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Attack at Westgate
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
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I doubt anything will be done. There were levels of incompetence in dealing with this matter, but given the magnitude, I think everyone did the best they could. The only people I would have issues with is intelligence guys...for a small country like Kenya how could they not have seen this coming? Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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I have gone through the posts but we aint going anywhere till these hard questions are answered. All our doubts will be answered then. The rest is pure noise. simonkabz wrote:Time Lapse. .......hmmmmm, so when our usually reliable n proven CID/RDU/recce coy is unable to contain the so called 5 boys for at least FOUR {4} HOURS straight, what do we call that? I call it a DIFFICULT ENEMY! What does the IGP do from there? Declare the situation is bad n ask for help. Simple!
Pound you have the facts yes, good enough, but stop spinning theories out of them.
1. What TIME did the cowards storm into the mall? What was their: a. Intention? b. Strength? c. End game/exit strategy?
2. What time did Gigiri cops get there, what was their impact on the "5 teenagers"? Why didn't they finish the job?
3. What time did the CID get there, what exactly was their impact on the en? {they are known to be very quick n ruthless}
4. What time did the RDU and the Recce Coy arrive at the mall, n what was their impact on the teenagers?
a. What did they achieve n why didn't they finish the job??? (This is the most important question!)
b. Why didn't they pursue the en to 3rd floor for HOURS?
c. Were they fighting alongside CID or did they take over the battle fully?
d. When did the time lapse occur while they had all that time with the enemy?
e. Did they lose contact with enemy? Why?
f. Why did this particular effort fail, n who declared it failed?
5. WHY was KDF called upon,and BY WHOM?
a. What time did they get there, and what SITUATION did they find?
b. What was their MISSION, and did they accompolish the mission?
c. Was there a proper BATTLE HAND-OVER fm the police to KDF?
d. Was there a time lapse during battle handover if any, how long did it last and from what time to what time?
e. Could they have done it differently given the CIRCUMSTANCES?
6. Could this mission have been accompolished in step 2,3,4, or 5 above? Why was it not done then?
Tujibu hiyo yote kwanza, before bringing in makanga tales of timelapse.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/9/2011 Posts: 786 Location: Mashinani
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Im seeing on twitter that there are still gunshots at Westgate? Anyone confirm this? Peace in our Homeland.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,590
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kamundu wrote:Im seeing on twitter that there are still gunshots at Westgate? Anyone confirm this? timelapse? Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/8/2009 Posts: 975 Location: Nairobi
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Magigi wrote:Security organs knew of attack in advance, claims Nairobi Senator Mike Sonko Nairobi Senator Mike Sonko sensationally told the Senate that security organs and intelligence officers were aware of an impending attack on key areas in Nairobi, including the Westgate Mall.
Sonko claimed that he had helped two women of either Asian or Arabic origin to offer information to police on Al-Shabaab militiamen who were targeting sections of Nairobi. He gave the revelations as the Senate took time off its business to discuss the terror attack on the mall.
He said the women had approached him three months ago with information to the effect that the gang, which had rented a house in Parklands and Westlands, were planning a major attack.
“They mentioned Westgate Mall, Village Market, Parliament and the Kenyatta International Conference Centre as their targets,” claimed Sonko.
He said the two women were initially living with the gang in the rented houses but had escaped after being showed the items that the suspects were preparing for the attack.We were busy busy blocking Raila from accessing VIP lounges when Kenyans of goodwill were providing us with information... @mag You were saying it as it is so nicely and until you came to the point above. Your goggles were to thick to let you make a non partisan conclusion. You will know that you have arrived when money and time are not mutually exclusive "events" in you life!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2008 Posts: 4,449
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simonkabz wrote:I have gone through the posts but we aint going anywhere till these hard questions are answered. All our doubts will be answered then. The rest is pure noise. simonkabz wrote:Time Lapse. .......hmmmmm, so when our usually reliable n proven CID/RDU/recce coy is unable to contain the so called 5 boys for at least FOUR {4} HOURS straight, what do we call that? I call it a DIFFICULT ENEMY! What does the IGP do from there? Declare the situation is bad n ask for help. Simple!
Pound you have the facts yes, good enough, but stop spinning theories out of them.
1. What TIME did the cowards storm into the mall? What was their: a. Intention? b. Strength? c. End game/exit strategy?
2. What time did Gigiri cops get there, what was their impact on the "5 teenagers"? Why didn't they finish the job?
3. What time did the CID get there, what exactly was their impact on the en? {they are known to be very quick n ruthless}
4. What time did the RDU and the Recce Coy arrive at the mall, n what was their impact on the teenagers?
a. What did they achieve n why didn't they finish the job??? (This is the most important question!)
b. Why didn't they pursue the en to 3rd floor for HOURS?
c. Were they fighting alongside CID or did they take over the battle fully?
d. When did the time lapse occur while they had all that time with the enemy?
e. Did they lose contact with enemy? Why?
f. Why did this particular effort fail, n who declared it failed?
5. WHY was KDF called upon,and BY WHOM?
a. What time did they get there, and what SITUATION did they find?
b. What was their MISSION, and did they accompolish the mission?
c. Was there a proper BATTLE HAND-OVER fm the police to KDF?
d. Was there a time lapse during battle handover if any, how long did it last and from what time to what time?
e. Could they have done it differently given the CIRCUMSTANCES?
6. Could this mission have been accompolished in step 2,3,4, or 5 above? Why was it not done then?
Tujibu hiyo yote kwanza, before bringing in makanga tales of timelapse.
You are asking for a level of detail you will never be given and that we shouldn't even worry too much about given prevailing politics between the various security organs. Basics first. Having taken over the operation, KDF command have said nothing (that adds up). 7hrs ago gunshots were apparently still heard. It's in the basics of the nature of an attack like this they APPEAR to be 'failing' us in. We shall await their story though. All in all I salute the gallant efforts of the soldiers who laid down their lives in securing our freedoms. As I posted earlier, having talked to them personally, this is not a situation anyone, trained or otherwise, would ask to be sent into.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/14/2007 Posts: 4,152
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FRM2011 wrote:Much as i want to laud our Kdf boys, has anyone confirmed whether indeed any hostage was evacuated from the time they took over?
The image of the guy whose wife and 2 year old son were trapped and assumed to be among the hostages is haunting me over and over. ( i have a three year old son).
Was it really necessary for the KDF to use explosives as reported in the nation? Or could it be that all hostages had been executed by then?
There is a big difference between the president's speech on sunday and yesterday with regard to the fate of hostages. On sunday he over emphasized the need to rescue them. Yesterday, there was no mention of the hostages.
His excellency the president promised a full accountability. My take is that the truth will give everyone a closure and more importantly, a learning opportunity. What if they were all killed by the gunmen before the explosives were used. I really don't think these gunmen had any intention of releasing hostages. Like i said earlier the people rescued by police were not really being held, most of them were just hiding probably on the lower floors. I think @Simonkabz has raised some really valid questions.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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Much Know wrote:Magigi wrote:
Since the President listened to him with his tyranny of numbers he should listen to him more closely...
Clearly he is wearing political goggles. He has obviously been paid by somebody to make that tweet. That's his job, introducing political angles in everything. Seems he has gone back inside agwambo's pocket from where he emerged in 2012. Really?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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ecstacy wrote:simonkabz wrote:I have gone through the posts but we aint going anywhere till these hard questions are answered. All our doubts will be answered then. The rest is pure noise. simonkabz wrote:Time Lapse. .......hmmmmm, so when our usually reliable n proven CID/RDU/recce coy is unable to contain the so called 5 boys for at least FOUR {4} HOURS straight, what do we call that? I call it a DIFFICULT ENEMY! What does the IGP do from there? Declare the situation is bad n ask for help. Simple!
Pound you have the facts yes, good enough, but stop spinning theories out of them.
1. What TIME did the cowards storm into the mall? What was their: a. Intention? b. Strength? c. End game/exit strategy?
2. What time did Gigiri cops get there, what was their impact on the "5 teenagers"? Why didn't they finish the job?
3. What time did the CID get there, what exactly was their impact on the en? {they are known to be very quick n ruthless}
4. What time did the RDU and the Recce Coy arrive at the mall, n what was their impact on the teenagers?
a. What did they achieve n why didn't they finish the job??? (This is the most important question!)
b. Why didn't they pursue the en to 3rd floor for HOURS?
c. Were they fighting alongside CID or did they take over the battle fully?
d. When did the time lapse occur while they had all that time with the enemy?
e. Did they lose contact with enemy? Why?
f. Why did this particular effort fail, n who declared it failed?
5. WHY was KDF called upon,and BY WHOM?
a. What time did they get there, and what SITUATION did they find?
b. What was their MISSION, and did they accompolish the mission?
c. Was there a proper BATTLE HAND-OVER fm the police to KDF?
d. Was there a time lapse during battle handover if any, how long did it last and from what time to what time?
e. Could they have done it differently given the CIRCUMSTANCES?
6. Could this mission have been accompolished in step 2,3,4, or 5 above? Why was it not done then?
Tujibu hiyo yote kwanza, before bringing in makanga tales of timelapse.
You are asking for a level of detail you will never be given and that we shouldn't even worry too much about given prevailing politics between the various security organs. Basics first. Having taken over the operation, KDF command have said nothing (that adds up). 7hrs ago gunshots were apparently still heard. It's in the basics of the nature of an attack like this they APPEAR to be 'failing' us in. We shall await their story though. All in all I salute the gallant efforts of the soldiers who laid down their lives in securing our freedoms. As I posted earlier, having talked to them personally, this is not a situation anyone, trained or otherwise, would ask to be sent into. Thank you ecstacy. That exactly is my point. If we cant answer any of these questions, we are boxing shadows. Anyone who can at least answer the one in red?? TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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McReggae wrote:Much Know wrote:Magigi wrote:
Since the President listened to him with his tyranny of numbers he should listen to him more closely...
Clearly he is wearing political goggles. He has obviously been paid by somebody to make that tweet. That's his job, introducing political angles in everything. Seems he has gone back inside agwambo's pocket from where he emerged in 2012.  So who WANTS these posts and have paid MN? From my sources, its actually somebody in the police who should resign. Had the NPS done their job the way they were supposed to do, then all this mess would have been avoided. And this country of ours shall continue to suffer due to police incompetence, unprofessionalism, indiscipline, selfishness, lack of patriotsm and general lethargy. They had information from numerous sources that Westgate, among other malls, were targets of impending and imminent attacks. Who to blame? The president? Ole Lenku? The katiba? The IGP? The kenyan culture? Be the judge. TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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