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Africa to pull out of ICC
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alma
#151 Posted : Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:00:18 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
This topic reminds me of a common case that happens to a few of us over time.

Girl to boyfriend: Niko page
Boyfriend: Nasi uliniambia uko sawa na nili withdraw
Girl: haukotoa haraka
boy: wewe wacha hata akina mike walitoa na wako sawa
girl: lakini ili happen mtoi ni wako. NATAKA HALF!

Choices have consequences.

Kenya joined the ICC willingly
Kenyans killed each other
Kenyans failed to prosecute anyone
Kenya said "don't be vague go the hague"
Kenya even allowed Ocampo to come over and even saw a cheetah

Tulale kwa hii kitanda because we did not withdraw when we had a chance. Mtoto ni wetu si wa AU.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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washiku
#152 Posted : Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:05:07 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
TAZ wrote:
Its interesting to note some of the reasons that were given by the US they didn't want to become a party to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court...Clinton administration claimed the treaty had "significant flaws"

"a number of serious objections to the ICC among them, the lack of adequate checks and balances on powers of the [Court's] prosecutor and judges; the dilution of the U.N. Security Council's authority over international criminal prosecutions; and the lack of any effective mechanism to prevent politicized prosecutions of American service members and officials."



That is ok. At least they realised it. The problem is African countries went through their own choice. I expect their AGs and other legal advisors had already gone through the process and should have advised them well. Coming back to say it was made to humiliate them yet they passed resolutions in their respective parliaments to join the court is purely hypocritical. Worse still is that they have refferred cases there themselves. Or did all those member countries daft enough to be swindled into joining the court?
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McReggae
#153 Posted : Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:21:11 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
@masukuma, so now the ICC came for the Kenyan cases, one these one I was alive and kicking and can very well remember how the cases ended up there!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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masukuma
#154 Posted : Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:23:02 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
McReggae wrote:
@masukuma, so now the ICC came for the Kenyan cases, one these one I was alive and kicking and can very well remember how the cases ended up there!!!!

actually - the truth is we never referred them. who referred the cases?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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masukuma
#155 Posted : Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:29:12 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
alma wrote:
Masukuma maybe you are too young to know but pan-africanism died when some AFRICANS killed Lumumba and some AFRICANS called Nyerere a fool

What you are seeing at the AU is not pan-africanism. Its a bunch of overfed dictators making speeches to make you feel important. It seems you swallowed it hook line and sinker.

As for my kids, I want them to grow knowing that it is important to do good to ALL human beings regardless of colour, race, melanine deficit or ranking in society. That one is judged by the content of their character and not shouting pan-africanism every time a wrong is pointed out. Thus far, despite the seasonal pan-africanist noise maker, I've succeeded.

I find it funny that a few years ago, one Odinga Snr. was labelled enemy of development because he was a perceived communist. Now, the same fellows are saying the west is evil and the chinese are mini-gods.

History is a good teacher and you will do well to read it.

The history of the AU is hot air that is useless to human beings. And you can take that to the bank. But I would like to hear your opinion of one thing that the AU has done to improve the cause of the human race.

Its a fight between the rich and the poor. Once you understand that, then we can talk. In the meantime, I would suggest that you stop believing everything you hear from Mugabe and Museveni. They really cannot be your children's role models.

this is the problem - the way we are doing things what you are aiming at will not workout. the problem with africa is that we don't have commercially viable countries (with the exception of Nigeria, Egypt and to some extent Ethiopia). Everyone else sells their stuff to stay afloat. Our problems are unique... over 3000 languages and dialects spread across the continent (not like the nations of Indonesia who are separated by islands). We need to make this thing work so that you kid can enjoy whatever it is you are doing. The only way to get some respect on this planet is MIGHT! financial and Political Might. you don't need to like the people to respect them.
PS. China was not part of the cold war!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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alma
#156 Posted : Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:30:29 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
masukuma wrote:
McReggae wrote:
@masukuma, so now the ICC came for the Kenyan cases, one these one I was alive and kicking and can very well remember how the cases ended up there!!!!

actually - the truth is we never referred them. who referred the cases?


I can see masukuma is too young to remember

The one simple fact we often intentionally forget on the International Criminal Court issue is that Mr Uhuru Kenyatta and Mr William Ruto are at The Hague-based court by choice.

They asked and planned for it. They complained when Kofi Annan delayed to deliver the Waki envelope to Ocampo.

They mobilised support against a special tribunal created and run in Kenya. They did this against all wise counsel. Further, they ridiculed and scoffed at those who preferred a local process and humiliated the President and Prime Minister when they mobilised Parliament to support a local tribunal. They won the day as attempts to establish a local mechanism were defeated.

You can read the rest at http://elections.nation....8/-/10tq9hf/-/index.html
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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McReggae
#157 Posted : Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:32:23 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
McReggae wrote:
@masukuma, so now the ICC came for the Kenyan cases, one these one I was alive and kicking and can very well remember how the cases ended up there!!!!

actually - the truth is we never referred them. who referred the cases?


When they started the investigations, we were given timelines to form the local tribunal and handle the cases ourselves, we trashed the efforts to do this three times and that's how the cases ended up at the ICC.......during all this time the accused were routing for the same ICC!!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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masukuma
#158 Posted : Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:34:13 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
alma wrote:
Masukuma maybe you are too young to know but pan-africanism died when some AFRICANS killed Lumumba and some AFRICANS called Nyerere a fool

What you are seeing at the AU is not pan-africanism. Its a bunch of overfed dictators making speeches to make you feel important. It seems you swallowed it hook line and sinker.

As for my kids, I want them to grow knowing that it is important to do good to ALL human beings regardless of colour, race, melanine deficit or ranking in society. That one is judged by the content of their character and not shouting pan-africanism every time a wrong is pointed out. Thus far, despite the seasonal pan-africanist noise maker, I've succeeded.

I find it funny that a few years ago, one Odinga Snr. was labelled enemy of development because he was a perceived communist. Now, the same fellows are saying the west is evil and the chinese are mini-gods.

History is a good teacher and you will do well to read it.

The history of the AU is hot air that is useless to human beings. And you can take that to the bank. But I would like to hear your opinion of one thing that the AU has done to improve the cause of the human race.

Its a fight between the rich and the poor. Once you understand that, then we can talk. In the meantime, I would suggest that you stop believing everything you hear from Mugabe and Museveni. They really cannot be your children's role models.

this is the problem - the way we are doing things what you are aiming at will not workout. the problem with africa is that we don't have commercially viable countries (with the exception of Nigeria, Egypt and to some extent Ethiopia). Everyone else sells their stuff to stay afloat. Our problems are unique... over 3000 languages and dialects spread across the continent (not like the nations of Indonesia who are separated by islands). We need to make this thing work so that you kid can enjoy whatever it is you are doing. The only way to get some respect on this planet is MIGHT! financial and Political Might. you don't need to like the people to respect them.
PS. China was not part of the cold war!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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washiku
#159 Posted : Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:38:35 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
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alma
#160 Posted : Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:41:11 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
masukuma I don't know about you, but my kids are currently enjoying the fruits of what I'm doing despite the 3000 dialects.

To gain respect in life all you need to do is be true to yourself and do the right thing. If you need to show might, then you may be a bully. This Africa you keep on yapping about will NEVER have political or financial might as long as Nigerians sell oil but have dry gas stations in Lagos, Ugandans have Museveni and Mugabe is seen as a hero. I don't want to talk about the Kenyan situation as the guests are increasing in this thread.

So on the issue of African Might whatever that may be, I don't think I will be seeing in my lifetime so I'll leave that to my kids. Now let me go to the BBA thread, that is as realistic as wazua is going to get today.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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