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Kalonzo's shuttle diplomacy was in vain
Rank: User Joined: 1/27/2011 Posts: 53
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You and I know that our government has different ministries and departments and their respective budgetary allocations to address various operations within their dockets. You cannot stop international relations at the expense of internal/special programmes and vice versa. Let Esther, Sally, Orengo, Saitoti and others run their ministries effectively to address the IDPs plight. The mention of threats from outsiders (particular the US and her western allies) reverberates imperialism to me. As the Masai (ole Njore) pointed out, I was thoroughly astonished to learn how the US and her allies abandoned Hosni when Egypt needed them most. How can they advise him to ng'atuka pap without overseeing the transition. As we discuss this topic, let us be balanced in thought.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,504 Location: Uganda
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Simon we are just mortals .Most of us writing here will not be around in the next 10 years, yes just 10 years through natural selection.Should we clean things now, we may suffer in the remaining while , but our children will enjoy the sweet fruits.. Hague saves our kids from impunity.Things will be done the right way.Not people slashing others like animals just because their 'win' was 'stolen'. simonkabz wrote:If any of the Ocampo 6 is jailed in foreign land, a seed of permanent hatred n open tribal intolerance will hav been sown. Lets face the truth, pple will never 4get their own son rotting in some foreign soil. RAO may NEVER be 4given by a large section of the Kenyan society. As evident in parliament, the ICC issue has taken a POLITICAL n in turn, a TRIBAL dimention. Let me emphasize, ICC saga cant, and WONT auger well 4 Kenya! punda amecheka
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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@NF, u hav a point bt I see things very differently. The PEV suspects n any other rabble rousing elite have all experienced the bitter fruits of the PEV. The lesson has already been driven home. Everybody now knows what violence will beget....immediate n belated consequences...The hague process will add no xtra value to what we have already learnt fm the NAMING of the suspects. These goons r already too scared anyway....regretting..... They have a huge local following (machinani). Its this last point that u must think of DEEPLY b4 commenting. TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Chief Joined: 8/24/2009 Posts: 5,909 Location: Nairobi
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simonkabz wrote:@NF, u hav a point bt I see things very differently. The PEV suspects n any other rabble rousing elite have all experienced the bitter fruits of the PEV. The lesson has already been driven home. Everybody now knows what violence will beget....immediate n belated consequences...The hague process will add no xtra value to what we have already learnt fm the NAMING of the suspects. These goons r already too scared anyway....regretting..... They have a huge local following (machinani). Its this last point that u must think of DEEPLY b4 commenting. @thimioni, I beg to differ on this point...I do not believe we have learnt much...look at the nominations of the CJ, AG, DPP na yule wa budget..the nominations clearly go well with the perceived voting pattern in parliament (hapa wamechapa RAO 10 - 0) - i'm sure some of us even wazuans, are smiling over this. Do you believe the meeting WR hosted in eldy was to make peace? If it was to make peace, most of the government if not all should have been invited, and they should have addressed the issue of settling IDPs. I still do not believe we have learnt anything from PEV, hence the current political landscape...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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All the IDPs had land and houses before PEV, if real peace has been achieved in RV, resettlement would not be an issue, unfortunately the so called peace in RV is only plastic and artificial!@!!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/14/2007 Posts: 4,152
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nostoppingthis wrote:simonkabz wrote:@NF, u hav a point bt I see things very differently. The PEV suspects n any other rabble rousing elite have all experienced the bitter fruits of the PEV. The lesson has already been driven home. Everybody now knows what violence will beget....immediate n belated consequences...The hague process will add no xtra value to what we have already learnt fm the NAMING of the suspects. These goons r already too scared anyway....regretting..... They have a huge local following (machinani). Its this last point that u must think of DEEPLY b4 commenting. @thimioni, I beg to differ on this point...I do not believe we have learnt much...look at the nominations of the CJ, AG, DPP na yule wa budget..the nominations clearly go well with the perceived voting pattern in parliament ( hapa wamechapa RAO 10 - 0) - i'm sure some of us even wazuans, are smiling over this. Do you believe the meeting WR hosted in eldy was to make peace? If it was to make peace, most of the government if not all should have been invited, and they should have addressed the issue of settling IDPs. I still do not believe we have learnt anything from PEV, hence the current political landscape... "However, Muthaura said the PM’s Permanent Secretary Mohammed Isahakia told him Raila had no problem with Githu, but insisted on Justice Omolo for CJ. Omondi, however, insisted Raila only talked of the most senior Appellant judge, who in Judiciary’s own ranking is Omolo." THE STANDARD Raila's main issue was with the CJ nomination, otherwise he was quite comfortable with everything else.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/20/2008 Posts: 367
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newfarer wrote:simonkabz wrote:If any of the Ocampo 6 is jailed in foreign land, a seed of permanent hatred n open tribal intolerance will hav been sown. Lets face the truth, pple will never 4get their own son rotting in some foreign soil. RAO may NEVER be 4given by a large section of the Kenyan society. As evident in parliament, the ICC issue has taken a POLITICAL n in turn, a TRIBAL dimention. Let me emphasize, ICC saga cant, and WONT auger well 4 Kenya! Fungua macho ICC is the best thing to happen in Kenyan history. At no time have we seen leaders running around like headless chicken. It will sort out impunity . It will mean that even if RAO or Martha Karua of Kalonzo Musyoka is defeated in 2012 , no one will finance hungry youth to torch houses whether steadman or synovate had shown him/her as the leading candidate in the opinion polls . ICC itakuwa funzo kwa wengine wenye nia kama ya 2007 @newfarerVery True and SimonKabz, Lets face the truth, pple will never 4get their own son rotting in some foreign soil!!!! There are Kenyans being detained in Uganda, Guantanamo Bay, Uganda and life is going on. Let Kalonzo bring those people back if he cares so much about our "sovereignty."
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/17/2010 Posts: 234 Location: Nairobi
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the Hague is less than 5% of the solution. the TJRC is close to 60%.
as long as the TJRC is an amorphous, dysfunctional body, it is just a matter of time before there is another massive outbreak of violence.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/26/2008 Posts: 319
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Reality my pple, reality. Not ideal situations, Reality is what counts.
In this case, Justice is reality. If Kenya is sovereign, just and has the integrity to carry through the ICC case, we would already have the goodwill to take these pple to court - it would not have taken the ICC to awaken the quest for justice. These cases would have been taken up immediately after the situation - REALITY - there is no goodwill to prosecute these pple.
The people want the government to do something - if it was a tribunal, we wanted it formed yesteryear, yesterday, not tomorrow or next year....let the cases start - the country wont let this case go.
Gava ichukue hatua haraka - wasikizane, tribunal iwe formed to international standards, non-partial - na sio principals ati wafanye tribal balancing - then let the cases start. Upon seeing this, the Hague quest will grind to a gradual halt bila stress. Until then, wakwende hague!!
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Rank: Chief Joined: 8/24/2009 Posts: 5,909 Location: Nairobi
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,504 Location: Uganda
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Karema Hiti wrote:You and I know that our government has different ministries and departments and their respective budgetary allocations to address various operations within their dockets. You cannot stop international relations at the expense of internal/special programmes and vice versa. Let Esther, Sally, Orengo, Saitoti and others run their ministries effectively to address the IDPs plight. The mention of threats from outsiders (particular the US and her western allies) reverberates imperialism to me. As the Masai (ole Njore) pointed out, I was thoroughly astonished to learn how the US and her allies abandoned Hosni when Egypt needed them most. How can they advise him to ng'atuka pap without overseeing the transition. As we discuss this topic, let us be balanced in thought. have you forgotten that we have Kenyan terror suspects in Uganda, there is still Ugandan millitary and flag in the 1 acre stone Kenyan fish rich island of Migingo. Ama foreigners are bad when they are Mzungu's not fellow Africans and if Mzungu they are only good when we go with our begging bowls when we need donor support? or when they stop us when we are killing one another? punda amecheka
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/30/2009 Posts: 1,390
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Seeders wrote:the Hague is less than 5% of the solution. the TJRC is close to 60%.
as long as the TJRC is an amorphous, dysfunctional body, it is just a matter of time before there is another massive outbreak of violence. hapo umenena kama wazee kumi. The thugs who did the crimes did not come from Djibouti. They were Kenyans full of hatred. Hatred that is still there. What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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Yup. Hatred that has rejuvenated by the ICC. Me thinks ICC should have pushed, bt not shoved. Remember the story of the man who tried to corner a cat. Jana we were discussing that issue. The few supporting did so in hushed tones, those fm RV took it personally at some point. That must b a gud reflection of the emotive issue at the grassroots. TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 1,279 Location: nbi
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I am surprised by the sheer blindness portrayed here. Until we Kenyans start jailing the high and mighty, nobody will believe that the ICC is the solution. The hatred is is not arising now. As i said in an earlier post, the reason IDPs have not been able to go back to homes that they bought and built with their own hard cash is because the majority of kales said in 2007/8 that they must leave for good. That kind off bulsit attitude can only be quashed by jailing their leaders The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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thimioni, this ICC shy scares the shyt outtaya broda!!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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Hehehe @mcr not really. Infact, I give no f%*€ about the H6. (I just love this thought provoking subject) Rather, knowing that the WEST stands for, I stand 4a local solution n will die by that. P.S, aint changing ma mind. If pple lyk ithaka knew exactly how the UN operates, they would probably get into depression 4even wishing ICC on kenya. U dnt collect sovereignty fm the bush, blood is shed to earn it. Im not ready to hav a western puppet 4a president, tafadhali. We've come so far without the west anyway. How dare Obama open his mouth n dictate terms to an independent state? Why is the US not a signatory to the Rome statute? A BIG WHY....WHY? WHY? WHY? WHY? WHY? WHY? TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/30/2009 Posts: 1,390
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I disagree with you Simon on this. ICC si mbaya. It will work on leaders but it will do zero to tame the thug whose father participated in violence in 1991,1993 and 1997 then he retired. Then he gave his son heroic stories about how he managed to chase the 'enemy' from 'their' land. The son took up and killed people frm the enemy tribe in 2005 and 2007. He too feels good about it and will pass it down to his son. People think impunity is by leaders only? simonkabz wrote:Yup. Hatred that has rejuvenated by the ICC. Me thinks ICC should have pushed, bt not shoved. Remember the story of the man who tried to corner a cat. Jana we were discussing that issue. The few supporting did so in hushed tones, those fm RV took it personally at some point. That must b a gud reflection of the emotive issue at the grassroots. What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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Rank: Chief Joined: 8/24/2009 Posts: 5,909 Location: Nairobi
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Enyewe this must be shuttle diplomacy...from the 5 voters at the UN security council...US/UK will not vote for deferral... China must be doing so to benefit and establish their roots in Africa
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/21/2007 Posts: 326
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Just before the AU summit KKK won two key psychological battles a) the African shuttle diplomacy was gaining momenta and b) kibaki pulled a fast one on judicial nominations. 14 days later it appears the hague brigade didnot heed advice to stop digging...they have dug themselves into a deeper pit by appearing to subvert the hague process unconstitutionally..two UN veto powers have said as much, their errand boy Kalonzo has ended up with another egg on his face "failed hague coup" I can't wait for 2012 campaigns..the tv adverts will be so mouth watering. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 2/14/2011 Posts: 40
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see the --- of these fellows?
we were told the shuttle diplomacy was a success unlike some other failed ivory coast mission.....that one.
we were told kenya is reclaiming its sovereignty. the nominations were a pointer to that.
we were told christian wenaweser was a low life that could be waved away without any consequence.
what are we being told now. its awfully quiet from that quarter. has the messenger left for further shuttle diplomacy?
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Kalonzo's shuttle diplomacy was in vain
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