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Mobile price wars to derail new Constitution????
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
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alma wrote:I think bitange watched too much of that niko na safaricom advert.
Ati supporting safaricom is the same as supporting the new constitution. Ergo using Bitange's warped logic, supporting Safaricom is the same as supporting Ali and Muthaura giving orders to kill innocent Kenyans... Niko na nani? Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,548
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The example of distributors troubles in today’s Daily Nation is a good example of decline in spending at micro-economic levels. To impute that spending does not spur economic growth is absurd. To say that money “saved” from reduced demand driven spending on mobile calls from a bustling sturdy Kes 150billion industry and economic arm will automatically be directed to another (make me buy more tomatoes, sodas, beer e.t.c) is simply nonsense and quite dim-witted. As Kenyatta said, ignorance is anyone’s principal foe as it is clearly being illustrated here. This is a huge industry with a huge economic impact if you have ever bothered to listen to any recent report on Kenya’s economic growth. Note, apart from distributors, agents, retailers (shopkeepers)and so on, there will be a knock on effect to advertising, then to media, newspaper vendors, gamblers (who see sense in sending 70/- sms’s to 6969 but not in buying airtime to communicate), to internet and I.T, electronics and many other areas. The funny thing is within a country; all economic activities are somewhat interconnected, that’s why tourism growth/fall for example affects all and sundry not just hotels. Add this to reduced taxes then you might get a clearer picture of what is unfolding, then add the drought to this and the back office jobs (from accountants to hawkers) that airtel has transferred to India (which some here celebrate) and maybe the blind might begin to see what is ahead. Battles for economic survival have to be fought from all fronts. What of investment and interest rates, which affect economic growth, what does this drop in spending portend? When people demand stuff (100 Billion in airtime), someone has to stock this airtime, distribute e.t.c. These people several times need financing for stock, vehicles, salaries, which banks give, because it will be easily recovered, but because of the high demand for credit by these investors (traders/distributors/advertisers), the rates fall as banks compete, the banks make money. But when the 90billion spending slows, borrowing drops, banks raise rates, more people default banks put their money in government securities and government starts cutting rates to spur spending which has been reduced by a major drop in economic activity, to dot. Economies do not grow out of a vacuum, this one will hit all. Ndemo is right, Muganda is right, Chaliwong is right, Collymore is right (ni masomo). A New Kenya
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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@mk, hapo umed* point kama maruge watano. I have my desires 4lower calling rates SO LONG AS treasury accounts remains healthy, kenyans retain their jobs n sustain their telco-related biz TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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That's a tough one for govt. How do you control de-escalating prices Govt. has only one choice here and that is to seal the leaks and only by prosecuting thieving Ministers and govt. officials. They also should allow ministries to return surpluses to Treasury without victimisation because I know that's where most wastage occurs. BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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@Much Know There you go again...equating Safaricom to Kenya While your argument has merit, it is based on some crazy logic that as long as Safaricom continues charging Kenyan citizens a lot of money, then the kenyan economy is Great and wonderful. Safaricom is NOT Kenya. Again i state. If spending less on one company is a constitutional dilemma and is bad for the economy, then this is one economics lesson I missed. I thought I had heard it all. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
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Much Know wrote:The example of distributors troubles in today’s Daily Nation is a good example of decline in spending at micro-economic levels. To impute that spending does not spur economic growth is absurd. To say that money “saved” from reduced demand driven spending on mobile calls from a bustling sturdy Kes 150billion industry and economic arm will automatically be directed to another (make me buy more tomatoes, sodas, beer e.t.c) is simply nonsense and quite dim-witted. As Kenyatta said, ignorance is anyone’s principal foe as it is clearly being illustrated here. This is a huge industry with a huge economic impact if you have ever bothered to listen to any recent report on Kenya’s economic growth.
Note, apart from distributors, agents, retailers (shopkeepers)and so on, there will be a knock on effect to advertising, then to media, newspaper vendors, gamblers (who see sense in sending 70/- sms’s to 6969 but not in buying airtime to communicate), to internet and I.T, electronics and many other areas. The funny thing is within a country; all economic activities are somewhat interconnected, that’s why tourism growth/fall for example affects all and sundry not just hotels. Add this to reduced taxes then you might get a clearer picture of what is unfolding, then add the drought to this and the back office jobs (from accountants to hawkers) that airtel has transferred to India (which some here celebrate) and maybe the blind might begin to see what is ahead. Battles for economic survival have to be fought from all fronts.
What of investment and interest rates, which affect economic growth, what does this drop in spending portend? When people demand stuff (100 Billion in airtime), someone has to stock this airtime, distribute e.t.c. These people several times need financing for stock, vehicles, salaries, which banks give, because it will be easily recovered, but because of the high demand for credit by these investors (traders/distributors/advertisers), the rates fall as banks compete, the banks make money. But when the 90billion spending slows, borrowing drops, banks raise rates, more people default banks put their money in government securities and government starts cutting rates to spur spending which has been reduced by a major drop in economic activity, to dot. Economies do not grow out of a vacuum, this one will hit all. Ndemo is right, Muganda is right, Chaliwong is right, Collymore is right (ni masomo).
So your telling me if fuel went to 50/= per litre, Kenya would suffer? Oh boy, I've heard it all today! Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,548
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@alma & kularaha, you are the ones whove mentioned safaricom not me, i talked about the entire industry, its in a mess. Put aside your dislike for safcom and make an objective look at whats going down. I hope to gain from the short term fall but i still see a problem, cant celebrate other problems. A New Kenya
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/27/2010 Posts: 324 Location: nrb
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@Much Know, Good analysis. However only onesided. Youve not detailed where the savings will go to. And that is if at all, dont you also agree that people will call more and that has effects. Particularly on data, a reduction leads to much greater usage and which has myriad extrapolated effects on the economy and very much longterm.
Perhaps it could be interesting to find out comparable statistics on how much profits % telco sector generates relative to GDPs in comparable economis. But overall, I think what is happening in Kenya is just a an earning redistribution in the industry which had to happen at one time or another. I believe almost
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/7/2010 Posts: 2,148 Location: elderville
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Much Know wrote:@alma & kularaha, you are the ones whove mentioned safaricom not me, i talked about the entire industry, its in a mess. Put aside your dislike for safcom and make an objective look at whats going down. I hope to gain from the short term fall but i still see a problem, cant celebrate other problems. It is in a mess? How so? And why so? The only mess I see there is one dominant player who has been fleecing us for years. He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/11/2009 Posts: 302
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simonkabz wrote:Let no one deceive us that a "slight shortfall" (a whooping 8%) will have negligible effect. Any budget deficit no matter how slight is to our detriment. Rem over 60% of budget is RECURRENT (almost fixed). That means the peanuts meant 4dvt will be slashed further. Constitutiom impl appears most dispensible, n I agree totally with Ndemo. NB, im nt a "rich" crusader, bt I would never vouch 4free things coz that would be the beginning of the end of our fragile economy. Thank you Thimioni. I was gasping for breadth at the insinuation that 8% is inconsequantial in revenue terms. That said though, I fear that service quality is likely to suffer. For those who discount the issue of persons employed by Safcom (ok, telecomms industry as a whole), have they considered how the Kenyan social scen is organised. In Kenya, if you emply one person, you have secured trickle down or transfer earning to many more. Check why M-PESA is popular and why it is difficult to get float in urban areas around end month.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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Is it not so clear that the money GoK earns from: 1. Fuel industry 2. Telecom sector 3. EABL Constitute the bulk of taxes/revenue that accrues directly to the coffers? It is just coincidental that when one mentions telecoms sector in Kenya the next word in the sentence most likely would be Safaricom? So to be objective treasury will suffer. For the technocrats at treasury, a new source will have to be sought to plug the deficit maybe they tax me and you more.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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I once sat down in a company meeting where the CEO told us that our company was so important that no one would let it go as the whole country would collapse...yada yada yada..Buy more shares! The country was USA, the company was ENRON. The next morning we were escorted by armed policemen out of our offices. The lesson I learned is never believe anything coming out a CEO's mouth and there is no company so important in an economy that a major constitutional and economic crisis would ensue. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
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Elder wrote:Much Know wrote:@alma & kularaha, you are the ones whove mentioned safaricom not me, i talked about the entire industry, its in a mess. Put aside your dislike for safcom and make an objective look at whats going down. I hope to gain from the short term fall but i still see a problem, cant celebrate other problems. It is in a mess? How so? And why so? The only mess I see there is one dominant player who has been fleecing us for years. Hear hear!! What mess? We have voice, data, sms and 4 operators pulling each others pants off to please us... Maybe its a mess for Safcom employees, or distributors... Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 1,279 Location: nbi
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As usual we are mixing up issues. Telecoms bring in kitu Ksh10bn tax revenue. The mbudget is now Ksh1trn which means they do diddly to tax revenue. I believe that we can The cut in telecom prices is actually increasing the number and length of calls that we make. Therefore, although broadly mobile revenue will fall due to prices, it'll not fall by a straight line. The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/13/2009 Posts: 1,950 Location: in kenya
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Wa_ithaka wrote:As usual we are mixing up issues. Telecoms bring in kitu Ksh10bn tax revenue. The mbudget is now Ksh1trn which means they do diddly to tax revenue. I believe that we can
The cut in telecom prices is actually increasing the number and length of calls that we make. Therefore, although broadly mobile revenue will fall due to prices, it'll not fall by a straight line. you are just looking on the amount telcos pay you are not looking at dealers,employees who will be chucked,airtime vendors,couriers,men the list is endless.....when these companies start cost cutting measures the impact to the economy is huge dont just look at the effect on the safaricom alone look at who depend on safaricom indirectly. '......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/12/2006 Posts: 1,554
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Extract from Nation by kisero
When the largest company on the Nairobi Stock Exchange, by market capitalisation, issues a price warning, the reverberations will be felt through the length and breadth of the capital markets. At the end of the day, what we are dealing with is weak competition regulation. Indeed, the regulatory regime is still in its infancy. As a country, we still have very little experience and capacity in this area. If you scrutinise the ways the laws have been crafted, you will realise the orientation of the writers of the regulations governing competition in the industry was mainly to tackle abuse of market power by the dominant player. By bringing prices to Sh1 per minute, Airtel has committed no sin because it is not the dominant player. After all, all tariffs are approved by the government. According to the latest study by Analysys Mason, the cost of making a mobile telephone call in Kenya is Sh1.72 per minute exclusive of taxes. If Safaricom was the one driving prices downwards to Sh1 per minute, according to our laws and regulations, it would have been accused of engaging in predatory pricing because it is the dominant market player. Well-informed regulation promotes growth, capital accumulation and job-creation. The mobile phone companies cannot be blamed for engaging in price wars. The culprit is the government.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,548
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@jamani, thanks, Kisero is obviously a well read economic analyst, NMG cannot afford to employ less, the type who say "we will spend the money elsewhere", Have some of us ever seriously sat down to ponder what constitutes money? Do you think it is just Dela rue printers in Ruaraka? Some here sound like Idi Amin when talking of money. A New Kenya
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 1,279 Location: nbi
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selah wrote:Wa_ithaka wrote:As usual we are mixing up issues. Telecoms bring in kitu Ksh10bn tax revenue. The mbudget is now Ksh1trn which means they do diddly to tax revenue. I believe that we can
The cut in telecom prices is actually increasing the number and length of calls that we make. Therefore, although broadly mobile revenue will fall due to prices, it'll not fall by a straight line. you are just looking on the amount telcos pay you are not looking at dealers,employees who will be chucked,airtime vendors,couriers,men the list is endless.....when these companies start cost cutting measures the impact to the economy is huge dont just look at the effect on the safaricom alone look at who depend on safaricom indirectly. Where did I mention Safcom above? I thinkwe are getting carried quite a bit here. Are subscirber numbers being reduced or increased? The answer is they are being increased. Will Kenyans talk more often and for longer? The answer is yes-yes. The telecom industry has to evolve and actually move into broadening its revenue base to include money transfer; internet; m-commerce which they are elready doing. The trend of lower arpu is worldwide not just Kenyan based. Airtel wants to increase its subscriber base and there is no better to do it than to reduce prices. The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/29/2008 Posts: 571
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You guys are making a lot of fuss because of Airtel.At sh 1.00 within airtel network is still expensive as per world standards.In the US calls within the same network are free! So,you Safaricom(SufferinCon) shareholders give us a break.I love Airtell.God bless them!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,548
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@Waithaka, based on the current situation and facts your arguments are all wrong, ARPU dropped with the cutting of prices and airtel did not get new subscribers, in fact they eventually lost a number of them, research posted here earlier shows they are lying, i have not received a single airtel call this year and i cant remember for how long, maybe others have but i have not. They have just been giving away free simcards and calling them subscribers thats all, and most will attest to this. A New Kenya
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