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Moving forward
maka
#11 Posted : Monday, February 11, 2013 3:19:29 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
Wazuans, my considered opinion is this:

With 20 days to go to the elections, and with the ICC suspects still running, and with the unlikelyhood of the Supreme court barring them from running, I think it's time we thought of the best way forward. Especially, given the following reasons.

1. The Hague process has lost legitimacy. We cannot have a presidency that is at variance with international institutions.

2. We cannot subject the Hague process to the conditional of political victory, or loss.

3. Whichever side wins the elections, we will suffer great pains if we don't restructure our Economic or better put, 'world' system.

I propose that we think together on how we can best live in our country, despite any outcome of the coming elections.

I pray that we may focus on:

1. Maintaining peace and flourish in our country.

2. Maintain and promote friendly relations with the nations of the world, and international institutions.

3. Healing of historical injustices and afflictions we haven't been able to face.

I ask that all of you may come with a positive attitude and avoid mentioning political candidates as solutions.

Otherwise, you are most welcome.

... @Tycho you should be running for president...this is the kind of thinking we need,elections come and go we should be looking at positioning ourselves as an economic powerhouse not only in this region but in Africa as a whole while we are engrossed in and drowning in the murky waters of tribalism and useless politics other countries are focussed on growth and helping their citizens lead better lives...we seriously need to up our game.
possunt quia posse videntur
tycho
#12 Posted : Monday, February 11, 2013 3:23:41 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
When dealing with historical injustices, how far back, should we go? And why?


I think we should consider the present. This is because if our present is unsettled, then the past cannot be handled.

We are facing a case of many historical injustices even at the moment.

We are in a crisis. We do not have a structure for handling the bitter historical forces at war, in our country.

The historical forces that are causing the Arab spring, are knocking on our country's doors. So far, none of the countries of the Arab Spring are faring well. Why is this the case?

But maybe I should first show how there are such forces that are knocking on our doors.

And more so, the forces are very intense.

First, the forces of history, are now riding on ICT and globalization. And now the citizen is pushing more and more for personal autonomy and control. But no one seems to know how to handle this force.

There's much confusion in our brothers. And now cases of 'revolutionary' fighting 'revolutionary' are all too frequent.

These forces are very much with us. We are leaders in adopting ICT, plus we have a devolved government that will definitely act on the individual citizen in terms of taxes and other obligations.

Then there are counterforces at play in our country that paradoxically, are weakening our ability to harness the forces acting on us.

There are now questions arising on how we should participate in international affairs. Even when such relations are not in the hands of government. The internet has linked individuals and organizations in uncontrollable ways.

Some of us are saying we should go East. But is this policy practicable?

Yet the citizen is willing to embrace principles that are contrary to historical forces, for the sake of 'self- defense'.

I fear that these forces are too strong for our structure as a nation state.

We need to do something.
tycho
#13 Posted : Monday, February 11, 2013 3:34:04 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@Kaka M, I believe the above post is the beginning of an answer to your question.

Meanwhile, I agree with your thoughts. But I have to ask, who is supposed to keep people busy? Why are people not busy!

Hahaha @maka! This is just Man God playing his humble role.
Amores
#14 Posted : Monday, February 11, 2013 4:06:50 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/25/2011
Posts: 2,103
Location: Nrb
In my humble submission ( not sure that it fits in this thread) the campaign trail -with just weeks to go to elections- is not the time to address "historical injustices"

Let us pray that once the rhetoric is over,we will have a government which remembers the governed.Everything else is just hype for votes

DNA ni TNA


I am happy
ChessMaster
#15 Posted : Monday, February 11, 2013 4:29:39 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
@Amores - The longer we stay without addressing 'historical injustices' the bigger the problem gets.

@tycho - I don't believe we need to go back.We're here in the present. All that has been done can't be undone.Forgiveness and cooperation is what we should strive to achieve. If any wrong can be corrected action should be taken towards it without prejudice so that justice can prevail moving forwards.

I don't see an east or west movement anymore.The world is getting too connected.What is standing firm in this world is ideas.Ideas and concepts that cut across nations,cultures and politics. As you've clearly stated,ICT is driving this.Wazua is living proof that things have changed and its just the beginning.

Point number two on what we should focus on,relations with other nations. This is very important. We are very busy complaining that Kenya is being pressured by outside forces not realizing how important a role we play for Africa. We are like a big brother for other African nations. If something negative was to happen our brothers in the East African region will suffer together with us. That is also being unfair to them. Another point that has been brought up is the precedent we'll set for other African nations by our actions. We should strive to be better not only for ourselves but other nations coming up. How will we be able to help other nations to rise when we have stained ourselves with injustices.

I believe this is the right path. We need to focus on solutions and moving forward rather than holding ourselves back with things we can't change.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
tycho
#16 Posted : Monday, February 11, 2013 7:40:41 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
To move forward, I believe we need to do the following:

1. We need to accept loss in the elections and accept to work and live with each other in mutual relations.

2. We need to have diplomatic ideas that can help us work with the international community to have an alternative to the Hague process.

3. We need to bridge the policy gap between what we need and what government can really do.

Amores
#17 Posted : Monday, February 11, 2013 8:03:18 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/25/2011
Posts: 2,103
Location: Nrb
@ chessmaster,i am not saying that we should not address them,all i am saying is that this is not the time to bring them up. It is looking to score some cheap points ,or votes in this case,although i am not sure how many he got because the rhetoric and polarization.

@ Tycho, i will move on - personally myself. and i hope everyone else will. Hata kama mimi ni support wa Kamwana fulltime, my life will go on,unchanged if he wins or loses.
I am happy
Kaka M
#18 Posted : Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:57:15 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/18/2011
Posts: 459
tycho wrote:
@Kaka M, I believe the above post is the beginning of an answer to your question.

Meanwhile, I agree with your thoughts. But I have to ask, who is supposed to keep people busy? Why are people not busy!

Hahaha @maka! This is just Man God playing his humble role.



Thank you for the response, but I tend read anxiety in your posts, the current situation calls for concern but not anxiety.
There is no reason to think that whichever way we vote we are going to suffer great pains, Why really?? (Why should a Ole Kiyiapi presidency for example bring us great pain?)
A factor that stands out in your first post is about the case at the Hague.
Without getting partisan may I point out two issues, The Jubilee presidential candidate
has heard the concerns of people about his case and he stated clearly that he would be attending the case etc etc( As to whether he will go or otherwise thats a different story.) At least he know one of his weak points and he is facing it head on.(Don't get me wrong I am not a Jubilee supporter.)
Secondly last week when the American envoy was talking about choices having consequences, one of the things he did was to distinguish between issues facing Kenya and Sudan. i.e Sanctions were imposed in Sudan because of atrocities being carried out in Darfur and not because of the case against Al Bashir.
With regard to historical injustices, if it were upto me a positive approach would address them by almost half. By getting the people who suffered this to be empowered economically(where applicable) they will then be too busy partying to remember about injustices and those that remember will pursue the cases differently.

As for your question who is going to get people busy, its the realization by the people that they, and not politicians have the solution to their challenges. So many people have in the last 10 years realized that and jumped into action. Wazua itself has so many success stories and so many other places and the politicians have given them a boost being coming up with policies that availed reasonably easy credit facilities getting them to grow much further. (One lady in the IDP camps started making Chapatis and selling for I think 10 shillings each which with the right attitude can turn one into a millionare with time.)
Finally, for those who ain't busy and keep complaining I think it has to do with, failure to see the light to a large extend.




ChessMaster
#19 Posted : Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:03:10 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
@Amores - I totally agree. We had time to deal with now it will be a hindrance to progress.

@tycho - That's a very big problem. People are not involved in government so they don't know what the government is capable of.Citizens need to be more aware of how the Kenyan government functions.More participation.

I like how Uhuru handled the ICC matter.He put the burden on the shoulders of Kenyans.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
tycho
#20 Posted : Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:37:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@Kaka, you have perceived my anxiety correctly. I am much more calm now.

Yes. Concern is the correct position. And my concern is that we need to find a moral justification that would stop the trials, and pursue an alternative path of justice.

The force needed must be from the Citizen. There's a great need for citizens of Kenya to organize themselves for this task.

You are also right about idleness being a result of lack of light.

Does this imply poor socialization, and education?

You asked a question about Kiyapi. Yes. I am still concerned because he too will be facing the challenge of a very changed world without the appropriate ideas. He seems to be unaware of what is ahead.
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