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ICC CASES GONE SHREDDED
masukuma
#21 Posted : Sunday, April 28, 2013 10:49:38 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
"It is the first time I ever killed,I never imagined it would come to this. It was not a planned thing at all. I was angry. When you are angry, it's easy. It's Kenya versus Kikuyus. We are slaughtering them and we will keep slaughtering them. It will go on and on and on in all parts of the country. It will be war. Religious leaders have been preaching peace. Peace, peace! But there's no justice," -Gabriel Okelo



McReggae wrote:
Nobody was killed, robbed or raped reallly.....no case!!!!!

boss, hatusahau....you were busy cheering the conficts back when we were in SK.... that is until Naivasha went up in flames - what you need to understand is that we won't forget (regardless of your attempts to rewrite and distort history) - WE KNOW WHO IS RESPONSIBLE! Western powers tried to distort the reality in trying to paint an alternative reality where the real assailant became the victim but we have not forgotten - we are not stupid nor shall we forget.

Quote:

"It is the first time I ever killed,I never imagined it would come to this. It was not a planned thing at all. I was angry. When you are angry, it's easy. It's Kenya versus Kikuyus. We are slaughtering them and we will keep slaughtering them. It will go on and on and on in all parts of the country. It will be war. Religious leaders have been preaching peace. Peace, peace! But there's no justice," -Gabriel Okelo


Quote:
no raila, no peace





All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
alma
#22 Posted : Sunday, April 28, 2013 1:59:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
I'm glad masukuma that you are agreeing with me.

Obviously, this issue was never ever sorted. In fact no attempt has been made to sort this. For as long as everyone keeps yapping move on, then it is the bed bug that mutates in your mattress.

Something must be done. The commission for truth and justice all but disappeared. The court cases, what court cases? The ICC, mhhhh, the ICC?

The common story is the same. Everyone wants to pretend it didn't happen. Yet everyone is still festering with hate.

Something needs to be concluded. Whatever it is, it has to be concluded. If its the ICC cases, if it means you bring back baba from retirement, if it means you get the former pm on the docks, if it means that you arrest reli ngoaring, bottle circumcising criminals. Something needs to be done. The pain in comments on this board from seemingly educated people proves that.

But cheering squads and paid political hacks online are not and will never be the solution.

Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
murchr
#23 Posted : Sunday, April 28, 2013 4:23:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
alma wrote:
What irks me in this ICC issue is not the fact that the cases may or may not be rock solid cases but the behaviour of the people in the gallery.

I find it strange that gallery members are very quick to post that 1 judge has left a case, but forget to mention that the case is still on course as it seems 3 other judges are still in the case.

We have gallery members treating this issue as if it is a soccer match. To see who scores more goals than the other.

Others have taken the suspects to be their personal mascots. If the mascot suffers they suffer. Just like a football hooligan syndrome.

There is nothing to be proud about if this case doesn't go to its full conclusion. Which includes total vindication of the suspects.

But having an online cheering squad is not something to be proud about unless these people are your paymasters or your brothers or partners in crime.

For as long as I don't see people at the law courts of Nairobi cheering for or against a suspect in the court room, I will think the above.

Even if you support the honourable suspects, there is a need to be conscious of the fact that a lot of people lost their lives in that nonsense. You should empathise and temper your support to consider the person who lost their husband, child and other family members in this issue.

The genuine supporter is one who will agree that even if this case says that these people are innocent, there needs to be someone answerable to what happened to innocent Kenyans.

Some say that some other 2 people were involved. But somehow refuse to explain why these other two don't face the law.

The rallying call in Kenya now is MOVE ON.

Unfortunately, only banana republics refuse to ensure justice to their members. Only the Kingdom of Zamunda moves on.

That is my view.

But I don't expect much.

This is the country that has trained social media youth wingers, elect MP's who's first job is to increase their own salaries, then cheers as possible witnesses start disappearing one after another.


The problem with you is that you get so damn emotional when things don't go the way you wanted.....what happened to logic? The leaving of that one judge says ALOT period. Its not a matter of 3 or 2 remaining, why dont you ask yourself why this thought to be honorable man is finding this whole process shammed esp when this court is supposed to be seen as an example of a "court" and the process of law.

No one is denying that there are guilty individuals walking freely, infact even those who called for mass action, sent alarming false messages on sms or email are as guilty as those who killed.

"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
MatataMingi
#24 Posted : Sunday, April 28, 2013 5:32:18 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/17/2009
Posts: 399
Location: Where everyone knows you
The ICC did NOT investigate. Period

MO got his evidence from KNHR .

Kia, Hassan & co. coached the " witnesses "

Will all this stand in court. I really doubt.

Having said this, it does not mean PEV did not happen.
Some people are responsible - BUT maybe they are charging the wrong guys.

I still think the fault lies with MO for NOT doing his job

SAD, really SAD
tycho
#25 Posted : Sunday, April 28, 2013 8:01:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
MatataMingi wrote:
The ICC did NOT investigate. Period

MO got his evidence from KNHR .

Kia, Hassan & co. coached the " witnesses "

Will all this stand in court. I really doubt.

Having said this, it does not mean PEV did not happen.
Some people are responsible - BUT maybe they are charging the wrong guys.

I still think the fault lies with MO for NOT doing his job

SAD, really SAD


I believe this kind of reasoning is wrong, and irresponsible. This is because the ICC was involved after Kenya failed, through her institutions, to address crimes committed within her borders, and her leaders appealed for help from the ICC.

Worse still was the fact that the 'nusu mkate' deal had brought contention to rest. That is, the grand coalition was the convinient solution that killed the ICC process before it began.

Ocampo was only left to bark and threaten but not to bite.

The onus of the matter is on the work-a-day citizen, who unfortunately, is waiting for a solution from without. The citizen has been alienated from his interests and now fights for the politicians.




guru267
#26 Posted : Sunday, April 28, 2013 8:13:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
MaichBlack wrote:
murchr wrote:
McReggae wrote:
Nobody was killed, robbed or raped reallly.....no case!!!!!


Its not a question of if it happened but are the people before the court responsible? Did the prosecutor present that?

McReggae has been a very respected member of this forum but he is slowly loosing that respect with his pedestrian arguments. I used to love reading his posts because he is evidently an intelligent individual. Nowadays I read some of his posts and I can't help but suspect that his account has been hacked because the reasoning is way below his reasoning [or any wazuan for that matter!]

Take the post quoted here for example. What kind of reasoning is this? Seriously!!! Simple example: Two men are robbed and murdered and because "someone" has to be answerable the police arrest me and when I plead my innocence they ask me "Are you trying to tell us the two men were not robbed and murdered?". Who reasons like that? [Apart from McReggae?]

My brother McDoba, please change! Can the real McDoba please stand up! Granted. You are not the only one who has replaced their intellectual garb with one that is way beneath you due to the political atmosphere that had engulfed the country in the recent past. That was unfortunate but it was my hope that after the electioneering period, the great minds [which should never have 'left' in the first place] would be back! I'm getting disappointed!

Remember, your brain is a terrible thing to waste!!!


@Maichblack don't be too quick to judge.. Maybe @McReggae suffered a nervous breakdown due to overwhelming stress of loss and despair! Sad

We pray for his quick recovery!
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
harrydre
#27 Posted : Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:15:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
God never sleeps someday those responsible (directly or indirectly) will pay somehow.
i.am.back!!!!
Annti_Christy
#28 Posted : Monday, April 29, 2013 8:14:27 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/27/2012
Posts: 320
tycho wrote:
MatataMingi wrote:
The ICC did NOT investigate. Period

MO got his evidence from KNHR .

Kia, Hassan & co. coached the " witnesses "

Will all this stand in court. I really doubt.

Having said this, it does not mean PEV did not happen.
Some people are responsible - BUT maybe they are charging the wrong guys.

I still think the fault lies with MO for NOT doing his job

SAD, really SAD


I believe this kind of reasoning is wrong, and irresponsible. This is because the ICC was involved after Kenya failed, through her institutions, to address crimes committed within her borders, and her leaders appealed for help from the ICC.

Worse still was the fact that the 'nusu mkate' deal had brought contention to rest. That is, the grand coalition was the convinient solution that killed the ICC process before it began.

Ocampo was only left to bark and threaten but not to bite.

The onus of the matter is on the work-a-day citizen, who unfortunately, is waiting for a solution from without. The citizen has been alienated from his interests and now fights for the politicians.






i agree. i think investigations were done alright. Waki did investigate and recommended prosecutions. i think there is a difference between witnesses not cooperating leading to collapse of cases and shoddy investigation leading to collapse of cases. We kenyans are more used to shoddy investigating from our police leading to collapse of even the simplest cases and that is what we are familiar with.
Light Bearer
kiterunner
#29 Posted : Monday, April 29, 2013 8:22:48 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/9/2011
Posts: 730
Location: Nairobi
McReggae wrote:
Nobody was killed, robbed or raped reallly.....no case!!!!!



ditto, its all fiction, like a movie
our goals are best achieved indirectly
McReggae
#30 Posted : Monday, April 29, 2013 8:44:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Hahahha, now I am reasoning bel;ow my brain capacity.......for one who can't understand what 'sarcasm' means....mmmhhh!!!!.....I won't shut up just coz wazua is full of many
of the suspect's sympathisers!!!

A.C said:

Quote:
i agree. i think investigations were done alright. Waki did investigate and recommended prosecutions. i think there is a difference between witnesses not cooperating leading to collapse of cases and shoddy investigation leading to collapse of cases.
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
masukuma
#31 Posted : Monday, April 29, 2013 8:46:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
kiterunner wrote:
McReggae wrote:
Nobody was killed, robbed or raped reallly.....no case!!!!!



ditto, its all fiction, like a movie

I am disgusted by people who view the ICC not as a matter of justice for victims (some of which are IDPs) as political arsenal. you think we can't see that? Who remembers akina millie othiambo and akina Hassan and Kiai showing up with the images of the victims of PEV after uhuruto came from the ICC ile ya round 1? STOP USING THE ICC AS A POLITICAL WEAPON... IT HAS NOT WORKED NOR WILL IT EVER WORK. this is because we already know who is to blame for the ndlama and findio we witnessed in 2007-2008
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
masukuma
#32 Posted : Monday, April 29, 2013 9:00:13 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
Annti_Christy wrote:
tycho wrote:
MatataMingi wrote:
The ICC did NOT investigate. Period

MO got his evidence from KNHR .

Kia, Hassan & co. coached the " witnesses "

Will all this stand in court. I really doubt.

Having said this, it does not mean PEV did not happen.
Some people are responsible - BUT maybe they are charging the wrong guys.

I still think the fault lies with MO for NOT doing his job

SAD, really SAD


I believe this kind of reasoning is wrong, and irresponsible. This is because the ICC was involved after Kenya failed, through her institutions, to address crimes committed within her borders, and her leaders appealed for help from the ICC.

Worse still was the fact that the 'nusu mkate' deal had brought contention to rest. That is, the grand coalition was the convinient solution that killed the ICC process before it began.

Ocampo was only left to bark and threaten but not to bite.

The onus of the matter is on the work-a-day citizen, who unfortunately, is waiting for a solution from without. The citizen has been alienated from his interests and now fights for the politicians.






i agree. i think investigations were done alright. Waki did investigate and recommended prosecutions. i think there is a difference between witnesses not cooperating leading to collapse of cases and shoddy investigation leading to collapse of cases. We kenyans are more used to shoddy investigating from our police leading to collapse of even the simplest cases and that is what we are familiar with.

Waki's tribunal did not investigate - it wrote a report based on people who came before it and made claims - these facts were never verified since it could not (its was not an investigative body) - the results of its 'findings' were given to GOK and ICC both of which did not investigate further. Ocampo just picked the Waki and KNHRC reports and did 'picky picky ponkey' WITHOUT VERIFYING.... Anyone who read the charge sheets could see what I am talking about - it was word for word the law... "created a common plan" please....
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
McReggae
#33 Posted : Monday, April 29, 2013 9:05:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
kiterunner wrote:
McReggae wrote:
Nobody was killed, robbed or raped reallly.....no case!!!!!



ditto, its all fiction, like a movie

I am disgusted by people who view the ICC not as a matter of justice for victims (some of which are IDPs) as political arsenal. you think we can't see that? Who remembers akina millie othiambo and akina Hassan and Kiai showing up with the images of the victims of PEV after uhuruto came from the ICC ile ya round 1? STOP USING THE ICC AS A POLITICAL WEAPON... IT HAS NOT WORKED NOR WILL IT EVER WORK. this is because we already know who is to blame for the ndlama and findio we witnessed in 2007-2008


Some people just used......the suspects unity is ICC based!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Annti_Christy
#34 Posted : Monday, April 29, 2013 9:14:38 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/27/2012
Posts: 320
masukuma wrote:
Annti_Christy wrote:
tycho wrote:
MatataMingi wrote:
The ICC did NOT investigate. Period

MO got his evidence from KNHR .

Kia, Hassan & co. coached the " witnesses "

Will all this stand in court. I really doubt.

Having said this, it does not mean PEV did not happen.
Some people are responsible - BUT maybe they are charging the wrong guys.

I still think the fault lies with MO for NOT doing his job

SAD, really SAD


I believe this kind of reasoning is wrong, and irresponsible. This is because the ICC was involved after Kenya failed, through her institutions, to address crimes committed within her borders, and her leaders appealed for help from the ICC.

Worse still was the fact that the 'nusu mkate' deal had brought contention to rest. That is, the grand coalition was the convinient solution that killed the ICC process before it began.

Ocampo was only left to bark and threaten but not to bite.

The onus of the matter is on the work-a-day citizen, who unfortunately, is waiting for a solution from without. The citizen has been alienated from his interests and now fights for the politicians.






i agree. i think investigations were done alright. Waki did investigate and recommended prosecutions. i think there is a difference between witnesses not cooperating leading to collapse of cases and shoddy investigation leading to collapse of cases. We kenyans are more used to shoddy investigating from our police leading to collapse of even the simplest cases and that is what we are familiar with.

Waki's tribunal did not investigate - it wrote a report based on people who came before it and made claims - these facts were never verified since it could not (its was not an investigative body) - the results of its 'findings' were given to GOK and ICC both of which did not investigate further. Ocampo just picked the Waki and KNHRC reports and did 'picky picky ponkey' WITHOUT VERIFYING.... Anyone who read the charge sheets could see what I am talking about - it was word for word the law... "created a common plan" please....


but we could argue on the where the verification of these facts could take place. you would say at the police station, another would say at court.
Light Bearer
washiku
#35 Posted : Monday, April 29, 2013 12:44:59 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
By the way will we ever come to know all the names that were in that Waki envelope?
masukuma
#36 Posted : Monday, April 29, 2013 12:50:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
McReggae wrote:
masukuma wrote:
kiterunner wrote:
McReggae wrote:
Nobody was killed, robbed or raped reallly.....no case!!!!!



ditto, its all fiction, like a movie

I am disgusted by people who view the ICC not as a matter of justice for victims (some of which are IDPs) as political arsenal. you think we can't see that? Who remembers akina millie othiambo and akina Hassan and Kiai showing up with the images of the victims of PEV after uhuruto came from the ICC ile ya round 1? STOP USING THE ICC AS A POLITICAL WEAPON... IT HAS NOT WORKED NOR WILL IT EVER WORK. this is because we already know who is to blame for the ndlama and findio we witnessed in 2007-2008


Some people just used......the suspects unity is ICC based!!!

the unity is ICC based due to external pressures. Like skilled judokas they managed to use the external pressures for their own benefit - the more people shouted and aggressed the more the union grew.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
masukuma
#37 Posted : Monday, April 29, 2013 12:57:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
Annti_Christy wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Annti_Christy wrote:
tycho wrote:
MatataMingi wrote:
The ICC did NOT investigate. Period

MO got his evidence from KNHR .

Kia, Hassan & co. coached the " witnesses "

Will all this stand in court. I really doubt.

Having said this, it does not mean PEV did not happen.
Some people are responsible - BUT maybe they are charging the wrong guys.

I still think the fault lies with MO for NOT doing his job

SAD, really SAD


I believe this kind of reasoning is wrong, and irresponsible. This is because the ICC was involved after Kenya failed, through her institutions, to address crimes committed within her borders, and her leaders appealed for help from the ICC.

Worse still was the fact that the 'nusu mkate' deal had brought contention to rest. That is, the grand coalition was the convinient solution that killed the ICC process before it began.

Ocampo was only left to bark and threaten but not to bite.

The onus of the matter is on the work-a-day citizen, who unfortunately, is waiting for a solution from without. The citizen has been alienated from his interests and now fights for the politicians.






i agree. i think investigations were done alright. Waki did investigate and recommended prosecutions. i think there is a difference between witnesses not cooperating leading to collapse of cases and shoddy investigation leading to collapse of cases. We kenyans are more used to shoddy investigating from our police leading to collapse of even the simplest cases and that is what we are familiar with.

Waki's tribunal did not investigate - it wrote a report based on people who came before it and made claims - these facts were never verified since it could not (its was not an investigative body) - the results of its 'findings' were given to GOK and ICC both of which did not investigate further. Ocampo just picked the Waki and KNHRC reports and did 'picky picky ponkey' WITHOUT VERIFYING.... Anyone who read the charge sheets could see what I am talking about - it was word for word the law... "created a common plan" please....


but we could argue on the where the verification of these facts could take place. you would say at the police station, another would say at court.

the prosecuting authority needs to cover itself... you cannot take people to court based only on what someone came to the police station and 'andikishad statement'... you need to go out of your way and verify the same statement - because the burden of proof is yours in court it is not the accussed..if not you are looking at a scenario where you end up with Egg on your face because you together with the judges find out the facts in the court!.... Ocampo did very jua kali work in that he took the OB to court and tengenezad a charge sheet based on it.... but what were we expecting? the guy was a TV prosecutor? He loves the spot light.... do you remember the statement that he was going to use kenya as an example? hmmm? the guy is a star... ona hii clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUWEhv5mdFU
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Tokyo
#38 Posted : Monday, April 29, 2013 2:47:56 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/9/2006
Posts: 1,502
" Retaliatory violence planned in November in statehouse without president knowledge " ICC
work to prosper
digitek1
#39 Posted : Monday, April 29, 2013 3:38:22 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/3/2010
Posts: 1,797
Location: Kenya
Tokyo wrote:
" Retaliatory violence planned in November in statehouse without president knowledge " ICC

how now Liar Liar
I may be wrong..but then I could be right
masukuma
#40 Posted : Monday, April 29, 2013 6:11:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
digitek1 wrote:
Tokyo wrote:
" Retaliatory violence planned in November in statehouse without president knowledge " ICC

how now Liar Liar

retaliation - i.e. defined as 'To return like for like, especially evil for evil.'
so.... attacks to revenge attacks on kyuks were planned 1 month before the attacks they were supposed to revenge took place? Wow! they must have been gazing into one or both of Mutua's crystal balls.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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