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State of Poverty in Kenya
Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,635
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Rankaz13 wrote: The one thing I noticed about them is that they are extremely hard working people and I dare say this: they do not need gov't handouts, convinced as some of us are about the same. Give these guys water for irrigation and watch them impress you with the level of hard work they're ready to put in to get the harvest. These guys are some of the hardest working Kenyans I ever met and honestly, our gov't has failed them big time!! You are exactly right. I am old enough to remember a time when the area around Machakos to Makueni was a semi desert. Then one day people woke and decided to plant trees, build gabions etc. True, Moi got on the gabion bandwagon, but he did not create it. They changed the environment. I remember thinking; given a chance, what can these people not do? I worked for years in Luo Nyanza. Those days Homa Bay District did not have a single inch of tarmac to its name. It used to take a whole day to cover the 100Km to Magunga. Same problem - talented, hard working people, good soil and (for Nyanza) plenty of water and fish to die for. Yet the highest poverty and malnutrition rates in the country. I used to get so angry I could go wild. Then I would hear people say we can't blame government. Well, what do have government for if not for challenges such as this? "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/21/2013 Posts: 2,841 Location: Here
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Deleted.Life is like playing a violin solo in public and learning the instrument as one goes on.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/21/2013 Posts: 2,841 Location: Here
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Wakanyugi wrote:Rankaz13 wrote: The one thing I noticed about them is that they are extremely hard working people and I dare say this: they do not need gov't handouts, convinced as some of us are about the same. Give these guys water for irrigation and watch them impress you with the level of hard work they're ready to put in to get the harvest. These guys are some of the hardest working Kenyans I ever met and honestly, our gov't has failed them big time!! You are exactly right. I am old enough to remember a time when the area around Machakos to Makueni was a semi desert. Then one day people woke and decided to plant trees, build gabions etc. True, Moi got on the gabion bandwagon, but he did not create it. They changed the environment. I remember thinking; given a chance, what can these people not do? I worked for years in Luo Nyanza. Those days Homa Bay District did not have a single inch of tarmac to its name. It used to take a whole day to cover the 100Km to Magunga. Same problem - talented, hard working people, good soil and (for Nyanza) plenty of water and fish to die for. Yet the highest poverty and malnutrition rates in the country. I used to get so angry I could go wild. Then I would hear people say we can't blame government. Well, what do have government for if not for challenges such as this? So true. I always say, there's what the gov't can and should do e.g provision of infrastructure and there's what I can do as an individual e.g. putting in personal effort to utilize what infrastructure has been so provided. Like in the example you just gave, it could be that there were people ready and willing to invest in transport on that 100km stretch but such an investment will not become a reality till the road condition is improved. And who better to do that than the gov't? In order for us to move forward, we will require to come up with and implement some innovative and revolutionary ideas. I've once watched a documentary about Nepal, a country said to be poorer than Kenya and located up in the Himalayas. Yet their gov't is doing wonders to promote uptake of solar and biogas energy in an effort to light up remote villagers and improve academic performance. Na hapa kwetu je? We keep complaining of deforestation yet there doesn't seem to be any official concerted effort to promote or even at the very least educate our people on the wonders of biogas energy. And yet, in almost all our rural areas, we rear all manner of domestic animals. Why is this? Don't even get me started on solar. I still don't understand why we haven't used it to light up our streets and alleyways in the estates where we live. Life is like playing a violin solo in public and learning the instrument as one goes on.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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Rankaz13 wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Rankaz13 wrote: The one thing I noticed about them is that they are extremely hard working people and I dare say this: they do not need gov't handouts, convinced as some of us are about the same. Give these guys water for irrigation and watch them impress you with the level of hard work they're ready to put in to get the harvest. These guys are some of the hardest working Kenyans I ever met and honestly, our gov't has failed them big time!! You are exactly right. I am old enough to remember a time when the area around Machakos to Makueni was a semi desert. Then one day people woke and decided to plant trees, build gabions etc. True, Moi got on the gabion bandwagon, but he did not create it. They changed the environment. I remember thinking; given a chance, what can these people not do? I worked for years in Luo Nyanza. Those days Homa Bay District did not have a single inch of tarmac to its name. It used to take a whole day to cover the 100Km to Magunga. Same problem - talented, hard working people, good soil and (for Nyanza) plenty of water and fish to die for. Yet the highest poverty and malnutrition rates in the country. I used to get so angry I could go wild. Then I would hear people say we can't blame government. Well, what do have government for if not for challenges such as this? So true. I always say, there's what the gov't can and should do e.g provision of infrastructure and there's what I can do as an individual e.g. putting in personal effort to utilize what infrastructure has been so provided. Like in the example you just gave, it could be that there were people ready and willing to invest in transport on that 100km stretch but such an investment will not become a reality till the road condition is improved. And who better to do that than the gov't? In order for us to move forward, we will require to come up with and implement some innovative and revolutionary ideas. I've once watched a documentary about Nepal, a country said to be poorer than Kenya and located up in the Himalayas. Yet their gov't is doing wonders to promote uptake of solar and biogas energy in an effort to light up remote villagers and improve academic performance. Na hapa kwetu je? We keep complaining of deforestation yet there doesn't seem to be any official concerted effort to promote or even at the very least educate our people on the wonders of biogas energy. And yet, in almost all our rural areas, we rear all manner of domestic animals. Why is this? Don't even get me started on solar. I still don't understand why we haven't used it to light up our streets and alleyways in the estates where we live. Mmmmh why do we still have extremely poor people amongst us?Isnt the answer obvious...and many of you have said it...bad leadership,from independence things started going hay wire I dont know where this culture of we must eat came from but it hit us hard and thats where the rain started hitting us hard but we cant reverse or dwell in the past so lets forge ahead... How hard is it to map out those who are in real need,and find a way of directly giving incentives to them,why should someone earning 500k buy unga the same price with their watchman who takes home 8k there is no fairness in this...we let laissez faire take over the show and our supposedly "managed economy" took a backseat...The govt should make the basics available to everyone...food should be in plenty and reasonably priced,shelter should be affordable to all this issue of shanties and tin houses should be something of the past... Tighten up on govt spending i.e on unnecessarry things like luxury cars I always complain about this every time I bring up this topic its coz I see every new day new mercs being bought unnecessarry expenditure this money should be used to provide a saftey net for the poor instead of being wasted... A govts role should be equitable distribution of wealth but in our case it never does this... Eradication of poverty can be quite easy if we have the will power but it can be a herculean task if we dont... Someone explain to me why solar panels cost an arm and a leg?? possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/31/2013 Posts: 109
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maka wrote:Rankaz13 wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Rankaz13 wrote: The one thing I noticed about them is that they are extremely hard working people and I dare say this: they do not need gov't handouts, convinced as some of us are about the same. Give these guys water for irrigation and watch them impress you with the level of hard work they're ready to put in to get the harvest. These guys are some of the hardest working Kenyans I ever met and honestly, our gov't has failed them big time!! You are exactly right. I am old enough to remember a time when the area around Machakos to Makueni was a semi desert. Then one day people woke and decided to plant trees, build gabions etc. True, Moi got on the gabion bandwagon, but he did not create it. They changed the environment. I remember thinking; given a chance, what can these people not do? I worked for years in Luo Nyanza. Those days Homa Bay District did not have a single inch of tarmac to its name. It used to take a whole day to cover the 100Km to Magunga. Same problem - talented, hard working people, good soil and (for Nyanza) plenty of water and fish to die for. Yet the highest poverty and malnutrition rates in the country. I used to get so angry I could go wild. Then I would hear people say we can't blame government. Well, what do have government for if not for challenges such as this? So true. I always say, there's what the gov't can and should do e.g provision of infrastructure and there's what I can do as an individual e.g. putting in personal effort to utilize what infrastructure has been so provided. Like in the example you just gave, it could be that there were people ready and willing to invest in transport on that 100km stretch but such an investment will not become a reality till the road condition is improved. And who better to do that than the gov't? In order for us to move forward, we will require to come up with and implement some innovative and revolutionary ideas. I've once watched a documentary about Nepal, a country said to be poorer than Kenya and located up in the Himalayas. Yet their gov't is doing wonders to promote uptake of solar and biogas energy in an effort to light up remote villagers and improve academic performance. Na hapa kwetu je? We keep complaining of deforestation yet there doesn't seem to be any official concerted effort to promote or even at the very least educate our people on the wonders of biogas energy. And yet, in almost all our rural areas, we rear all manner of domestic animals. Why is this? Don't even get me started on solar. I still don't understand why we haven't used it to light up our streets and alleyways in the estates where we live. Mmmmh why do we still have extremely poor people amongst us?Isnt the answer obvious...and many of you have said it...bad leadership,from independence things started going hay wire I dont know where this culture of we must eat came from but it hit us hard and thats where the rain started hitting us hard but we cant reverse or dwell in the past so lets forge ahead... How hard is it to map out those who are in real need,and find a way of directly giving incentives to them,why should someone earning 500k buy unga the same price with their watchman who takes home 8k there is no fairness in this...we let laissez faire take over the show and our supposedly "managed economy" took a backseat...The govt should make the basics available to everyone...food should be in plenty and reasonably priced,shelter should be affordable to all this issue of shanties and tin houses should be something of the past... Tighten up on govt spending i.e on unnecessarry things like luxury cars I always complain about this every time I bring up this topic its coz I see every new day new mercs being bought unnecessarry expenditure this money should be used to provide a saftey net for the poor instead of being wasted... A govts role should be equitable distribution of wealth but in our case it never does this... Eradication of poverty can be quite easy if we have the will power but it can be a herculean task if we dont... Someone explain to me why solar panels cost an arm and a leg?? Did man really go to the moon? Did bin Laden really destroy the twin towers? Some answers are not worth pursuing. Just accept and move on.
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/5/2009 Posts: 597
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Until when will we be told to accept and move on!!!!!!!!. My gut feeling tells me that the solution to poverty and by extension health and literacy levels is answered by one word Agriculture. I make it bold coz i believe and know its the solution. Like 1.People will be well fed and strong to work for more food.- Production Cycle . 2.With more/excess produce there will be need for markets- Trade will be inspired. 3.With trade means households will be getting income thus able to afford healthcare leading to a healthy nation. 4.Well fed,a bit of income and healthy the young populace will concentrate in school and do well to promote innovation. A pet example i will provide Kenyans for Kenyans-though there were misgivings of some money being mismanaged,some tangible work was done and today the once arid vast land is full of greens and people able to feed.How i wish on local TV station would document progress cycle from Kenyans contributing to the current state and we would go like Waooh that so beautiful and strive to replicate what has proven to work in Kenya by Kenyans. ****Disclaimer i don't work for Red Cross. ****I am a concerned Kenyan seeing the suffering and solutions being disregarded. The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts while the stupid ones are full of confidence
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/17/2011 Posts: 627 Location: Mbui-Nzau, Kikumbulyu
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if Kenyan's don't organized them selves into viable livelihood communities they will be dominated by others esp in the wider E.African community..and they will be playing trying-to-catch-up..and it could be too late ..the thing is to organize and do...and stop talking
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,635
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tycho wrote:
How do we determine 'those who can't help themselves'? How many can't help themselves? How did they get to such a condition?
How do we determine those who are reach and refuse to pay taxes, to the point that we can target single individuals and go after them? [/quote]Why and how is giving them money a solution. Certainly lack of money is lack of markets, and isn't nonsense.[/quote] I am sure this question has been adequately answered? My turn. Kenya has one of the highest gini coefficient for wealth distribution in the world. Under what what law, principle, premise...whatever, is a situation where so few have so much while the majority die of poverty right? "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi
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Its a two way traffic..
Citizens organise themselves.. government picks up and does its bit.. either party waiting for the other is a black hole...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:
How do we determine 'those who can't help themselves'? How many can't help themselves? How did they get to such a condition?
How do we determine those who are reach and refuse to pay taxes, to the point that we can target single individuals and go after them? Why and how is giving them money a solution. Certainly lack of money is lack of markets, and isn't nonsense.[/quote] I am sure this question has been adequately answered? My turn. Kenya has one of the highest gini coefficient for wealth distribution in the world. Under what what law, principle, premise...whatever, is a situation where so few have so much while the majority die of poverty right? [/quote] You are saying that because it's easy to identify a conspicuous consumer then it's easy to identify one who has no money to spend, and therefore, the man with no money needs to be given money so that he can spend. But what if the man is living in an alternative economy? Because we are certainly not talking of a sick man here, or are we? The market entails social interactions and is always amenable to what we may call the 'forces of history'. So the world that Mr. Cheserem was shown shocked him. He was seeing people whose access to information was severely impaired. Wealth is about flowing with information, not spending. And who can deny that information flow has been gradual, and that now more than ever, is evening out at an incredible pace. Now even children are joining the clubs of the wealthy. Governments no longer have control of information. They are even struggling to keep abreast. We can't ask governments to guarantee livelihood. I doubt whether poverty can exist in a richly connected world. Those who interconnect the world meet heavy rewards. Poverty is an opportunity for wealth. It is a resource.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/8/2013 Posts: 2,517
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InnovateGuy wrote:Even as the digital government settles down to work, they should not lose sight of the challenges that face this country. There is so much do do especially with regards to eradicating poverty. In one incident which is likely to draw discussion, Micah Cheserem was moved to tears after coming "face to face" with the poverty in Kitui County. Learners there travel 14 Km to a school which is in shambles. The school has two teachers only.
Link Remind me does one former VP and presidential aspirant who had been in parliament to kedo almost 30 years not come from this neighborhood! Leadership by example how does Kaloozer explain this or who should be held to account for the state of affairs ? ... "😖😡KQ makes money for everyone except the shareholder 😏😏 " overheard in Wazua
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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Rankaz13 wrote:Over the course of my duties, I have had an opportunity to travel widely in all the counties that make the greater Ukambani (Machakos, Kitui and Makueni) or Eastern south as it is sometimes called. Some of what I have come across is indeed enough to make a grown man shed tears, I know I have and I won't deny it.
Sometime last year, I remember travelling around the areas of Makindu, Kibwezi, Makueni, Machakos, Kathonzweni and surrounding areas and honestly these guys need all the help they can get. I recall it had rained a few weeks prior and the one thing that struck me was they had actually tilled the land, wakapanda chakula and then the rains, as they are wont to, failed. And I remember asking myself, seriously, hii river tana that has flowed since eternity, what would it take to harness even a fraction of that water for irrigation purposes?
The one thing I noticed about them is that they are extremely hard working people and I dare say this: they do not need gov't handouts, convinced as some of us are about the same. Give these guys water for irrigation and watch them impress you with the level of hard work they're ready to put in to get the harvest. These guys are some of the hardest working Kenyans I ever met and honestly, our gov't has failed them big time!!
Over in Kitui, Mwingi, Muthale, Mutomo, etc areas, the story is replicated all over. But here I noticed one more thing: girls drop out of school very early. And so I sought to know why. Apparently, due to resource constraints, some of the families prioritize education of boys while girls remain at home to assist with household chores such as fetching water, etc. What this means is that a significant no. of girls begin their education late and it is not uncommon to find a 16yr old in class 7 or 8. Of course with all the challenges of puberty, the raging hormones and attendant teenage rebellion, not to forget constant ridicule by some of their younger colleagues, most drop out and get married shortly and thus we end up with a situation where subsequent generations end up being poorer than the preceding ones. All because of what? I have always maintained that what Ukambani needs, over and above all else, is water period. Whoever gives them water will be assured of my vote in perpetuity.
Flashback to the mid 2000s. At the time I worked in a part of coast that was in the midst of a major famine. Funny thing is, whenever I went to the local markets there actually was always food. Then it hit me: the famine was not because of lack of food, this was there in plenty. The problem actually was that the bulk of the population was unable to afford the food that was there. In other words, low household incomes was the problem.
In all these cases, and many others I'm sure, provision of relief food and other handouts isn't really a solution. What our people need is, first and foremost, water for irrigation na hizo vitu zingine zitajileta tu. Yaani something as basic as this can easily set an entire region so much far backward and ends up affecting even education as well as health care. After all, a child who spends most of his/her time looking for water doesn't have much time for school and at the same time, poor nutrition is never far behind, and this has implications on general well being as well as productivity.
There's no way this country will ever move forward as long as we take our agricultural productivity for granted. There surely must be a reason why the developed world, including Japan and Russia, hold farm/agricultural subsidies as sacrosanct. They recognize the value of agriculture in so far as their entire economies are concerned. After all, the agrarian revolution preceded the industrial revolution.
Over to Kenya, what do we have? Millions of our youth roam our streets in the ever elusive job search yet thousands upon thousands of acres of land in some of their rural areas lie fallow. Misplaced priorities? You be the judge.  excellent analysis But why do they keep planting and it doesnt rain? As someone said doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is a sign of insanity (with all due respect) Again as you have noted they have the solution within their hands..As with most problems of humans the solution doesnt lie without (sirkal isadie) but within (river tana, coops, culture change) Nobody is gonna get you out of poverty but yourself period I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,635
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Siringi wrote: Remind me does one former VP and presidential aspirant who had been in parliament to kedo almost 30 years not come from this neighborhood! Good point. Perhaps that is the reason Kenyan's did not see it fit to elect him to lead. Now the people chose, the ball is firmly in Uhurutos and his government's court. This culture of passing the blame has to end. Mara Kalonzo is to blame. Mara ni Raila, Moi, Kibaki, Obama, Wakoloni, mara the poor, the rich etc None of these are in power, given on a promise to bring change. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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@Rankaz, i like your analysis. I also agree with your analysis of the Wakamba: hardworking and goodnatured people. BUT i disagree with the notion that much food will allevoiate poverty. If this was true, agriculturally rich counties like Nyandarua would be full of rich people but this is not the case. Infact, abundance sometimes slows down innovation and makes people lazy
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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and true to the analysis here, the people of Makueni spent their day in normal duties not following kesi ya kethi while the people of wazua spent their day glued to tv/twita
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,504 Location: Uganda
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this is one of the most issue based thread to run in wazua. wazuans united and serious in analysing a problem and proposing workable solutions. lets have more like this. punda amecheka
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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poundfoolish wrote:Its a two way traffic..
Citizens organise themselves.. government picks up and does its bit.. either party waiting for the other is a black hole... @pound I agree with you in so many things until we took different directions at the last minute in the last polls, the garment will follow the pople, as long as the people who voted in a certain way support the benefactors without caring what they are doing to the wananchi....we are stuck.........NO MEANINGFUL SEVICE EXPECTED!!!....for these things we are proposing, the people from all walks of life must lead, the garment will have no option but to follow!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Lolest! wrote:@Rankaz, i like your analysis. I also agree with your analysis of the Wakamba: hardworking and goodnatured people. BUT i disagree with the notion that much food will allevoiate poverty. If this was true, agriculturally rich counties like Nyandarua would be full of rich people but this is not the case. Infact, abundance sometimes slows down innovation and makes people lazy Its the nature of man to look for something else to do once the issue of food is settled. That is why the Industrial revolution came after the Agrarian revolution. Am curious to know the current poverty rate of Nyandarua. In 2005/6 It was 46.3%, compared to Turkana which was 94.3%. Anyway, I think most leaders of Ukambani don't want to get their people out of poverty. That poor man will always vote in the rich guy who gives him 50/-when he visits. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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poundfoolish wrote:Its a two way traffic..
Citizens organise themselves.. government picks up and does its bit.. either party waiting for the other is a black hole... Ditto I'll also add this, 'My people die for lack of knowledge'. Why do we take our children to school? I think it a misconception to think that we send them to school so that they can get jobs in future!!! No No No. Unfortunately I think that why my grandpas sent my unties and uncles to school. I'll send you to school so that whatever it is you learn there, you'll come back and implement it here! I have a relative with acres of prime fertile land, earning peanuts with flimsy construction jobs, while the one son is a taxi-driver and the other an office messenger! If this is the story in so many families, can we surely blame gava or anybody else?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Mukiri wrote:poundfoolish wrote:Its a two way traffic..
Citizens organise themselves.. government picks up and does its bit.. either party waiting for the other is a black hole... Ditto I'll also add this, 'My people die for lack of knowledge'. Why do we take our children to school? I think it a misconception to think that we send them to school so that they can get jobs in future!!! No No No. Unfortunately I think that why my grandpas sent my unties and uncles to school. I'll send you to school so that whatever it is you learn there, you'll come back and implement it here! I have a relative with acres of prime fertile land, earning peanuts with flimsy construction jobs, while the one son is a taxi-driver and the other an office messenger! If this is the story in so many families, can we surely blame gava or anybody else? Direction will have to come from somewher....tychospeak!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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