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the highly farcical goings-on in government...
Rank: Elder Joined: 5/30/2009 Posts: 1,390
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newfarer wrote: Kibakis government may have constructed the roads , FPE CDF but it may come out as a goverment that was out of touch with the people.
Moi was veeeeeery bad , but atleast he was in touch with the people on the ground.He knew the breaking limits of the people.eg the repealing sect 2A in 1990s.
@newfarer You had a good point until you got to the point of comparing Moi and Kibaki and concluded that Moi is better. Please don't forget how many men had their nyeti finywad at Nyayo hse before Moi could yield to pressure. Kibaki plays with any loophole he can find that favours him. Moi, on the other hand was the law itself, he was always 'right'! Mwai may have numerous weaknesses and messes, but comparing him to Moi is being too unfair to him or being too generous to Toroitich! What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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kadonye wrote:newfarer wrote: Kibakis government may have constructed the roads , FPE CDF but it may come out as a goverment that was out of touch with the people.
Moi was veeeeeery bad , but atleast he was in touch with the people on the ground.He knew the breaking limits of the people.eg the repealing sect 2A in 1990s.
@newfarer You had a good point until you got to the point of comparing Moi and Kibaki and concluded that Moi is better. Please don't forget how many men had their nyeti finywad at Nyayo hse before Moi could yield to pressure. Kibaki plays with any loophole he can find that favours him. Moi, on the other hand was the law itself, he was always 'right'! Mwai may have numerous weaknesses and messes, but comparing him to Moi is being too unfair to him or being too generous to Toroitich! May I take the liberty to refer you to the East African How Kibaki Squandered what he inheritedAnd excerpts from that article reads Quote:Kibaki is a man who is loyal to his friends, and his close circle, whose views he values, are elderly men whose imagination is no longer fired by international ambitions.
Most of them are now tribal chiefs, uninterested in matters beyond the next hill............
..............At a wider level, the ascent of Kibaki to power was a victory for Kenya’s old business and farming class. The Kibaki government is swayed by land and farming interests from Kenya’s central and eastern farming regions.
These are largely rich, conservative men and women, who don’t want any noise that will disturb the market. In that sense, Kibaki’s reluctance to stick his nose into matters outside Kenya has served the business class, allowing them to spread into the East Africa Community and Comesa markets and Southern Sudan, and to make fortunes none would even have dreamt of 10 years ago. So you are right when you intimate that Kibaki may be better than Moi, but then better to whom? There is no denying that a lot of money has been made, hence a lot of burdens eased. But the question is to whom? So I agree with Mr. Newfarer, that this government is out of touch with the people, the ordinary people. And that Kibaki and Moi presidencies are nothing but a zero sum scenario for Kenya. So why did Moi get kicked out so viciously?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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@that is a great article, but u didnt have to give us that useless excerpt which dilutes the whole thing...The first comment noma sana...no other country can manage n sustain so much noise fm everyone n remain in 1 piece. Yes, kenya is a DIPLOMATIC n a POLITICAL comedy, but united by citizen BICKERING, UJUAJI n ACTIVISM. Its a Kenyan peculiarity n cant help bt be a proud kenyan "mjuaji". TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,505 Location: Uganda
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Kadonye ,Im NOT Mois fan, Moi destroyed this country and my peer generation was one of the hardest hit . What I'm saying is that the Strongman had his ears on the ground whether through the notorious special branch or his sycophants and knew where to stop. I'm sure if he was still our president today we would have done a Ben Ali on him.He could have changed the constitution to rule for life but he left at the right time in 2002. Kibaki and his men seems not aware of what is happening in the ground. There are IDPs in the camps in the fourth year of his rulership. And he is frustrating all the efforts to ensure that no one imagines causing the chaos we saw in 2007.No prosecutions have been done locally so far and now he is frustrating international prosecutions. punda amecheka
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/14/2007 Posts: 4,152
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newfarer wrote:Kadonye ,Im NOT Mois fan, Moi destroyed this country and my peer generation was one of the hardest hit . What I'm saying is that the Strongman had his ears on the ground whether through the notorious special branch or his sycophants and knew where to stop.
I'm sure if he was still our president today we would have done a Ben Ali on him.He could have changed the constitution to rule for life but he left at the right time in 2002.
Kibaki and his men seems not aware of what is happening in the ground. There are IDPs in the camps in the fourth year of his rulership.
And he is frustrating all the efforts to ensure that no one imagines causing the chaos we saw in 2007.No prosecutions have been done locally so far and now he is frustrating international prosecutions.
Very weird indeed, who are these men you are referring to and why haven't you said anything about the Right Honourable Prime Minister who plays a major role in government. The problem with Kenyans is that we always seem to isolate individuals whenever something goes wrong in government....all these politicians (MK, RAo,Kalonzo, Uhuru, Ruto) were in Moi's government but now we look at them as revolutionist.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,505 Location: Uganda
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TAZ wrote:[quote=newfarer] (MKarua RAo,Kalonzo, Uhuru, Ruto) were in Moi's government but now we look at them as revolutionist. All this are not in my list of preferred presidential candidate .Id rather spoil my Presidential vote than vote for any of these. I have severally said this and I mean it.See my signature. punda amecheka
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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@Djinn, Pls allow me to quote Karl Marx: The history of all hitherto existing societies is the history of class struggles......The executive of the modern State is but a committee for managing the common affairs of the whole bourgeoisie......The bourgeoisie has subjected the country to the rule of the towns. It has created enormous cities, has greatly increased the urban population as compared with the rural,and has thus rescued a considerable part of the population from the idiocy of rural life. (this can only be said a few African states in the North) where the masses live in towns.
This is what gives birth to class struggles. But more important is the birth of class consciousness as you very well said it. This consciousness is what lacks in huge chunks of our continent, yet the number of working class is not yet significant enough vis a vis the peasants are least revolutionary in nature.
I agree alot has changed since 1970s but majority of our people are still rural based and still enthralled with the "idiocy of rural life". That is why the only revolutions known in black Africa are Military Coups.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/13/2008 Posts: 1,565
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Rahatupu wrote:@Djinn, Pls allow me to quote Karl Marx: The history of all hitherto existing societies is the history of class struggles......The executive of the modern State is but a committee for managing the common affairs of the whole bourgeoisie......The bourgeoisie has subjected the country to the rule of the towns. It has created enormous cities, has greatly increased the urban population as compared with the rural,and has thus rescued a considerable part of the population from the idiocy of rural life. (this can only be said a few African states in the North) where the masses live in towns.
This is what gives birth to class struggles. But more important is the birth of class consciousness as you very well said it. This consciousness is what lacks in huge chunks of our continent, yet the number of working class is not yet significant enough vis a vis the peasants are least revolutionary in nature.
I agree alot has changed since 1970s but majority of our people are still rural based and still enthralled with the "idiocy of rural life". That is why the only revolutions known in black Africa are Military Coups. @Rahatupu - I think Karl Marx's ideologies might not hold true today because of ONE thing - technology - rural life is no longer rural life. Rural folk no longer exist in isolation and are accesible by radio, TV and MOST important, MOBILE phones. Some of those mobiles have FM. And thats just Karl Marx - have you read the Green Book?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/24/2007 Posts: 1,805
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Guys, I think you are all right. But for comparing Moi and Kibaki. Other than having he title 'president' they have nothing else in common. The way I see it is that what is happening in Kenya now is not really uncommon towards the end of any reign the world over. At such times, we normally have the worst form of critique and tyranny from the populace and government in equal measure. It has been correctly noted that Kibs came in with his guys and they have made their money. If anyone remembers th 1990-2000 era, M01 had the same story of cronies who entrenched impunity in this country. Kibaki has failed in a number of areas but let us give him his cookies too. Our greatest failure as a country was allowing the 24 yeears one man rule.The regime kept us fixated on tribe and the big man syndrome far too long.We actaully have lost two genrations of leadership i.e people aged btn 50 to 70.That is why we are having problems getting a good fit for a president. It will take a while to change, maybe another 5years or so, for Kenyans to start being class oriented and ta realise that the government has NO money of its own and should be serving us and not the other way around. When that happens, then Kenya will surge forward. We should be very careful how we chose the next government. We should go for people who have proven themsleves e.g Abdul and Peter Kenneth and new blood. The four being touted by the media will be a big big mistake! But again remember, that the cycle will repeat itself at the end of their rulership. I Think Therefore I Am
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