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Chase Bank loss...another case of cooking the books?
DtheK
#341 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 10:21:30 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2010
Posts: 118
Location: Kenya
Are people who had deposits in Genghis money market fund safe? Is there a rule that would have prevented Genghis from depositing customers money in Chase bank?
dunkang
#342 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 11:04:59 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,818
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
Angelica _ann wrote:
Boris Boyka wrote:
@Murchr Must be an interested party in Chase Bank. Pole brother.

Defending the indefensible. Thieves were caught, next stage is they refund the money & jail them. rest is sideshows!!!

Some people in wazua just like trolling. This is an open and shut case.

Makosa ilifanyika, na lazima ilipiwe!
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

Othelo
#343 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 11:05:48 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 1/20/2014
Posts: 3,528
As much as we blame social media platform, Chase bank are to blame entirely. If they had not:

1. Sending out figures and within days re-sending a new set of figures restated with massive increment in loans to directors.

2. The Chair and MD/CEO resigning immediately and on the same day.

This is where they were caught. If they had sent out the correct figures indicating the massive increment in borrowing by Directors, nobody would have noticed except the usual high calibre financial gurus whom the masses dont follow. Then they would have put a rescue plan in place (under the watch of Opus Dei) and were likely to succeed without going through receivership.

Stating that the Kshs. 8b was all lent in 2015 (though I don’t believe that) even makes matters worse - shows a poorly run organization despite the strong experience of the listed shareholders.

It is time people in authority and has responsibility bestowed upon them to take those roles serious. Laws should also be made to start making them accountable or be prosecuted; MD/CEO, Board, Board Committee, Senior Management, Management Committees. People should not go to committee to pass time, eat and be paid allowances. They must deliver or be jailed!
Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
enyands
#344 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 1:04:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,300
Location: kenya
Othelo wrote:
As much as we blame social media platform, Chase bank are to blame entirely. If they had not:

1. Sending out figures and within days re-sending a new set of figures restated with massive increment in loans to directors.

2. The Chair and MD/CEO resigning immediately and on the same day.

This is where they were caught. If they had sent out the correct figures indicating the massive increment in borrowing by Directors, nobody would have noticed except the usual high calibre financial gurus whom the masses dont follow. Then they would have put a rescue plan in place (under the watch of Opus Dei) and were likely to succeed without going through receivership.

Stating that the Kshs. 8b was all lent in 2015 (though I don’t believe that) even makes matters worse - shows a poorly run organization despite the strong experience of the listed shareholders.

It is time people in authority and has responsibility bestowed upon them to take those roles serious. Laws should also be made to start making them accountable or be prosecuted; MD/CEO, Board, Board Committee, Senior Management, Management Committees. People should not go to committee to pass time, eat and be paid allowances. They must deliver or be jailed!




Yes some of these "power of many programs"
Othelo
#345 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 1:12:14 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 1/20/2014
Posts: 3,528
What murchr and Alma wanted. Never, ever. smile

muganda wrote:

Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
whiteowl
#346 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 1:22:30 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/16/2014
Posts: 1,420
Location: Bohemian Grove
dunkang wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
Boris Boyka wrote:
@Murchr Must be an interested party in Chase Bank. Pole brother.

Defending the indefensible. Thieves were caught, next stage is they refund the money & jail them. rest is sideshows!!!

Some people in wazua just like trolling. This is an open and shut case.

Makosa ilifanyika, na lazima ilipiwe!


This is the same way the new constitution, advisors and dark forces are blamed whenever an individual does someone wrong/criminal when holding public/private office.
newfarer
#347 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 1:24:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2010
Posts: 3,504
Location: Uganda
dunkang wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
Boris Boyka wrote:
@Murchr Must be an interested party in Chase Bank. Pole brother.

Defending the indefensible. Thieves were caught, next stage is they refund the money & jail them. rest is sideshows!!!

Some people in wazua just like trolling. This is an open and shut case.

Makosa ilifanyika, na lazima ilipiwe!


A prominent Protestant
pastor
Niemöller is perhaps best
remembered for the quotation:


First they came for the Socialists,
and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade
Unionists, and I did not speak out

Because I was not a Trade
Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and
I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and
there was no one left to speak for
me.

Muchr is a strong defender of the current establishment. see how the corruption tolerant leadership has made whitecolar theives so daring.

now muchr may have been caught in this debacle
punda amecheka
Othelo
#348 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 1:58:13 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 1/20/2014
Posts: 3,528
1. So all those serious shareholders didnot have seats on the Board and Board committees? What have they been presenting to their masters?

2. Opus Dei says they have had this issue since October 2015. How did the Board/Major shareholders allow the Chair and CEO to still present falsified reports for 2015 ...... 6 months down the line.

3. Let Chase bank accept their own weaknsesses and mistakes and learn from it, instead of blaming social media.
Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune - Jim Rohn.
murchr
#349 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 3:14:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,979
dunkang wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
Boris Boyka wrote:
@Murchr Must be an interested party in Chase Bank. Pole brother.

Defending the indefensible. Thieves were caught, next stage is they refund the money & jail them. rest is sideshows!!!

Some people in wazua just like trolling. This is an open and shut case.

Makosa ilifanyika, na lazima ilipiwe!



Bull crap, show me one post where I have defended the directors. If you can not read and understand, usisambaze ujinga.

Othelo, companies restate their results all the times Co-op has done it.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
hindsight
#350 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 3:38:50 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/29/2016
Posts: 47
Location: Nairobi, Kenya
My Take..

To those affected;

Focus on the possibilities, when all it's over ,you will be much smarter & shrewd on finance matters. Hence don't let the "failure of the system" hold you down! You can dust yourself no matter the outcome...soldier on!

To those on the Sidelines..

Untill you walk a mile in someone shoes..you don't know how much it takes/understand someone circumstances. Hence thank your heavens you are not one of the "innocent actors" of the chase bank case. The best you can do is help out those close to you to cope with the situation.

To the Regulators/CBK/Govt'..

Times are really catching up with laxity and financial ethics being thrown out of the window. Its been a common joke,that any "big politician/businessman" in the country is connected to a certain bank/Insurance company. Obviously this is a recipe for chaos, Those in finance can relate to the advantage it gives someone (politician/businessman) to exploit the power of leverage and hedging.

Unfortunately, mix this with politics/regulators in the wrong way and its a recipe for disaster. My point is ,law is very clear but time and again we have allowed ourselves to be duped by self interests in disguise of shallow politics and sycophancy. If there is change coming, some senior politicians must be out of the system-not in near future including one senior connected to CBA. That is how deep the financial rot goes! Call it hearsay...but should I say...

To Mwananchi..You & I..

We need to recognize that, no matter what any shortcut or self interest through tribal aligning,circumventing the law, quick shallow capitalism,greed,self imposed political leaders,corruption..and list goes on results to ZERO SUM GAINS! What to do...Start by doing right...hopefully the ripple effect will be felt ,if not now may be in future generations. In the mean time we are experiencing the ripple effects of not how to run capitalism in midst of political machinations and conflict of interest. The net effect CHAOS!

Live your life well, don't settle nor conform to people expectations. It's one of the best way to live life full of bliss and contentment.
maka
#351 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 3:43:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
Sorted
possunt quia posse videntur
murchr
#352 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 3:57:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,979
Othelo wrote:
1. So all those serious shareholders didnot have seats on the Board and Board committees? What have they been presenting to their masters?

2. Opus Dei says they have had this issue since October 2015. How did the Board/Major shareholders allow the Chair and CEO to still present falsified reports for 2015 ...... 6 months down the line.

3. Let Chase bank accept their own weaknsesses and mistakes and learn from it, instead of blaming social media.


Let me try to chew it for you. you = shareholder

Assume you have a kiosk where you have employed someone to run it and then you take audits at the end of the week.
You have allowed your employee to take and give credit as long as its to a certain limit and given time. If your employee takes more than half a bundle of unga, mind you everyone is still buying from you and you are getting more customers, would you immediately know, or this would become visible after you take an audit of books vs inventory?

The directors and management worked together to hide loans given to them from the financials, hence the first set of results. The auditor looked and the books and they were not adding up hence the "qualified opinion" meaning that financial statements are, in a limited way, not in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles.

The auditor has concerns about the company, the valuation of certain items on the balance sheet or some unreported pending liabilities.

At no point did the auditor say the bank was collapsing, infact when the media asked the CBK gov they were told that there was nothing to worry, but no one could trust him, the damage was done and wanjiku ran to withdraw.

No bank in Kenya can survive after experiencing an 8BN withdrawal in hours. Simply because, when you bank your money, its given to someone else as a loan (not liquid)
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
maka
#353 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 4:57:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
dunkang wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
Boris Boyka wrote:
@Murchr Must be an interested party in Chase Bank. Pole brother.

Defending the indefensible. Thieves were caught, next stage is they refund the money & jail them. rest is sideshows!!!

Some people in wazua just like trolling. This is an open and shut case.

Makosa ilifanyika, na lazima ilipiwe!


possunt quia posse videntur
Much Know
#354 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 5:24:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,548
Just to correct this bullshit idea being sold here that "no bank can withstand a run", hio ni ujinga ya 19th century. A modern bank should be able to withstand run, and often carries out tests on it's own called "stress tests", these are simple tests that can be carried out by any serious banker and central bank (it is apparently what they are doing now). Those who were keen during the 2008 financial crisis will remember banks like JP Morgan emphasizing they are ready for a run. There are credit risk analysis, liquidity analysis etc to ensure in any case you can quickly convert some assets to cover "mass withdrawas", lakini kama umeweka pesa Panama ama in speculatory burotis and apartments in Nairobi shauri yako. THERE IS NO WAY ON EARTH social media can bring down a bank! CBK governor ongeza stress!!!!
A New Kenya
murchr
#355 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 5:35:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,979
Much Know wrote:
Just to correct this bullshit idea being sold here that "no bank can withstand a run", hio ni ujinga ya 19th century. A modern bank should be able to withstand run, and often carries out tests on it's own called "stress tests", these are simple tests that can be carried out by any serious banker and central bank (it is apparently what they are doing now). Those who were keen during the 2008 financial crisis will remember banks like JP Morgan emphasizing they are ready for a run. There are credit risk analysis, liquidity analysis etc to ensure in any case you can quickly convert some assets to cover "mass withdrawas", lakini kama umeweka pesa Panama ama in speculatory burotis and apartments in Nairobi shauri yako. THERE IS NO WAY ON EARTH social media can bring down a bank! CBK governor ongeza stress!!!!


Why cant you just name one bank that you know has undergone this kind of "stress test". Is that JP Morgue the same bank that imposed withdrawal limits?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Much Know
#356 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 5:54:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,548
murchr wrote:
Much Know wrote:
Just to correct this bullshit idea being sold here that "no bank can withstand a run", hio ni ujinga ya 19th century. A modern bank should be able to withstand run, and often carries out tests on it's own called "stress tests", these are simple tests that can be carried out by any serious banker and central bank (it is apparently what they are doing now). Those who were keen during the 2008 financial crisis will remember banks like JP Morgan emphasizing they are ready for a run. There are credit risk analysis, liquidity analysis etc to ensure in any case you can quickly convert some assets to cover "mass withdrawas", lakini kama umeweka pesa Panama ama in speculatory burotis and apartments in Nairobi shauri yako. THERE IS NO WAY ON EARTH social media can bring down a bank! CBK governor ongeza stress!!!!


Why cant you just name one bank that you know has undergone this kind of "stress test". Is that JP Morgue the same bank that imposed withdrawal limits?

Sio uwongo bwana, these things are real, if you have never heard of stress tests you see where the problem is. All sensible banks carry stress tests for all this kind of risks!!! Otherwise google!
A New Kenya
alma1
#357 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 5:55:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
murchr wrote:
Much Know wrote:
Just to correct this bullshit idea being sold here that "no bank can withstand a run", hio ni ujinga ya 19th century. A modern bank should be able to withstand run, and often carries out tests on it's own called "stress tests", these are simple tests that can be carried out by any serious banker and central bank (it is apparently what they are doing now). Those who were keen during the 2008 financial crisis will remember banks like JP Morgan emphasizing they are ready for a run. There are credit risk analysis, liquidity analysis etc to ensure in any case you can quickly convert some assets to cover "mass withdrawas", lakini kama umeweka pesa Panama ama in speculatory burotis and apartments in Nairobi shauri yako. THERE IS NO WAY ON EARTH social media can bring down a bank! CBK governor ongeza stress!!!!


Why cant you just name one bank that you know has undergone this kind of "stress test". Is that JP Morgue the same bank that imposed withdrawal limits?


He can't name one. Even his Waiguru did not survive a run.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

Moibutu
#358 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 5:56:22 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/12/2008
Posts: 58
The financial gurus we have in Wazua, please help, going by how much cash chase bank held, somebody who had deposited 3m, how much is he likely to get back?
gk
#359 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 6:08:17 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/17/2008
Posts: 488
Much Know wrote:
Just to correct this bullshit idea being sold here that "no bank can withstand a run", hio ni ujinga ya 19th century. A modern bank should be able to withstand run, and often carries out tests on it's own called "stress tests", these are simple tests that can be carried out by any serious banker and central bank (it is apparently what they are doing now). Those who were keen during the 2008 financial crisis will remember banks like JP Morgan emphasizing they are ready for a run. There are credit risk analysis, liquidity analysis etc to ensure in any case you can quickly convert some assets to cover "mass withdrawas", lakini kama umeweka pesa Panama ama in speculatory burotis and apartments in Nairobi shauri yako. THERE IS NO WAY ON EARTH social media can bring down a bank! CBK governor ongeza stress!!!!


I will take that as a joke!
Those American banks couldnt even have survived the toxic mortgages crisis if it weren't for the Fed rescue plan!
The statutory liquidity ratio is 20%. Why? Banks are supposed to make money from the spread btn lending and deposits rates.. but while depositors (even fixed) can demand their funds anytime, no bank has similar power over borrowers. But if withdrawals are done gradually, its possible to match such obligations frm loan repaymnts or other sources. There's no serious biz or individual with 100% liquidity....
Much Know
#360 Posted : Saturday, April 09, 2016 6:34:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,548
alma1 wrote:
murchr wrote:
Much Know wrote:
Just to correct this bullshit idea being sold here that "no bank can withstand a run", hio ni ujinga ya 19th century. A modern bank should be able to withstand run, and often carries out tests on it's own called "stress tests", these are simple tests that can be carried out by any serious banker and central bank (it is apparently what they are doing now). Those who were keen during the 2008 financial crisis will remember banks like JP Morgan emphasizing they are ready for a run. There are credit risk analysis, liquidity analysis etc to ensure in any case you can quickly convert some assets to cover "mass withdrawas", lakini kama umeweka pesa Panama ama in speculatory burotis and apartments in Nairobi shauri yako. THERE IS NO WAY ON EARTH social media can bring down a bank! CBK governor ongeza stress!!!!


Why cant you just name one bank that you know has undergone this kind of "stress test". Is that JP Morgue the same bank that imposed withdrawal limits?


He can't name one. Even his Waiguru did not survive a run.

Ziko zimefanya hii Kenya for sure!!! And they can't collapse! Hata social media iseme aje!
A New Kenya
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