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Yaani Eurobond billions are finished?
Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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It's not just 140b. There were funds borrowed domestically to the tune of 250b and these were not for recurrent expenditure. This translates to loss of 1b plus per day. Where is the money or projects
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/23/2011 Posts: 503
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hardwood wrote:Swenani wrote:jmbada wrote:limanika wrote:@ Banda, raos contention was that most of the money is still stashed abroad so actually what he wanted first is records of the transfers. Why rotich rushed to give list of allocation nobody knows. Ndii on the other hand arguing that what is being purported to be eurobond money was domestic borrowing. So let raos question be answered in full before projects are verified. Am particularly very keen what projects govt spent 400b in single year- 200b from eurobond and 250b from domestic borrowing. And really it's not fault finding. I really want govt to confirm that the money was well spent, I voted for them (hence responsible ) and will pay taxes to repay the loan.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. We all need clear accountability for public funds. My dispute is that the former PM clearly knows how govt. fund raising, allocation, disbursement and explanation of expenditure works. If he was really keen to get to the bottom of this, he should have written to every Ministry asking them to publish the reports tabled in Parliament (since they've already accounted for their expenditures). And also, he, and every other private citizen, need to agree that they will not merely say that reports are doctored simply because these reports prove that nothing went wrong. A lready, Rotich's report is being rubbished (i.e. no outcome is acceptable other than a report stating that money was stolen). He gave the same reports to both houses of Parliament (albeit in greater detail).
Funds allocation is not evidence of expenditure incurred.Read the PFM Act to know the role of National treasury before blindly advising people to write to respective ministries on how funds were spent
Waiguru is on record saying devolution ministry never received any eurobond money despite rotich saying they were given 45B.
She was just being naive just like some wazuans here. Its like asking Equity to give you a list of all loan applicants who were funded by the Helios money.
Even a BrOKeN clock is right twice a day
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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masukuma wrote:My Sniff test reads BULL
$140 billion? kwani ni bangi gani watu wanavuta? let's put it in context...$55 billion is our GDP... i.e. all the money changing hands.. so where is 140Billion almost 3 times ALL THE PRODUCTION OF KENYA or the GDP of some random european country like Hungary... where is this money coming from? who is giving this money? like really? KRA had a target of 1.18 trillion ambao wiliona watashindwa kufikisha and that is roughly 11.8 billion dollars..... $140B is over 12 times their target.... HIZI PESA ZINATOKA WAPI? Like really?
Baba amesema "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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Rollins wrote:hardwood wrote:Swenani wrote:jmbada wrote:limanika wrote:@ Banda, raos contention was that most of the money is still stashed abroad so actually what he wanted first is records of the transfers. Why rotich rushed to give list of allocation nobody knows. Ndii on the other hand arguing that what is being purported to be eurobond money was domestic borrowing. So let raos question be answered in full before projects are verified. Am particularly very keen what projects govt spent 400b in single year- 200b from eurobond and 250b from domestic borrowing. And really it's not fault finding. I really want govt to confirm that the money was well spent, I voted for them (hence responsible ) and will pay taxes to repay the loan.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. We all need clear accountability for public funds. My dispute is that the former PM clearly knows how govt. fund raising, allocation, disbursement and explanation of expenditure works. If he was really keen to get to the bottom of this, he should have written to every Ministry asking them to publish the reports tabled in Parliament (since they've already accounted for their expenditures). And also, he, and every other private citizen, need to agree that they will not merely say that reports are doctored simply because these reports prove that nothing went wrong. A lready, Rotich's report is being rubbished (i.e. no outcome is acceptable other than a report stating that money was stolen). He gave the same reports to both houses of Parliament (albeit in greater detail).
Funds allocation is not evidence of expenditure incurred.Read the PFM Act to know the role of National treasury before blindly advising people to write to respective ministries on how funds were spent
Waiguru is on record saying devolution ministry never received any eurobond money despite rotich saying they were given 45B.
She was just being naive just like some wazuans here. Its like asking Equity to give you a list of all loan applicants who were funded by the Helios money.
Ati the CSs didn't know if money received was eurobond or not  . Before floating, Govt said this thing was meant to fund infrastructure projects, which projects did they have in mind at the time or was this then an empty statement just meant to give the offer a good name?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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let's get terms right.... what currency are we talking about?
Quote:EUROs?
DOLLARs?
KENYA SHILLINGs?
I can see how 140 billion of the latter can be 'stolen' but not the 1st two... why? no one would give you that money! that's like 14% of AFRICAs GDP!! like really? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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masukuma wrote:let's get terms right.... what currency are we talking about?
Quote:EUROs?
DOLLARs?
KENYA SHILLINGs?
I can see how 140 billion of the latter can be 'stolen' but not the 1st two... why? no one would give you that money! that's like 14% of AFRICAs GDP!! like really?
$140BN Ala....The money that came in with some tag written Euro bond. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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wewe wacha it was KES250 billion? KES in bold thats like 2.5 billion USD All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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masukuma wrote:wewe wacha it was KES250 billion? KES in bold thats like 2.5 billion USD
Wazuans are talking about $$ thats why I told them to think about it. Anyway
The amount that was raised was US$ 2BN from which commissions and legal
fees were deducted to arrive at US$ 1,999,052,872.97 which amounts was acknowledged in the Central Bank of Kenya Account held with JP Morgan Chase Bank, New York on 27.06.2014. The Bank Statement from JP Morgan Chase Bank in New York confirms these facts. The Bank Statement and a confirmation in writing have been provided to Public Accounts Committee of the National Assembly and the Senate’s Finance Committee. GOK went back for an additional US$ 750 million tap sale and the bond traded at 5.9-5% net proceeds were $815,684,271 sold at a premium of US$ 65,684,271.00 Tap Sales were credited into Central Bank of Kenya account held with Citibank, New York on 17.12.2014. Hio point5 or 500, 000, 000.00 is what was earned from trading the bond "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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murchr wrote:masukuma wrote:wewe wacha it was KES250 billion? KES in bold thats like 2.5 billion USD
Wazuans are talking about $$ thats why I told them to think about it. Anyway
The amount that was raised was US$ 2BN from which commissions and legal
fees were deducted to arrive at US$ 1,999,052,872.97 which amounts was acknowledged in the Central Bank of Kenya Account held with JP Morgan Chase Bank, New York on 27.06.2014. The Bank Statement from JP Morgan Chase Bank in New York confirms these facts. The Bank Statement and a confirmation in writing have been provided to Public Accounts Committee of the National Assembly and the Senate’s Finance Committee. GOK went back for an additional US$ 750 million tap sale and the bond traded at 5.9-5% net proceeds were $815,684,271 sold at a premium of US$ 65,684,271.00 Tap Sales were credited into Central Bank of Kenya account held with Citibank, New York on 17.12.2014. Hio point5 or 500, 000, 000.00 is what was earned from trading the bond
Now list the infrastructure projects which were financed by the EURO money
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Swenani wrote:murchr wrote:masukuma wrote:wewe wacha it was KES250 billion? KES in bold thats like 2.5 billion USD
Wazuans are talking about $$ thats why I told them to think about it. Anyway
The amount that was raised was US$ 2BN from which commissions and legal
fees were deducted to arrive at US$ 1,999,052,872.97 which amounts was acknowledged in the Central Bank of Kenya Account held with JP Morgan Chase Bank, New York on 27.06.2014. The Bank Statement from JP Morgan Chase Bank in New York confirms these facts. The Bank Statement and a confirmation in writing have been provided to Public Accounts Committee of the National Assembly and the Senate’s Finance Committee. GOK went back for an additional US$ 750 million tap sale and the bond traded at 5.9-5% net proceeds were $815,684,271 sold at a premium of US$ 65,684,271.00 Tap Sales were credited into Central Bank of Kenya account held with Citibank, New York on 17.12.2014. Hio point5 or 500, 000, 000.00 is what was earned from trading the bond
Now list the infrastructure projects which were financed by the EURO money
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
Refer to Rotich's statement on treasury Website and the standard paper of June 9 2014.
Standard 9 Jun 2014 08:55 wrote:A successful sovereign issuance will show the level of enthusiasm foreign investors have for Kenya. Therefore, other foreign investments will trail any successful sovereign bond issuance in the international capital markets. For this reason, it is expected that we will attract more foreign capital flow after the issuance of the Eurobond. We need to work hard to grow the economy and continue to rely on our own internally generated revenues. Getting this money does not mean our current economic challenges will go away. Remember the Sh132 billion (if Kenya issues $1.5 billion), we will raise will all not be new money as almost half of this will be used to pay off existing loans. Whether this will bring some relief to the economy or not will also very much depend on how we use the proceeds of the bond. The bond proceeds is already budgeted for in this coming financial year but what exactly will it finance? Well, I read the preliminary prospectus and it is noted in there that the remainder, after the $600m syndicated loans and interest are paid off, will be used for ‘general budgetary purposes, including the funding of infrastructure. This means the money from that bond will go into the national pot to cover part of the Sh400 billion plus deficit. The deficit comes from new spending plans and old spending plans. So although it is said that we are borrowing to fund new infrastructure, in actual fact we are borrowing to meet the revenue gap, which is made up of many things. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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