007 Posts: 808
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Arguments i am reading here are quite hollow and very bar talkish. Wait for the actual information before making any conclusions, you all may have very interesting comments to make. No point commenting strongly without an iota of information as is quite apparent.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/28/2014 Posts: 149 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:as i have mentioned severally and gone on to reveal a complete list.. there are only twenty fully ethical firms at the NSE @Obiero - Where is this list of ethical firms. Point me to the link, please. When you live for others' opinions, you are dead.
- Carlos Slim Helu
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/28/2014 Posts: 149 Location: Nairobi
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Sasha wrote:@mv_ufanisi: While it is unethical, it happens everyday in all industries and is especially prevalent in financial services, professional services and ICT. Note that Ed did not poach anyone. Liz, Shiv and Patricia all quit voluntarily.
BAAM would be ill advised to take this to court as no court can compel Acorn to retain them as transaction advisors. They would also have to prove that Cytonn somehow convinced Acorn to move their business. Remember they are still owners at Acorn and they will have been notified (I presume) of this change.
As selah says, Cytonn could very well be a front for BAAM in some boardroom musical chairs. However from the grapevine, Ed's departure (as well as the other 3) from BAAM was not amicable. Yup. In fact if what's on the grapevine has an iota of truth, a client following Cytonn should do their due diligence before they follow. When you live for others' opinions, you are dead.
- Carlos Slim Helu
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/8/2007 Posts: 808
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Always very hard to wish away the truth. What's sickening is how unethical our media has become. All you need is some money fo grease editors and journalists and you can say all the nice things you wish about yaself. Soon it will be evident anyway.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/27/2010 Posts: 951 Location: Nyumbani
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On the other side , there are jobs to be created here , unless BAAM fires a few people because business has gone down , then its just good news because these akoonn guys will not be three in the company they will need secretaries, guys in IT , clerks majamaa wa kufagia etc .This is good for the economy.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/26/2012 Posts: 985 Location: Dar es salaam,Tanzania
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murchr wrote:Mr Market punished Britam to the max Thursday. Wacha tuone kesho Time to buy for quick short term gains Remember when equity CFO resigned and the stock dipped.
“The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.”
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/21/2013 Posts: 2,841 Location: Here
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What is to be said of the personal rapport and trust that a client develops with the actual fellows handling their job and with whom they are in constant contact in the course of performance? Does this count for anything? If it does, is it in order to then require the client to start developing new relationships with new people when the employees leave, yet the self-same employees are capable of performing/implementing the project as originally envisioned? Life is like playing a violin solo in public and learning the instrument as one goes on.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Metasploit wrote:murchr wrote:Mr Market punished Britam to the max Thursday. Wacha tuone kesho Time to buy for quick short term gains Remember when equity CFO resigned and the stock dipped. Fundamentally, the stock is still expensive and with the news that its losing business......mmmh!!! Maybe the seemingly "Cheap" price will play well with the psychologically. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/21/2010 Posts: 6,183 Location: nairobi
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I support anybody who breaks the chains of employment slavery to be on his own and create employment to others by trying new ventures,why continue channeling money to others when you can do it independently?? "Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 9/12/2014 Posts: 31
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Cytonn directors' accounts now frozen. And the saga continues. http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Br...6/-/mvg805z/-/index.html
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/5/2011 Posts: 125
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The siege is on... As sharp as this quartet is, this one will make them sweat. Nothing new under the sun, though - I think they'll come out tops
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,102 Location: Nairobi
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Wow! This is going to be a dirty fight where no-one will come out clean. Will BAAM have to write off the KES 3.9bn while it waits? How does an investor/client of BAAM feel when he reads that KES 3.9bn was siphoned or mis-allocated from BAAM's accounts? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,908
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What is Britam telling us about their policies, systems and risk management among 'other' issues. In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/15/2010 Posts: 454 Location: Nairobi
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Old Money vs New Money battle Royale, List of the company accounts frozen by the court order is mind boggling, did the judge consider the impact of his order which will halt activities/operations of the affected companies as the wheel of 'justice' grind at its pace. ....He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion..
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,905
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tinker wrote:Old Money vs New Money battle...
Wait, hold-up, I see the old money, 3.9bn of it. Where's the new money... Old Money vs New Leverage Old Money vs New Dealings Old Money vs House of cards And the talk of mediation, what mediation! If you've upset the funder, just return the money.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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tinker wrote:Old Money vs New Money battle Royale, List of the company accounts frozen by the court order is mind boggling, did the judge consider the impact of his order which will halt activities/operations of the affected companies as the wheel of 'justice' grind at its pace. What would you have wanted him to do?Normal procedure...it would be out of the norm if he dint freeze the accounts. possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/16/2011 Posts: 2,297
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Britam runs after cytton to get what was taken from it. The best thing is that it will now punish Cytton like a mother caning a naughty son
This is what we call thieving or fraud. This is a case that would teach Cytton a lesson as CBK, CMA, Anti- corruption commission will get involved to solve and punish corporate fraud.
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The Acorn Saga - Britam vs Cytonn
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