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Cord attempts to storm IEBC offices
harrydre
#161 Posted : Friday, April 29, 2016 4:05:08 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
kiash
#162 Posted : Friday, April 29, 2016 6:28:30 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/27/2010
Posts: 951
Location: Nyumbani
harrydre wrote:
http://www.nation.co.ke/news/-/1056/3181062/-/pyc94jz/-/index.html



This is a good one, hit below the mbelt.Lets wait and see if they so called politicians will join the hustlers cum activists without their security details.If they really care, they wil do but if they really care, watakaa nyumbani.This thing of hearing teargas and you are rushed to your fuel guzzler leaving the stupid poor people running to their heels should end.
They should even be told not to use their official cars.
hardwood
#163 Posted : Friday, April 29, 2016 9:54:49 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
How will kids go back to school to report for term 2 with baba and his goons running amok in town?
washiku
#164 Posted : Friday, April 29, 2016 12:40:06 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
maka wrote:
@Masukuma can this work?

This IEBC thing, we can do without it and have a automated secure tamperproof system for elections manned by small staff.
In Kenya 80% of people have mobile phones and almost 90% of that know how to use MPESA. If we Kenyans trust MPESA with billions of our Shillings, WHY CAN'T WE BE HONEST TO OUR COUNTRY AND DEVELOP A PLATFORM LIKE THAT OF MPESA TO HANDLE OUR VOTES?????
Example: on your phone you go to app...menu
*Safaricom
*Mpesa
*Vote or USSD *0#

Select "VOTE"√
Enter ID Card Number i.e.123456789√
Enter PIN****√
Election menu
1.President
2.MP
3.Governor
4.MCA
5.WRep.
Reply number No's.1-5
If you select 1.>
1. Presidential candidate name
2. Presidential candidate name
3...lists all candidates

Once you confirm the number and name of your favourite candidate gets his/her vote . Vote is tallied automatically, immediately and transparently rolled to a counter which is broadcast by all media houses live realtime.

Same is done to all elective posts.
Your registered number, your ID No., your pin and your phone IMEI serial no. can not vote twice on any elective post.

The value of this if honestly transparently done like MPESA platform as country we stand to benefit a lot like.....
1. With less than Kshs.100m you will conduct National general elections.
2. No staff ( no expense for wages and salaries)
3. No BVR kits( save all billions used is purchase and maintenance of these plastics)
4.No booths at polling centers
5.No vehicles and helicopters for hiring ( billions saved)
6. No massive expensive paper printing and shipping( all that money is saved).
7.No massive purchase and transporting of plastic ballot boxes.( all that money is saved).
7. No waking up at 4am for day long ques
8. No travelling to your village to vote, you vote from you wherever you are and no stress on voters, they will vote from the comfort of their homes/ bedrooms.
10. Shortest election time, by noon of the election day the election result is out. Before evening elected leaders are confirmed.
11. ...list of benefits and advantages is endless....
Drop your opinion here. .


@Maka, is your name the one below or someone copy pasted your thoughts or you had copy pasted his thoughts or both of you have copy pasted someone's thoughts or both of you have copy pasted someone who had copy pasted someone's else thoughts?




Swenani
#165 Posted : Friday, April 29, 2016 12:41:56 PM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
Swenani
#166 Posted : Friday, April 29, 2016 12:44:58 PM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
masukuma wrote:
@maka,
No! it won't work... I am a tech guy and so this is strange coming from me - right? I have heard this from Tech people who implement systems all over the place and when I started this line of work I thought the same.
But I have thought about this over and over and I have possibly 2 big reasons why this will not work. Let me explain, Remember all mordern electoral systems (systems as in process) are implementations of article 21(3) of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states:
Quote:

The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.


1) Inclusivity
here is the deal - Elections unlike any other thing done by people should not have requirements that 99% of the population. 80% of people have mobile phones and almost 90% is not good enough... it has to be DEMONSTRATABLE 100% OF THE PEOPLE. That is why the requirement to vote is so low! in countries like the US the issue of voting with a photo ID is being debated. To vote you should just have been a citizen and a grownup. by the way citizenship is not granted by the state (we have it all wrong here.... it's an illenable right). but yeah.... having a requirement to have a phone disenfranchises people. The best statement I ever heard about the magic of election day is that IT'S THE ONE DAY THAT THE WOMAN AT THE MARKET PLACE SPEAKS AS ELOQUENTLY AS THE CEO OF A BANK! By the way... I AM A TECH GUY AND I DON'T USE M-PESA!!!! I dislike it! but that's just me. how many of us are out there? What we are having now is what one writer called "The Idolatry of Efficiency". We are being tempted to sacrifice inclusivity at the altar of efficiency!

2) Transparency vs Secrecy
Remember the system has to be "secret". This means that only I know who I voted for! Secondly We must know for sure who got what. And this determine the operation procedures of a polling station. Technology to do this is out there. VVAT machines e.t.c. but the problem we have is that DEMOCRACY if you really dig through the meaning of the word is coined from greek meaning RULE of MANY! right... "Demos".."Kratos". TECHNOLOGY is actually at it's root a realm of a few! it's a skill. The writting of software is not a thing that everyone can relate to! (this was prominent in social media conversations when John Allan Namu and Moha did that expose! people don't really know what to believe... terms like IP addresses, Operating Systems e.t.c. lost people). We may be given an easy enough user interface but what lurks in the background? Can you tell? What tends to happen is that an elite bunch of tech people tell the rest of the people... HEY THIS SYSTEM WORKS! IT'S SECURE E.T.C. We have to take it at face value. As opposed to the demonstratability of polling day procedures at a polling station. it's self manifest! A parallel story to this is a story I once heard on a minister in Canada being fried for expenses on juice! she drunk a $19 glass of juice and charged it to the state. People went ballistic....why ? they know the price of juice. They can relate to it. There have been many claims on millions of dollars being used to buy Military Jets.... but people don't go ballistic over them coz... who really knows what a jet costs? Or an aircraft carrier! is 2billion too much to spend of an aircraft carrier? or is it too little? is it just right? The populace does not know! Remember the Kanu "formula" thing? people didn't understand it! That's the problem of technology - it requires a bunch of experts to tell you... hey... this thing works and philosophically this puts the demonstratability of whether a system is secure/secret/transparent in the hands of the owners of the skill (few people) instead of the "demos" that own the process.

so basically - elections are not meant to be EFFECIENT! that is where all outsiders get lost - ELECTIONS ARE MEANT TO BE INCLUSIVE, TRANSPARENT AND SECRET AND DEMONSTRATABLY SO TO EVERYONE! that is why the physical ballot paper process is still king.


What if we use the billions used for buying election materials and paying staff to buy mobile phones for every kenyan citizen aged 18yrs+?
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
hardwood
#167 Posted : Friday, April 29, 2016 1:09:55 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay


Wakae ngumu. Their contracts are very clear when their term started and when it ends. Wachape kazi and ignore the barking dogs at the gate.
tycho
#168 Posted : Friday, April 29, 2016 1:38:01 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Swenani wrote:
masukuma wrote:
@maka,
No! it won't work... I am a tech guy and so this is strange coming from me - right? I have heard this from Tech people who implement systems all over the place and when I started this line of work I thought the same.
But I have thought about this over and over and I have possibly 2 big reasons why this will not work. Let me explain, Remember all mordern electoral systems (systems as in process) are implementations of article 21(3) of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states:
Quote:

The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.


1) Inclusivity
here is the deal - Elections unlike any other thing done by people should not have requirements that 99% of the population. 80% of people have mobile phones and almost 90% is not good enough... it has to be DEMONSTRATABLE 100% OF THE PEOPLE. That is why the requirement to vote is so low! in countries like the US the issue of voting with a photo ID is being debated. To vote you should just have been a citizen and a grownup. by the way citizenship is not granted by the state (we have it all wrong here.... it's an illenable right). but yeah.... having a requirement to have a phone disenfranchises people. The best statement I ever heard about the magic of election day is that IT'S THE ONE DAY THAT THE WOMAN AT THE MARKET PLACE SPEAKS AS ELOQUENTLY AS THE CEO OF A BANK! By the way... I AM A TECH GUY AND I DON'T USE M-PESA!!!! I dislike it! but that's just me. how many of us are out there? What we are having now is what one writer called "The Idolatry of Efficiency". We are being tempted to sacrifice inclusivity at the altar of efficiency!

2) Transparency vs Secrecy
Remember the system has to be "secret". This means that only I know who I voted for! Secondly We must know for sure who got what. And this determine the operation procedures of a polling station. Technology to do this is out there. VVAT machines e.t.c. but the problem we have is that DEMOCRACY if you really dig through the meaning of the word is coined from greek meaning RULE of MANY! right... "Demos".."Kratos". TECHNOLOGY is actually at it's root a realm of a few! it's a skill. The writting of software is not a thing that everyone can relate to! (this was prominent in social media conversations when John Allan Namu and Moha did that expose! people don't really know what to believe... terms like IP addresses, Operating Systems e.t.c. lost people). We may be given an easy enough user interface but what lurks in the background? Can you tell? What tends to happen is that an elite bunch of tech people tell the rest of the people... HEY THIS SYSTEM WORKS! IT'S SECURE E.T.C. We have to take it at face value. As opposed to the demonstratability of polling day procedures at a polling station. it's self manifest! A parallel story to this is a story I once heard on a minister in Canada being fried for expenses on juice! she drunk a $19 glass of juice and charged it to the state. People went ballistic....why ? they know the price of juice. They can relate to it. There have been many claims on millions of dollars being used to buy Military Jets.... but people don't go ballistic over them coz... who really knows what a jet costs? Or an aircraft carrier! is 2billion too much to spend of an aircraft carrier? or is it too little? is it just right? The populace does not know! Remember the Kanu "formula" thing? people didn't understand it! That's the problem of technology - it requires a bunch of experts to tell you... hey... this thing works and philosophically this puts the demonstratability of whether a system is secure/secret/transparent in the hands of the owners of the skill (few people) instead of the "demos" that own the process.

so basically - elections are not meant to be EFFECIENT! that is where all outsiders get lost - ELECTIONS ARE MEANT TO BE INCLUSIVE, TRANSPARENT AND SECRET AND DEMONSTRATABLY SO TO EVERYONE! that is why the physical ballot paper process is still king.


What if we use the billions used for buying election materials and paying staff to buy mobile phones for every kenyan citizen aged 18yrs+?


Nothing doing. The problem is the people and how they assert their political will.
hardwood
#169 Posted : Friday, April 29, 2016 2:04:13 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
hardwood wrote:


Wakae ngumu. Their contracts are very clear when their term started and when it ends. Wachape kazi and ignore the barking dogs at the gate.

We, patriotic jubilee youths, will be there very early in the morning to stand guard at iebc to ensure that the officers are not intimidated by hooligans.
tycho
#170 Posted : Friday, April 29, 2016 2:20:57 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
hardwood wrote:
hardwood wrote:


Wakae ngumu. Their contracts are very clear when their term started and when it ends. Wachape kazi and ignore the barking dogs at the gate.

We, patriotic jubilee youths, will be there very early in the morning to stand guard at iebc to ensure that the officers are not intimidated by hooligans.


Some expressions are so funny. Like 'Jubilee youth'. One can imagine that the youth generally, don't think...
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