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Impact of 30% rental income tax on housing development in Kenya
nakujua
#16 Posted : Thursday, June 14, 2012 4:17:43 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
Digitali wrote:
Marty wrote:
kyt wrote:
lets wait wether the finance guy will touch it, fingers crossed


The easiest and the most practical answer to landlords is to increase rent.


Rental income has always been taxable under the income tax act however many people with rental income have not been declaring this income to KRA. on the other hand KRA has not been aggressively pursuing people with rental income probably because they lacked a mechanism of identifying and following the defaulters! The good news to KRA and bad news to defaulters is that technology has come to the aid of KRA i.e use of GIS(Geographic information system) in zeroing in on all the landlords.

The truth is that this will certainly have a negative impact on the real estate industry and bearing in mind most of the people are tenants, the real property investors will certainly have to look at alternative investments with higher returns if passing on of the tax liability to the tenants is not possible!


even if they zero in using GIS technology, how will they know if the units are occupied - well they could go ahead and use some form of infrared technology to detect body movement in the individual units.

is it practical ? I don't think so.
Ali Baba
#17 Posted : Thursday, June 14, 2012 4:19:29 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/29/2008
Posts: 573
Maichblack:then I apologize for the vitriol.Si ni sawa sasa??
nakujua
#18 Posted : Thursday, June 14, 2012 4:27:52 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
Ali Baba wrote:
MAICHBLACK: I think you are very ignorant of the Income Tax act. I said increasing rent to cover taxes increases taxable incomes.therefore the cycle continues.I would not agree to pay 30k rent and say rent is 10k to cheat the taxman.Schemes for cheating taxman,I would not be involved.If I pay 30k rent....let it remain 30k,what the landlord does with KRA is not for me to be involved.besides its illegal to help another taxpayer evade taxes.I think you are a tax evader.Mr Njiraini,push on....let us all share the tax burden.Flush them out from every where.ITS MENE MENE TEKEL for tax evaders!!


hasira ya nini, there are those who evade tax and those who comply.
Ali Baba
#19 Posted : Thursday, June 14, 2012 4:28:27 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/29/2008
Posts: 573
NAKUJUA: it will help a lot.It may not prove but it will reduce evasion.Plus they have officers in the field who will be walking around verifying such.Also,if you have built a house and its not occupied,it shows you have a source of income which maybe is not taxed and this will help reduce evasion even from other sources.Let's say a mitumba trader or say jua kali people,they evade taxes(most of them) and invest in plots and houses.If WE(taxpayers and KRA)find out that you have a house,then it will not help compliance but zero in on mitumba income.Sounding good??I like what I'm hearing from Githae.All Landlords must be brought to "Times Tower umbrella".Good.Very good.I love you Githae and Njiraini.God bless KRA.
Ali Baba
#20 Posted : Thursday, June 14, 2012 4:30:25 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/29/2008
Posts: 573
....I meant....it will help NOT ONLY COMPLIANCE,but zero in on other sources....
Ali Baba
#21 Posted : Thursday, June 14, 2012 4:32:32 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/29/2008
Posts: 573
NAKUJUA: hakuna hasira.Yes,some pay.Some don't.Some pay for some income and evade others....
Ali Baba
#22 Posted : Thursday, June 14, 2012 4:36:55 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/29/2008
Posts: 573
No one stops investing because of taxes.In this case housing development will continue without any hitch.Anyone who stops investing because of taxes is not an investor.And there is no venture which will be exempt from taxation.Show me one.
alma
#23 Posted : Thursday, June 14, 2012 4:46:25 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
Oh boy...We shout at wazua that MP's are evading taxes and when we are asked to pay our share we start screaming bloody murder.

It's time for Kenyans to get realistic with this property investing bubble. Coz it is a bubble.

Rental income is income..So why don't you want to pay up like an employee who pays income?

Ati increase rents? Do that and your house will be empty. I'm seeing a quite a few in South C where guys think they can charge what they wish and get away with it.

The days of making super normal profits with shady houses are over.

Next, they should implement taxation on land and property not developed.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
Ali Baba
#24 Posted : Thursday, June 14, 2012 4:59:29 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/29/2008
Posts: 573
ALMA:thank you very much.That is what I was trying to tell them.Pay up.We all hate taxes.Even me,I hate taxes but I pay.Pay up guys.Don't be like MPigs.We should know better.We all want Kenya to develop.Or you(evaders) want Kenya to be like Democratic Republic Of Congo????PAY,PAY,PAY....
Mkimwa
#25 Posted : Thursday, June 14, 2012 5:22:18 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/26/2008
Posts: 380
Say I take a loan to finance a development, I pay interest on the loan. Will the interest be deducted first from the rent, before levying the 30%?

What about other costs - e.g. security, garbage, gardener, repairs?

If the net rental income (after deducting all related expenses) is what is going to be taxed, that is ok.
alma
#26 Posted : Thursday, June 14, 2012 5:31:49 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
You are taxed on income not profits. Otherwise everyone will cook up a scheme to get a rental income of 50k go all the way to 5k after deducting the lavington watchies salary.

The impact on real estate is simple..It will bring real estate returns to reasonable and sustainable levels as they are all over the world.

As it is in Kenya, I can simply go steal some money from someone,build a house in mlolongo and declare myself a pauper. Then come to wazua to complain about the roads in Syokimau.

We have to be honest here. The real estate market in Kenya was burning up and was totally unrealistic and open to all the pirate money from the whole world.

Buy a house and eat the money you stole.

Now at least you will have to pay taxes on your stolen money....Not perfect, but better.

As for increasing rents, that's hogwash. If I pay rent of 30k it means I have disposable income of 30k.

Just because my landlord wants to pay his taxes does not mean that I will pay more rent.

Also consider the guys who have 10 houses at 30k. All of a sudden their incomes are at 300k. The clever ones will sell quickly. The fools will continue building rentals as interest rates are as crazy as they are.

As it stands, I would rather buy shares in mortgage banks than buy a rental.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
MaichBlack
#27 Posted : Thursday, June 14, 2012 5:38:47 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,833
alma wrote:
You are taxed on income not profits. Otherwise everyone will cook up a scheme to get a rental income of 50k go all the way to 5k after deducting the lavington watchies salary.

That would be preposterous!!!! Pay 30% on turn over? Which other industry is taxed at that level?
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
alma
#28 Posted : Thursday, June 14, 2012 5:43:12 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
MaichBlack wrote:
alma wrote:
You are taxed on income not profits. Otherwise everyone will cook up a scheme to get a rental income of 50k go all the way to 5k after deducting the lavington watchies salary.

That would be preposterous!!!! Pay 30% on turn over? Which other industry is taxed at that level?


MaichBlack maybe its not obvious to you that I'm not a taxation expert.....I'm just hoping and praying that its on the net income.

Which unfortunately now means that each and every expense you declare on your tax returns will have to be recorded.

So if you say that you paid Kanyotu frowa gadenas 3k. Kanyotu had better get his tax papers in order.

I'm loving this policy very much...It will catch more people in the tax bracket.

So relax Maich its just my wish..I doubt if its the case unless you run your rental business like your kashamba.....oooops most do.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
ralp_mutu
#29 Posted : Thursday, June 14, 2012 5:57:08 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 232
Location: Nairobi
alma wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
alma wrote:
You are taxed on income not profits. Otherwise everyone will cook up a scheme to get a rental income of 50k go all the way to 5k after deducting the lavington watchies salary.

That would be preposterous!!!! Pay 30% on turn over? Which other industry is taxed at that level?


MaichBlack maybe its not obvious to you that I'm not a taxation expert.....I'm just hoping and praying that its on the net income.

Which unfortunately now means that each and every expense you declare on your tax returns will have to be recorded.

So if you say that you paid Kanyotu frowa gadenas 3k. Kanyotu had better get his tax papers in order.

I'm loving this policy very much...It will catch more people in the tax bracket.

So relax Maich its just my wish..I doubt if its the case unless you run your rental business like your kashamba.....oooops most do.


Its on the Net income (The profit) Even those guy at KRA are realistic and also landlords
My folks told me that my very first word was 'billionaire'
kazee
#30 Posted : Thursday, June 14, 2012 6:02:02 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/18/2006
Posts: 131
The income tax act which you can download online is very very clear on this even to a layman by the way. Am no accountant but from what i read, rent income is not subject to VAT (16%), revenue tax(5% of gross revenue- it says that). Tax on rent is expected to fall under the same bands of employment tax and therefore anything above 30k will be taxed at about 30% of gross income.
This may definately have an impact on rents since as every supplier does e.g. eabl and BAT when taxes go up, new prices are posted in print media the next day. The rent may not go up by 30% since that would be horrendous but they will definately rise.
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