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Teachers Strike!!!
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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MADE wrote:segemia wrote:alma wrote:
Firing 268,000 people is not a place this country needs to be. Ask the banks with bank loans these fellows have on their books.
Are you saying that an employer will is not supposed to fire an employee simply because of his (employee's) external liabilities? This is purely fallicious!! ..I think the point is that effects of sacking such a big lot would spiral to other sectors of the economy. Any adverse decision must be consultative enough. E.g ...assume 200,000 teachers have bank loans averaging 50k;the net effect of default (bila interest) would casually sum up to 10B, with Equity the most affected.For this reason, Rotich n Adan Mohammed must be consulted for opinion. The problem with a lot of people on this forum is always arguing to the least common denominator which is my people and my party. You can't fire 260000 people and expect life to be fine and perfect? There shall be pain in each and every sector in this country. One that even free laptops and inviting the media to your house cannot cure. Do a little math. 200000 people were not paid their salaries this month. If they were on average earning 20k, that is 4000000000 ksh out of circulation. This 4 billion did not go to landlords who had to service their mortgages or pay the shylock. Worse, was 4 billion that the banks could not shylock to other kenyans. These landlords with kids in private school are starting to reduce their spend as their revenue reduced. Now repeat this for every person who offers services to teachers. Now multiply this by the number of months they won't be paid, then....multiply and multiply It's called a multiplier effect. This strike is biting you even if all you do is pretend how your child is in public school in wazua yet claim that you watch big brother. It's time for gov't to stop threatening and seriously talk to these 200000 people. Obviously that fake Kuppet doesn't control these teachers. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Ante_Christa wrote:MADE wrote:segemia wrote:alma wrote:
Firing 268,000 people is not a place this country needs to be. Ask the banks with bank loans these fellows have on their books.
Are you saying that an employer will is not supposed to fire an employee simply because of his (employee's) external liabilities? This is purely fallicious!! ..I think the point is that effects of sacking such a big lot would spiral to other sectors of the economy. Any adverse decision must be consultative enough. E.g ...assume 200,000 teachers have bank loans averaging 50k;the net effect of default (bila interest) would casually sum up to 10B, with Equity the most affected.For this reason, Rotich n Adan Mohammed must be consulted for opinion. Also there are at least 268,000 bank accounts. If they run empty, or if their use is minimized, what will the banks charge for them? This is like an octopus. When one arm moves the whole organism moves. Hey guys watu wanasema bankers were sacked in the 80s/90s and it worked....nobody wants to say how many they were!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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Last I checked, 1. gava wants to talk, wanati wamedinda. 2.Wanati won't call off strike. 3.Cord has joined them, n we all know how politics involving cord go. Sack them, reemploy them on own terms. Hiyo kelele ya banks n idle accounts will just be temporary. Sack them bila huruma. TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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simonkabz wrote:Last I checked,
1. gava wants to talk, wanati wamedinda.
2.Wanati won't call off strike.
3.Cord has joined them, n we all know how politics involving cord go.
Sack them, reemploy them on own terms. Hiyo kelele ya banks n idle accounts will just be temporary. Sack them bila huruma. C i thot they,ve bin sacked...the thing is they met but did not agree on what the govt was offering.... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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maka wrote:simonkabz wrote:Last I checked,
1. gava wants to talk, wanati wamedinda.
2.Wanati won't call off strike.
3.Cord has joined them, n we all know how politics involving cord go.
Sack them, reemploy them on own terms. Hiyo kelele ya banks n idle accounts will just be temporary. Sack them bila huruma. C i thot they,ve bin sacked...the thing is they met but did not agree on what the govt was offering.... Gava moved a bit. They refused to cede an inch. FUTA! TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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I have relatives (very close) in the education fraternity but this is becoming ridiculous. if they were putting the same energy to educate the children, then we would surely not need private schools. When some of us went to school, the government school were much better than what any private provider would afford to give. These days???? hata mimi as it is now, no love lost if these guys were sacked, and given conditions
1. told anyone who wants to be employed reports to school on a certain day,
2. employed at different terms and has to sign a performance contract, if they do not show up,
3.absorb the whole lot of graduates who are eagerly waiting for those jobs and
4.life goes on.
what pains most is that the children of the poor people are the ones at home yet, these teachers dont care if children missed school because their own children are in private schools where "teachers" break their backs to give better education to the children with much lesser pay than what these government teachers are paid!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/18/2008 Posts: 3,434 Location: Kerugoya
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Wendz wrote:I have relatives (very close) in the education fraternity but this is becoming ridiculous. if they were putting the same energy to educate the children, then we would surely not need private schools. When some of us went to school, the government school were much better than what any private provider would afford to give. These days???? hata mimi as it is now, no love lost if these guys were sacked, and given conditions
1. told anyone who wants to be employed reports to school on a certain day,
2. employed at different terms and has to sign a performance contract, if they do not show up,
3.absorb the whole lot of graduates who are eagerly waiting for those jobs and
4.life goes on.
what pains most is that the children of the poor people are the ones at home yet, these teachers dont care if children missed school because their own children are in private schools where "teachers" break their backs to give better education to the children with much lesser pay than what these government teachers are paid! Ma'am, I am profoundly disappointed that you portend the incoming new teachers will be any different from the current lot. To paraphase Hon. Duale, Kenians are thieves, greedy and pigs et al. The new teachers will most certainly form their own version of Nati and we will be back to square one in no time at all. Ponder that.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/15/2012 Posts: 1,110
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A teacher in the village school walks to and from school everyday (it's a short walking distance). Isn't ironical this teacher is on strike demanding commuter allowance?
Secondly, the teacher is under no obligation to complete the school syllabus. Whether the syllabus is complete or not, the teacher gets his/her dues. The same teacher will ask for tuition classes (paid by the parents) during the holidays under the guise of completing the syllabus.
Again, this teacher works for 9 months in a year, and still gets his/her salary during the holidays.
Don't forget that some of these teachers in the village schools always report to work late and can skip work anytime without any firm reason because the headteacher won't report them. Productivity issues aside, the demand for a salary increase still continues.
Common guys, lets stop this madness! Strong labour unions are every employer's nightmare. Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/18/2008 Posts: 3,434 Location: Kerugoya
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InnovateGuy wrote:A teacher in the village school walks to and from school everyday (it's a short walking distance). Isn't ironical this teacher is on strike demanding commuter allowance?
You make me sick!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/27/2007 Posts: 2,768
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aemathenge wrote:Wendz wrote:I have relatives (very close) in the education fraternity but this is becoming ridiculous. if they were putting the same energy to educate the children, then we would surely not need private schools. When some of us went to school, the government school were much better than what any private provider would afford to give. These days???? hata mimi as it is now, no love lost if these guys were sacked, and given conditions
1. told anyone who wants to be employed reports to school on a certain day,
2. employed at different terms and has to sign a performance contract, if they do not show up,
3.absorb the whole lot of graduates who are eagerly waiting for those jobs and
4.life goes on.
what pains most is that the children of the poor people are the ones at home yet, these teachers dont care if children missed school because their own children are in private schools where "teachers" break their backs to give better education to the children with much lesser pay than what these government teachers are paid! Ma'am, I am profoundly disappointed that you portend the incoming new teachers will be any different from the current lot. To paraphase Hon. Duale, Kenians are thieves, greedy and pigs et al. The new teachers will most certainly form their own version of Nati and we will be back to square one in no time at all. Ponder that. @Wendz is right...revising the terms of service by the government of the day to ensure that nothing like these strikes happens is as easy as 123. How? Performance contracts introduction...This would haunt the non-performing lot... I believe any salary increments should also be measured or pegged to the performance of school children in various subjects...Otherwise it does not make any sense to have a highly paid workforce with very little output!! ...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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Let us not confuse issues here. The issue is not whether or not a teacher deserves commutter allowance or not. Or if he goes to class drunk, or if you feel that you wished you had their job so you can work less hours. The issue is whether or not the Gov't of Kenya has a signed contract with said teacher's union. If it does, then it has no choice but to pay up. Otherwise, it will send signals to the rest of the world that the Kenyan gov't doesn't pay its bills. If you say that this was a bad deal, please inform us on why you think the Anglo-leasing deal is better since the Gov't of Kenya is still paying for it. As to how much, when, why teachers are being given so much, I would suggest you do yourself a favour and join a better union. The Mpigs have one and it seems the teachers have one too. So the person I will listen to is the one who can explain to me why a gov't should be taken seriously when it refuses to honour a contract it signed. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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alma wrote:Let us not confuse issues here.
The issue is not whether or not a teacher deserves commutter allowance or not. Or if he goes to class drunk, or if you feel that you wished you had their job so you can work less hours.
The issue is whether or not the Gov't of Kenya has a signed contract with said teacher's union.
If it does, then it has no choice but to pay up. Otherwise, it will send signals to the rest of the world that the Kenyan gov't doesn't pay its bills.
If you say that this was a bad deal, please inform us on why you think the Anglo-leasing deal is better since the Gov't of Kenya is still paying for it.
As to how much, when, why teachers are being given so much, I would suggest you do yourself a favour and join a better union.
The Mpigs have one and it seems the teachers have one too.
So the person I will listen to is the one who can explain to me why a gov't should be taken seriously when it refuses to honour a contract it signed. The government is not refusing to pay. it is only asking for time. and well, i know it has asked for time many more times but this is a new government.... plus, it has a valid point. if you pay increased house allowance for teachers, what do you then do with the rest of the civil servant. From what i know, it has agreed to pay the other allowances. Plus, above all, can these teachers have performance contracts and can the future salary be based on performance and not strikes and negotiated agreements? This is the only way we can have an effective education system. You do not perform, you pave way for the next teacher on line. Sorry, but it happens to all of us.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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aemathenge wrote:Wendz wrote:I have relatives (very close) in the education fraternity but this is becoming ridiculous. if they were putting the same energy to educate the children, then we would surely not need private schools. When some of us went to school, the government school were much better than what any private provider would afford to give. These days???? hata mimi as it is now, no love lost if these guys were sacked, and given conditions
1. told anyone who wants to be employed reports to school on a certain day,
2. employed at different terms and has to sign a performance contract, if they do not show up,
3.absorb the whole lot of graduates who are eagerly waiting for those jobs and
4.life goes on.
what pains most is that the children of the poor people are the ones at home yet, these teachers dont care if children missed school because their own children are in private schools where "teachers" break their backs to give better education to the children with much lesser pay than what these government teachers are paid! Ma'am, I am profoundly disappointed that you portend the incoming new teachers will be any different from the current lot. To paraphase Hon. Duale, Kenians are thieves, greedy and pigs et al. The new teachers will most certainly form their own version of Nati and we will be back to square one in no time at all. Ponder that. I wouldn't have a problem with greedy, thievery, piggery kenyan teachers as long as there is performance. They are actually the reason i have to pay so much in terms of educating my children and that's why i am not happy with them!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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@Wendz I agree with you completely that performance contracts should be part of hiring anyone working on public pay. But I'm going to come back again to the nitty gritty of the problem. There is a signed contract. In fact, the first thing this gov't did was pretend that it didn't exist. Next it went to threats, now further threats. saying in public that you are negotiating while serving court orders during meetings is not negotiating but intimidation. Saying you will fire 260000 people including issuing an advert is not negotiating it is intimidation. This gov't has SAID it is negotiating BUT ACTUALLY intimidated. There are a few things that can go wrong when a gov't increases the pay for one lot of people. Obviously when they were making midnight deals with Mpigs as they talked tough on TV, they forgot other people were watching. The gov't can talk tough all it wants but the fact is, very bad things happen to gov't's that refuse to pay their debt. This issue won't turn out well unless they bring in the religious leaders. Teachers aren't and gov't isn't. I blame gov't because they are supposed to lead, not issue road side pronouncements ala Moi. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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The roads are very clear and a joy to drive on to work, is there anyone in govt who has noticed this. Can they enforce public schools zoning so children don't have to cross one end of town to the other to attend a preffered public school, this will certainly reduce traffic jams by a good percentage. what is the possible loss to the economy, must be huge "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/31/2013 Posts: 109
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Has Atwoli spoken anything over this maneno? As if it will matter anyway!
About performance contracts, who, in any organization (a) does the donkey work and (b) who gets the most comfortable pay?
The ones doing the donkey work (and inhaling chalk while at it) gets the least pay and vice versa.
Its unfortunate they are the most numerous so any increment they ask makes huge the overall budget.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/8/2013 Posts: 4,068 Location: At Large.
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Wendz wrote:alma wrote:Let us not confuse issues here.
The issue is not whether or not a teacher deserves commutter allowance or not. Or if he goes to class drunk, or if you feel that you wished you had their job so you can work less hours.
The issue is whether or not the Gov't of Kenya has a signed contract with said teacher's union.
If it does, then it has no choice but to pay up. Otherwise, it will send signals to the rest of the world that the Kenyan gov't doesn't pay its bills.
If you say that this was a bad deal, please inform us on why you think the Anglo-leasing deal is better since the Gov't of Kenya is still paying for it.
As to how much, when, why teachers are being given so much, I would suggest you do yourself a favour and join a better union.
The Mpigs have one and it seems the teachers have one too.
So the person I will listen to is the one who can explain to me why a gov't should be taken seriously when it refuses to honour a contract it signed. The government is not refusing to pay. it is only asking for time. and well, i know it has asked for time many more times but this is a new government.... plus, it has a valid point. if you pay increased house allowance for teachers, what do you then do with the rest of the civil servant. From what i know, it has agreed to pay the other allowances. Plus, above all, can these teachers have performance contracts and can the future salary be based on performance and not strikes and negotiated agreements? This is the only way we can have an effective education system. You do not perform, you pave way for the next teacher on line. Sorry, but it happens to all of us. Fully support you madam. This particular strike unlike others before was highly uncalled for. It has made the teachers look quite greedy . They have removed the Noble Profession tag from teachers.Back then teachers taught with passion even with small pay.In return as society we gave them respect and assisted modt of their causes.eg medical, kupeleka Watoto ngambo for further education etc. Its a sad situation.The aftermath of this will be 1.some dropouts due to teenage pregnancy and phangi. 2.If re-employed on new terms our kids shall be the target of their frustration. Arrrrrrrrrrrgh....I miss Adongo....atleast he knew when to stop. Love is beautiful and so are those who share it.With Love, Marriage is an amazing event in ones life time, the foundation of joy, happiness and success.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/19/2012 Posts: 552
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Wendz wrote:alma wrote:Let us not confuse issues here.
The issue is not whether or not a teacher deserves commutter allowance or not. Or if he goes to class drunk, or if you feel that you wished you had their job so you can work less hours.
The issue is whether or not the Gov't of Kenya has a signed contract with said teacher's union.
If it does, then it has no choice but to pay up. Otherwise, it will send signals to the rest of the world that the Kenyan gov't doesn't pay its bills.
If you say that this was a bad deal, please inform us on why you think the Anglo-leasing deal is better since the Gov't of Kenya is still paying for it.
As to how much, when, why teachers are being given so much, I would suggest you do yourself a favour and join a better union.
The Mpigs have one and it seems the teachers have one too.
So the person I will listen to is the one who can explain to me why a gov't should be taken seriously when it refuses to honour a contract it signed. The government is not refusing to pay. it is only asking for time. and well, i know it has asked for time many more times but this is a new government.... plus, it has a valid point. if you pay increased house allowance for teachers, what do you then do with the rest of the civil servant. From what i know, it has agreed to pay the other allowances. Plus, above all, can these teachers have performance contracts and can the future salary be based on performance and not strikes and negotiated agreements? This is the only way we can have an effective education system. You do not perform, you pave way for the next teacher on line. Sorry, but it happens to all of us. my observation has been that Unions, have never been comfortable with having their members on performance contracts. You mention performance contracts and they are on a war path. Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.... Leo Buscaglia
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/1/2009 Posts: 1,884
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maka wrote:simonkabz wrote:Last I checked,
1. gava wants to talk, wanati wamedinda.
2.Wanati won't call off strike.
3.Cord has joined them, n we all know how politics involving cord go.
Sack them, reemploy them on own terms. Hiyo kelele ya banks n idle accounts will just be temporary. Sack them bila huruma. C i thot they,ve bin sacked...the thing is they met but did not agree on what the govt was offering.... maka, any idea how much it would cost the tsc to fire all the teachers? assuming that they use the industrial court order to fire them...coz I think they would still be entitled to some due.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/2/2006 Posts: 1,206 Location: Nairobi
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Finally wamelipwa June salary. Formally employed people often live their employers' dream & forget about their own.
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