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Jubilee Should Head to Court to Dispel This Legal Nonsense
Obi 1 Kanobi
#11 Posted : Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:59:28 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
nesta wrote:
When i brought up the issue of Valid/Vs Cast votes sometime last year, http://nipate.com/legal-...hat-is-50-1-t17648.html i was hoping that one of the teams would go to court to seek an advisory opinion. If that would have happened, the ruling made by the courts would be deemed to be unbiased. But of course, none went so we have to deal with that.

There's something else that i see so-called experts are not addressing: what exactly is a REJECTED vote?

(I will leave out the definition of cast votes so that CORDians don't politicize this.)

back to rejected votes:

So let's look at the constitution and what it says:
(4) A candidate shall be declared elected as President if the
candidate receives—
(a) more than half of all the votes cast in the election; and
(b) at least twenty-five per cent of the votes cast in each of more
than half of the counties.


So, the constitution does not state, but implies, that the person must receive more than half of ALL the PRESIDENTIAL votes cast. For example, if you receive votes for an MP, but not president (the constitution allows that but the election act doesn't,) then you can be the MP for Langa'ta, but those votes will not cause you to be president. Meaning? The MP votes are irrelevant when it comes to the president vote.

If i throw a piece of paper in the ballot box, will that be a spoilt/rejected/cast vote? Certainly Not!
What if i throw an ODM nomination ballot paper in the box, will that be a spoilt/rejected/cast vote? Certainly Not!
What if, i sneak in with a 2010 referendum paper and throw it inside the ballot box? Never!

So, why does a vote for the County rep, cast in the presidential ballot box count as a rejected vote?

It doesn't make sense - and i'll tell you why ....

If any polling station has a voter turnout that's more than the registered voters, that center will have all the votes cancelled.

If a center has 100 voters registered, and all of them turn up, that's 100 vote in the president's ballot

Wht if 1 person throws the county rep's ballot paper into the presidential ballot, then after realizing his mistake, casts the presidential ballot paper into the ballot box?

This brings the total valid votes to 100, and the rejected vote to 1 - bringing the total to 101 votes. Voter turnout - 101%.

As you can see, by counting the county rep's vote as a "vote" is stupid.

There is nothing like a spoilt vote: it's either a vote (valid,) a spoiled ballot paper, or an unused ballot paper, or a rejected vote. But if the vote is rejected, how can it be a vote?

CONCLUSION

1. Jubilee should go to court and demand a constitutional interpretation of the meaning VOTE and how it differs from a BALLOT PAPER or a FOREIGN OBJECT inside a ballot box. Scenario, if i cast an unmarked ballot paper inside a ballot box, is that a vote? For it to be a vote, it MUST be properly marked AND cast into the right box. Leaving any of these out makes you vote irrelevant in decision making

2. Demand that the IEBC carries out an audit of ALL the "rejected votes" to see how many of them are foreign objects (stray votes) that Should not be in the presidential tally.

In making a determination on this, according to the constitution:

In exercising judicial authority, the courts and tribunals shall be guided by the following principles—
a. justice shall be administered without undue regard to procedural technicalities; and
b. the purpose and principles of this Constitution shall be protected and promoted.

Spread The Word, Spread The Peace


How will you convince the courts that there are foreign objects in a specific presidential ballot box if your agent did not object and a record of the same made. Will you tell the judges that you are suspecting?
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
blueman
#12 Posted : Wednesday, March 06, 2013 12:01:45 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/12/2011
Posts: 237
limanika wrote:
There will be a runoff on april 10 whichever way you look at it. Jubilee unlikely to go to court as loosing the case would put them in jeopardy. But they can pay someone to do it

They will only lose such a case if the judges are biased. Remember, the court will not only be interpreting the meanings of words in the letter of the constitution, but also its spirit,
We make or break our own tomorrows today!
Lucid_Iam
#13 Posted : Wednesday, March 06, 2013 12:06:06 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/30/2011
Posts: 483
From the same katiba, we should not even have counted those votes; I am not a lawyer, so let lawyers tell us what it means.

‎77. (1) At the counting of votes at an election, any ballot paper—
(a) which does not bear the security features determined by the Commission;
(b) on which votes are marked, or appears to be marked against the names of, more than one candidate;
(c) on which anything is written or so marked as to be uncertain for whom the vote has been cast;
(d) which bears a serial number different from the serial number of the respective polling station and which cannot be verified from the counterfoil of ballot papers used at that polling station; or
(e) is unmarked, shall, subject to subregulation (2), be void and shall not be counted.

(2) A ballot paper on which a vote is marked—
(a) elsewhere than in the proper place;
(b) by more than one mark; or
(c) which bears marks or writing which may identify the voter, shall not by that reason only be void if an intention that the vote shall be for one or other of the candidates, as the case may be, clearly appears, and the manner in which the paper is marked does not itself identify the voter and it is not shown that the voter can be identified thereby.
ZZE123
#14 Posted : Wednesday, March 06, 2013 12:06:11 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/21/2008
Posts: 2,490
KulaRaha wrote:
I heard this new one called "foreign object" from a TNA spin doctor just this morning.

Should be interesting.

Hoping it’s not the bag of chips you talked about yesterday.Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
The man who marries a beautiful woman, and the farmer who grows corn by the roadside have the same problem
blueman
#15 Posted : Wednesday, March 06, 2013 12:06:23 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/12/2011
Posts: 237
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
nesta wrote:
When i brought up the issue of Valid/Vs Cast votes sometime last year, http://nipate.com/legal-...hat-is-50-1-t17648.html i was hoping that one of the teams would go to court to seek an advisory opinion. If that would have happened, the ruling made by the courts would be deemed to be unbiased. But of course, none went so we have to deal with that.

There's something else that i see so-called experts are not addressing: what exactly is a REJECTED vote?

(I will leave out the definition of cast votes so that CORDians don't politicize this.)

back to rejected votes:

So let's look at the constitution and what it says:
(4) A candidate shall be declared elected as President if the
candidate receives—
(a) more than half of all the votes cast in the election; and
(b) at least twenty-five per cent of the votes cast in each of more
than half of the counties.


So, the constitution does not state, but implies, that the person must receive more than half of ALL the PRESIDENTIAL votes cast. For example, if you receive votes for an MP, but not president (the constitution allows that but the election act doesn't,) then you can be the MP for Langa'ta, but those votes will not cause you to be president. Meaning? The MP votes are irrelevant when it comes to the president vote.

If i throw a piece of paper in the ballot box, will that be a spoilt/rejected/cast vote? Certainly Not!
What if i throw an ODM nomination ballot paper in the box, will that be a spoilt/rejected/cast vote? Certainly Not!
What if, i sneak in with a 2010 referendum paper and throw it inside the ballot box? Never!

So, why does a vote for the County rep, cast in the presidential ballot box count as a rejected vote?

It doesn't make sense - and i'll tell you why ....

If any polling station has a voter turnout that's more than the registered voters, that center will have all the votes cancelled.

If a center has 100 voters registered, and all of them turn up, that's 100 vote in the president's ballot

Wht if 1 person throws the county rep's ballot paper into the presidential ballot, then after realizing his mistake, casts the presidential ballot paper into the ballot box?

This brings the total valid votes to 100, and the rejected vote to 1 - bringing the total to 101 votes. Voter turnout - 101%.

As you can see, by counting the county rep's vote as a "vote" is stupid.

There is nothing like a spoilt vote: it's either a vote (valid,) a spoiled ballot paper, or an unused ballot paper, or a rejected vote. But if the vote is rejected, how can it be a vote?

CONCLUSION

1. Jubilee should go to court and demand a constitutional interpretation of the meaning VOTE and how it differs from a BALLOT PAPER or a FOREIGN OBJECT inside a ballot box. Scenario, if i cast an unmarked ballot paper inside a ballot box, is that a vote? For it to be a vote, it MUST be properly marked AND cast into the right box. Leaving any of these out makes you vote irrelevant in decision making

2. Demand that the IEBC carries out an audit of ALL the "rejected votes" to see how many of them are foreign objects (stray votes) that Should not be in the presidential tally.

In making a determination on this, according to the constitution:

In exercising judicial authority, the courts and tribunals shall be guided by the following principles—
a. justice shall be administered without undue regard to procedural technicalities; and
b. the purpose and principles of this Constitution shall be protected and promoted.

Spread The Word, Spread The Peace


How will you convince the courts that there are foreign objects in a specific presidential ballot box if your agent did not object and a record of the same made. Will you tell the judges that you are suspecting?

Reference to "foreign object" is made for argument purposes only. It is meant to drive the point home that not everything in a ballot box constitutes a vote. This will then force the judges to make a clear definition of the word "vote" which hopefully should clear the matter. If not, the complainants can still appeal to the court to clarify the spirit of the law.
We make or break our own tomorrows today!
blueman
#16 Posted : Wednesday, March 06, 2013 12:12:38 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/12/2011
Posts: 237
Lucid_Iam wrote:
From the same katiba, we should not even have counted those votes; I am not a lawyer, so let lawyers tell us what it means.

‎77. (1) At the counting of votes at an election, any ballot paper—
(a) which does not bear the security features determined by the Commission;
(b) on which votes are marked, or appears to be marked against the names of, more than one candidate;
(c) on which anything is written or so marked as to be uncertain for whom the vote has been cast;
(d) which bears a serial number different from the serial number of the respective polling station and which cannot be verified from the counterfoil of ballot papers used at that polling station; or
(e) is unmarked, shall, subject to subregulation (2), be void and shall not be counted.

(2) A ballot paper on which a vote is marked—
(a) elsewhere than in the proper place;
(b) by more than one mark; or
(c) which bears marks or writing which may identify the voter, shall not by that reason only be void if an intention that the vote shall be for one or other of the candidates, as the case may be, clearly appears, and the manner in which the paper is marked does not itself identify the voter and it is not shown that the voter can be identified thereby.

Good piece of research, this should be passed to those concerned in Jubilee.
But what does this mean? "which bears marks or writing which may identify the voter, shall not by that reason only be void if an intention that the vote shall be for one or other of the candidates, as the case may be, clearly appears, and the manner in which the paper is marked does not itself identify the voter and it is not shown that the voter can be identified thereby"
We make or break our own tomorrows today!
KulaRaha
#17 Posted : Wednesday, March 06, 2013 12:20:12 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,514
ZZE123 wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:
I heard this new one called "foreign object" from a TNA spin doctor just this morning.

Should be interesting.

Hoping it’s not the bag of chips you talked about yesterday.Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

I saw this line coming...Jubilee cannot win without exclusion of those votes/foreign object/chips

They are waiting for CORD to go to court first.
Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
Obi 1 Kanobi
#18 Posted : Wednesday, March 06, 2013 12:22:48 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
@Blueman.

The spirit of the law is that everyone who participates in the voting intended to participate in the selection of a certain candidate. Makes it even more difficult to argue for valid vs cast.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
blueman
#19 Posted : Wednesday, March 06, 2013 12:27:44 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/12/2011
Posts: 237
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
@Blueman.

The spirit of the law is that everyone who participates in the voting intended to participate in the selection of a certain candidate. Makes it even more difficult to argue for valid vs cast.

@Obi 1 Kanobi, well the spirit of the law would not stop at intent, but rather it goes on that this intent must be expressed according to the law.
We make or break our own tomorrows today!
McReggae
#20 Posted : Wednesday, March 06, 2013 12:35:51 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Unless the constituion is ammended this argument aint going nowhere......In Ghana it is clear 'Valid Votes Cast' in our case it also very clear 'All Votes Cast"
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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