Wazua
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JUSTICE OR POLITICS?
Rank: Elder Joined: 11/14/2007 Posts: 4,152
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ICC did what they had to do and whether we celebrate or not they just don't care! What we should be asking ourselves is what will happen to the other criminals who incited Kenyans against each other.....the other lot who we've been ignoring since their crimes were "too small" for Ocampo.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/27/2011 Posts: 1,777
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A court is set up and it's jurisdiction is by all practical purposes in the third world countries-the first world want nothing to do with the kind of international justice the court is supposed to bring, if it's going to apply on their soil. Ironically the ICC main financiers are the first world countries that wants nothing to do with it's international justice interfering with their sovereignity.
It's a funny world.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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josiah33 wrote:A court is set up and it's jurisdiction is by all practical purposes in the third world countries-the first world want nothing to do with the kind of international justice the court is supposed to bring, if it's going to apply on their soil. Ironically the ICC main financiers are the first world countries that wants nothing to do with it's international justice interfering with their sovereignity.
It's a funny world. The ICC can charge anyone regardless of their country's stand on the Rome statute.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 8/24/2009 Posts: 5,909 Location: Nairobi
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josiah33 wrote:A court is set up and it's jurisdiction is by all practical purposes in the third world countries-the first world want nothing to do with the kind of international justice the court is supposed to bring, if it's going to apply on their soil. Ironically the ICC main financiers are the first world countries that wants nothing to do with it's international justice interfering with their sovereignity.
It's a funny world. The same "court" offered Kenya to set up a local tribunal (read maintain sovereignty) and now you turn to label it a Western machine...surely!!!
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Rank: Chief Joined: 8/24/2009 Posts: 5,909 Location: Nairobi
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TAZ wrote:ICC did what they had to do and whether we celebrate or not they just don't care! What we should be asking ourselves is what will happen to the other criminals who incited Kenyans against each other.....the other lot who we've been ignoring since their crimes were "too small" for Ocampo. Good question @Taz, ICC is dealing with the masterminds, organizers and financiers first!! The Kenya government was never interested in setting up a local tribunal, what has changed? is it for people to feel that justice has been "equated" so that you see the politicians you "hate" charged?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/27/2011 Posts: 1,777
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Lolest! wrote:josiah33 wrote:A court is set up and it's jurisdiction is by all practical purposes in the third world countries-the first world want nothing to do with the kind of international justice the court is supposed to bring, if it's going to apply on their soil. Ironically the ICC main financiers are the first world countries that wants nothing to do with it's international justice interfering with their sovereignity.
It's a funny world. The ICC can charge anyone regardless of their country's stand on the Rome statute. Ok, it's true but a country that's not a signatory has no obligation to assist in the ICC process unlike a signatory country that has an obligation not to undermine the court's process. So unless someone from a non-signatory country is reffered to ICC by the security council of the UN it would not be easy for ICC to charge them. If a country is not a member of the International Criminal Court (such as Libya and Sri Lanka), its citizens can be prosecuted by the ICC for crimes against humanity, war crimes, or genocide only if the UN Security Council refers it.
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Rank: User Joined: 5/3/2011 Posts: 559
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Oooh! Look initially I thought some people here are sycophant, ti turn out most of them are dillusional instead.
@Bigbossman, absolutely, the ruling will influence politics but reading beyond that is subjective.
@Madammary, It looks like someone you didn't want to be on the four actually made into the four, too bad but the fact of the matter is no matter where you stand politically or ethnicically, this is good for the country because going forward politicans will think twice before openning their mouth.
@Josiah33, your point of argument is flawed in so many ways, first you fail to recognize that Western Countries who actually finance the ICC have strong and functioning justice systems, something we don't have, if we had it we wouldn't need ICC, arguing on USA not being part of ICC is a flawed approach!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/27/2011 Posts: 1,777
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Drunkard wrote:Oooh! Look initially I thought some people here are sycophant, ti turn out most of them are dillusional instead.
@Josiah33, your point of argument is flawed in so many ways, first you fail to recognize that Western Countries who actually finance the ICC have strong and functioning justice systems, something we don't have, if we had it we wouldn't need ICC, arguing on USA not being part of ICC is a flawed approach! It's true that ICC was meant to compliment the judicial system of NATIONS and it usually takes charge if they find that the country's judicial system cannot be trusted to try the perpetrators of crimes against humanity. Also the US has a strong and functioning judicial system but i doubt they would ever find BUSH guilty of war crimes in the US, and the UN security council and ICC might just need alot of persuading to ever try BUSH or some other such people at the Hague. I really am not against the ICC and international laws and am glad we are not going to have a repeat of the madness that took place after the last elections courtesy of ICC. Am just concerned about the double standards.
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Rank: User Joined: 5/3/2011 Posts: 559
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@ Josiah33,
What did Bush do? He invaded Iraq, he declare war according to the USA constitution, the casualties you see in Iraq and Afga... can me argued to be casualties of war. However, you cannot go to war against your own people, that is crime against humanity, you cannot also attack unarmed civillians during war, that is also crime against humanity, while there has been a number of civillian casualties in Iraq and Afga... there is no clear pattern to suggest that US is intentionally attacking civillians in Iraq or Afga, get the point?
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/23/2011 Posts: 175 Location: Nairobi
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Drunkard wrote:@ Josiah33,
What did Bush do? He invaded Iraq, he declare war according to the USA constitution, the casualties you see in Iraq and Afga... can me argued to be casualties of war. However, you cannot go to war against your own people, that is crime against humanity, you cannot also attack unarmed civillians during war, that is also crime against humanity, while there has been a number of civillian casualties in Iraq and Afga... there is no clear pattern to suggest that US is intentionally attacking civillians in Iraq or Afga, get the point? crimes against humanity are not neccesarily committed against one's own countrymen.
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