wazua Thu, Dec 4, 2025
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In

5 Pages<1234>»
Is Kenya a Failed State
mali ya nguvu
#21 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 6:33:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/7/2009
Posts: 115
Kenya is failed state just sustained to stay afloat by some few good ordinary kenyans...

How many people have we arrested and prosecuted since the PEV?

A failed state can not administer justice and respect of basic human rights for its citizens,kenya scores zero on this end.

A failed state can not guarantee sovereignty and pride for its citizens,where is pride for this beloved country?

@ obi
dont compare Kenya and Rwanda.....the latter has a focussed vision and in less than a decade you may see why Rwanda is a darling of the west in the region.

Our difference with Somalia and Afaghanistan is that we are not in active war but a passive one yes!!!



Peace to all men of Goodwill
The Real Shaft
#22 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 7:38:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 839
i beg to differ...

kenya is not a state...

to begin with...

we are a conglomerate....

of barbaric tribesmen.....

hammering at each with clubs,machetes,stones,et cetera.....

in the hammering...

we are quite successful....

I'm the real Massey F.....shut your mouth
I'm the real Massey Fergu...... Shut your mouth....
VituVingiSana
#23 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 8:00:00 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,292
Location: Nairobi
Kenya has DROPPED in its standard of living since 1963 versus most Asian countries. These include S. Korea (which went through a brutal civil war),Singapore (race riots early on),Thailand (lots of problems yet they are far better off than us),India (where do i start with their problems yet #1 in BPO & huge presence in Silicon Valley),China (did you watch the olympics? The new superpower),etc

Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
willin2learn
#24 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 8:15:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/12/2008
Posts: 1,178
Some people here have vehemently refused to open their eyes to the following truths;

1. That we do not have a working executive. Actually we are not sure if we have an executive or how many we have.

2. Our Legislature is made of largely what has been agreed here at SK as Mpigs. They can't even pass a simple Tribunal law. Maize and iol brokers

3. The Judiciary has been ailing,was scheduled for Radical surgery but our Health insitutions are worse so no help there. Kenyans only resort to them as a last resort.

My question; if the above is what constitutes the 3 Arms of the Government yet Kenyans do not trust in any of them nor do the 3 Arms trust each other,aren't we a failed state?


adept
#25 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 8:34:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/8/2008
Posts: 359
In case you had not seen it,the full 2009 list is here:
http://www.fundforpeace....si/fsi2009/fsi_2009.xls

and for insight on how the scores are arrived at,see the analysis for 2008 here:

http://www.fundforpeace....p;id=342&Itemid=503
There maybe substance in what the report says tho I do not agree with everything stated therein. Alot of the info seems to have been picked directly from media reports as opposed to independent research. I find it interesting that we lag way behind a country like Sierra Leone. Many of the perceptions on Kenya could be as a result of a vocal (sometimes overzealous) civil society that does not hesitate to present reports on state wrongdoing (whether real or imaginary) to everyone that cares to listen in Geneva,New York etc.
Kesh money
#26 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 8:53:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/10/2009
Posts: 13
@Obi 1 Kanobi
i have 2 agree with you. I believe that one of our main short comings as kenyans is letting others define us and dictate our every step. It seems that many have not heard or do not conform to the saying 'kelele za chura hazimkatazi ng'ombe kunywa maji'. I believe that as kenya we undoubtedly have our many challenges. Whether we have the political will and focus to solve our problems is the subject of another long discussion. Having said that i think it would be a disservice,to the patriots and the hardworking kenyans,if we were to call kenya a failed state. Kenya is at a crucial point,which some may call the make-or-break point but which i would rather call the make-or-make point. Reforms may be taking long but atleast they are taking place. I don't think that kenya has ever invested this heavily on roads before and i also consider the landing of the fibre optic cable as an important milestone. I know and agree that much more could have been done but remember kenyans that this will only be a reality if we appreciated our weaknesses (e.g our court system,transport systems,food and water system among others ) got focused and stopped paying too much attention to the 'frogs' of this world. We know our problems lets now fix them. The main reason why kenya looks like a failed state is arguably because we are a relevant country and our failures get twice as much mention (sadly from some of our own 'patriotic' press) as our successes. So i beg all of you,my fellow kenyans,do not loose hope. Despite the noise hata kesho,wednesday,we'll have a better coutry than today,tuesday! Alluta continua!

Stash Inc.
Obi 1 Kanobi
#27 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 8:54:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
When Kenya becomes a failed state,we will not be able to debate whether its a failed state or not.

In the meantime,lets keep debating.

After an accident,running around screeming and wailing is fine to attract attention,but when the attendants are only keen to pronounce you dead,then you are better off slapping yourself in the face,calming down and bandaging your wounds as best as you can.

Most of the African countries will still have to go through the political awakening that kenya,Zimbabwe,Ivory Coast and Ghana went through and which only Ghana made it unscathed. I hope the success rate improves as they learn from our mistakes. We shall see but all those stable countries will be rocked once citizens demand more openness,looked at Madagascar. Rwanda is a success but everything is under the thumb of Kagame,take him out and the country would fall to pieces in record time.

We may be a failed state but we can still put together a rugby team to beat the US,UK and Australia at will,our athletes still dominate the olympics,our airline still gives BA and Virgin a run for their money,we are still the worlds largest exporters of Horticulture and tea which by the way requires a high degree of organized farming.

If you all want to keep running back to our politics to judge the entire country,then good luck,politics and good governance is important and crucial for growth,but to ignore the rest of Kenya because of political failures is ridiculous. Yes please lets keep agitating for political changes,but on our terms,not on the terms of foreign governments who serve their own interests.


I've noticed the youth in particular coming in to a workplace with a completely outsized notion of their own value and importance... just a thinly-veiled arrogance. May be the credit crunch induced recession is whats needed to remind us all about the value of hard work.... By Anonymous
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
The General
#28 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:08:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/3/2006
Posts: 553
@ Obi,i couldnt have put it better. you are spot on.

The thicker the thigh the sweeter the pie.
The thicker the thigh the sweeter the pie.
Brewer
#29 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:16:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/24/2008
Posts: 238
The ODM brigade have done a full circle on this issue of failed state especially immediately after the elections and the place reserved for Koffi Annan in the management of our affairs. Remember also the ODM position on the extrajudicial killings. Why are we surprised when the rest of the world takes us seriously?
Djinn
#30 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:17:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/13/2008
Posts: 1,565
@Obi Wan and SimonKabz - you have nailed it. I am also pretty fed up with people making such assertions yet when you ask what they are doing to help matters,they draw blanks. I personally HATED it when PEV was highlighted in the western media,and at some point likened to the Rwanda genocide. Unlike some countries like Iran,Zimbabwe,China,you did not hear of press getting gagged (and the furore about Media bill was another great LAUGH...what a$$holes). In recent days the Basiji in Iran (akin to Hitler's SS or Gestapo) in Iran have been clobbering the living daylights out of people. In China in recent days also,there have been ethnic/religious clashes with people karate-ing the bejesus out of each other - women or children - and in the middle of big cities. Other day some Austrian was found to have locked up HIS daughter for decades and fathered many kids with her (and we are likened to barbarians because of some civil unrest)....so now we have these BRIGHT MINDS keen to tell us that ours is a failed state and the mere fact that they are able to say so freely in a democratic state,without going missing,is telling in itself. Here's 30 bob - go buy a rope and hang yourself. What Kenya needs is positive thinkers - people who will be part of the solution - not spectators to their OWN destiny.




Failed state my ass! OK we have let the water towers disappear but can we control the weather? Fuel/Food has gone up and the general cost of living - can we control how fast China and the sub-continent propagate (thus putting a strain on food and fuel demand)? get real.

The problem with equality is that we desire that it be with those that have more than us rather that those that have less
mundu wa thi
#31 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:39:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/24/2009
Posts: 5
@djinn even if we cant control weather and those that are beyond our control ... i think we should not feel powerless n weak ... we can mitigate the effects of weather and others by having vision ...case in point ... horticulture even in this dry weather they are exporting even more products ...

there's is always something to hope for...
mali ya nguvu
#32 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:28:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/7/2009
Posts: 115
@all

lets not take mediocrity for good leadership.....am sure kenya has not even exploited 10% of its potential.....

As noted earlieron if it were not for good citizenry this country would have been in ruins....

Guys lets keep up the good work to slow down the degradation of this nation....

Peace to all men of Goodwill
wa P
#33 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:59:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 326
Location: Nairobi
Kenya is not a failed state. Actually,we are doing VERY WELL. Check the CIA world Factbook on Kenya.

I used to be a self hater but when i visited many countries,including the so called 'first world' especially in Europe,I could not help marvel at the slavery and choreography that those guys must live with to maintain themselves; you miss a minute and you cant pay bills.

If you think Kenya is bad,take 3 days off,buy a ticket to any 'dream' African country such as Malawi (2nd fastest growing economy in the world) or Mozambique (plenty of rains). When you come back pls post a note on SK. My friends,with our warts and all (Mpigs,I like that) we are light years ahead of many countries in the world.

For the usual challenges that we face; everyone has the duty to make life better for her/himself and the neighbor. Forget the negative local and foreign media,and also the overzealous civil society. They eat off other peoples vomit.



If it looks clean,it keeps your pockets clean. I mean,look at the soil...
half_empty
#34 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:13:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/23/2007
Posts: 127
labels may not seem to mean much... not until the country risk rating is down graded... and gvmt has to borrow at much higher interest rate to meet innumerable dvpmt challenges... the problems are well documented... the solutions have been discussed at length...can we get new constitution already
MADE
#35 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:27:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/12/2007
Posts: 391
Kenya is not a failed state. The pple are indeed very hard working and optimistic. Its the leaders who've failed us thru' failed institutions. sample this:
- A failed Executive thru' a stolen election
- a failed Judiciary thru' unprocedural appointments and corruption in the corridors of justice
- a failed Legislature thru' compromising Mps to pass/defeat motions
- a politicised civil service

It's not where yu are,but where yu want to be.
Age is transforming me into an Elder;becoz Admin hasn't made me one.
Obi 1 Kanobi
#36 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:43:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
@WaP

Very astute observation vis a viz the kenyan scenario.

Infact I would like people to visit the western countries to have an idea of how not to live your life. This people live like sh*t. Ever wonder why their populations are falling.

As for the other african countries,they are ranked better because no one has an idea what goes on there.

Isn't it ironic that the west send Somalia pirates to be tried in Kenya 'A failed state' why didn't they send them elsewhere,to say like TZ,or UG or Egypt or Saudi Arabia (to have their hands chopped). We fail when its convinient for them.

I've noticed the youth in particular coming in to a workplace with a completely outsized notion of their own value and importance... just a thinly-veiled arrogance. May be the credit crunch induced recession is whats needed to remind us all about the value of hard work.... By Anonymous
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
Mainat
#37 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:48:00 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
Is Kenya a better country to live in/be born in/earn a living in today compared to 1964?


www.mjengakenya.blogspot.com
Sehemu ndio nyumba
mkristo
#38 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:56:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 168
Location: Nairobi
KENYA HAS MANY PROBLEMS; it is my mother LAND.

I am approaching 40 years of age; most of the food that has kept me alive and healthy has been grown on KENYAN soil.

I LOVE MY COUNTRY KENYA; I LOVE THE PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY; WE ARE A GREAT NATION AND TOGETHER WE CAN DO EXPLOITS.

AND WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE.

KENYA IS NOT A FAILED STATE; I THINK SOMALI IS; PERIOD!!!


each day is a gift from God; I dont know if I will be here tomorrow; should I be,I'll make the most of it for God's glory; should I be not,pick up and keep the legacy
Brewer
#39 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 1:38:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/24/2008
Posts: 238
@MADE- you cannot list those institutions as failed and say Kenya as a state has not failed. Maybe we need to define 'failed'. Sometime I wonder whether presidency is all we think when we say 'executive' because the interaction of an ordinary kenyan is not with the President or the Prime Minister for that matter,but with the core of the government especially through the civil service which is quite intact and running and Kenyans interact with it every day- register births and deaths,issue IDs and passports,go to government hospitals,take their children to public schools etc.

Our MPigs are a piece of work,but consider what their main work is- to make law and check the executive. There are a lot of laws that I would certainly want made or changed but a lot others are made all the time. I shudder at the collusion between the executive and the legislature especially on the issue of payment of their taxes but ask any minister whether he likes appearing before a parliamentary committee for grilling and they will tell you of their dread.

You could carry out a simple test on whether the state has failed- Why not commit a blatant crime and you will be surprised how easily you will be apprehended and are surprised parliament made a law,the executive exists to arrest you and arraign you in court; the judiciary exists to haul you in jail. So you may bribe your way thro it all but do you want to try?
wa P
#40 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2009 2:48:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 326
Location: Nairobi
@Mainat

Is it better in Kenya now than it was in 1964? YES. I was not there in 1964,but most of the real development in Kenya (infrastructure,political evolution,lessons on how NOT to do things,open society,freedom of expression...) have taken place since 1991. I was a mature lad then,and can relate with the happenings.

Make no mistake - In 1964 and around when Obama was born,Kenya must have been good in many ways. But the 'goodness' was not brought forth by Kenyans for Kenyans. The mzungu had just taken all the good land,had built nice infrastructure to and for that land,had displaced many people and had killed others to achieve the 'goodness'.

Look at South Africa today,and it can give you a relative impression of how things here looked in 1964. They are developed. Life has been 'good' only for a minority. Now life there is no longer good for anybody.

Lets do the following:

1. Appreciate that we are Kenya. Look at yourself - are you bad? are you a failure?
2. We have problems here and there - we isolate fact from fiction and take steps to solve the problems. Starting from individual level.
3. We talk less and act more.
4. We take responsibilities for our mistakes like the 210 mistakes (exxagerated) in parliament. Can we agree on the kind of leader we need per 'district'?
5. When somebody call us monkey,we should not start acting like monkey. Because when we call him pig,he does not behave like pig.
6. Need to understand Africa - we have been thrusted from the prestigious 'Hunter Gatherer' lifestyle (how I miss it!!) into Agrarian,Industrial and now Information ages all within 100 years. We are bound to get confused as we tinker with foreign ideologies like western democracy,man- eat- man capitalism etc. The post Information age is going to be African age.

and many other steps we can take at individual level to stabilize Kenya.

Lastly,lest you forget our national anthem.

If it looks clean,it keeps your pockets clean. I mean,look at the soil...
Users browsing this topic
Guest (4)
5 Pages<1234>»
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Copyright © 2025 Wazua.co.ke. All Rights Reserved.