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tony stark		#1281 Posted : Thursday, September 02, 2021 10:35:17 PM
Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/8/2008 Posts: 947		Which bRITAM is this you are talking about. The same britam whose Britam Wealth Management Fund LLP just wrote of 5 billion in loses. This "pain" is being felt by everyone in different ways. Some just had it written off in their socks and they had no choice of wait for recovery. muganda wrote: tony stark wrote: muganda wrote: Pain caused needs to be shared. Can't believe the Cytonnaires have not yet replaced Cytonn as the fund manager. Unless Cytonn revenue is directly affected, pain is not aligned. But how many Cytonnaires are there in the CHYS?? Probably less than 5000. But the largest capital is mainly held by a few so less than 100 people probably held by 60-80% of the fund. The Cytonn contract is actually very solid and this risk is in the contract. The few cytonnaires who went to court just wasted money .... all this is in the contract. There is noise and signal. Noise is PK and wazua noisemakers. The signal is that underlying assest actually exist and the people who want to convert funds to property can actually do that. The challenge is that the noisemakers don't have enough to change their funds to property. If you have the funds, do you really want an apartment in Alma? I would rather roll the dice on compounding of my investment and see where it lands me when the economy recovers than convert it to an apartment that I have to manage. Waste of time. Separate the noise from the signal and you will see why the cytonnaires are not making noise. I repeat ... Pain caused needs to be shared Britam knew this hence the capitulation by Dande when he was near police custoday. The title deeds reappeared. Collective Investment Schemes appoint custodians and licensed fund managers. If CMA or investors were inviting bids from competing fund managers to takeover the defaulting schemes, money would begin to reappear. Finally, it is dishonest for Cytonn to fail in sale of built 'underlying assets' while foisting them on trapped 'noisemakers' at inflated prices - it reeks of Snake Oiler behaviour
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rwitre		#1282 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2021 12:34:31 PM
Rank: Member Joined: 3/8/2018 Posts: 507 Location: Nairobi		The back and forth on this thread Cytonn HYS clients: You invested in a high risk fund that pumped capital into real estate, and the market is now largely illiquid (Talk to every other real estate developer and property auctioneer and see how "well" they are fairing) Cytonn bashers: Cherry picking on one firm and saying the sky is falling since one of its products is faltering? Must be nice running your lucrative business. Legal: CMA and Cytonn court debacles. CMA hands are largely tied because technically Cytonn is following its contract terms. PR: Cytonn aggressively pushed HYS, and overlaying terms with the regulated Cytonn HYF (High Yield Fund) could easily mislead investors. Investors: Every investment has its risks. Do your research before jumping in. There's a reason why riskier funds come with higher rates. Even countries can default on sovereign debt. My advice: If you have money in HYS, either write it off, or wait it out. I hear there is an option to top up and buy one of the properties for the anxious and moneyed.
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My 2 cents		#1283 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2021 1:37:04 PM
Rank: Veteran Joined: 6/2/2010 Posts: 1,089		Only one of the positions is correct. Cytonn is a dud or it isn't. Only time will tell. But the odds favour one side. Most us know which side is likely correct.
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muganda		#1284 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2021 3:01:41 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,907		rwitre wrote: The back and forth on this thread My advice: If you have money in HYS, either write it off, or wait it out. I hear there is an option to top up and buy one of the properties for the anxious and moneyed. My advice: Enough with everyone playing defense. CMA courtesy of Treasury has donned on new powers to fight fraud in CIS https://www.businessdail...raud-in-schemes-3534742 Investors, with CMA help, need to fire Cytonn as fund manager - period! Pain caused needs to be shared
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poundfoolish		#1285 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2021 5:52:33 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi		Mister.. If you are below 40 years, please allow me to say this.. You are very wise beyond your years.. I am also tempted to say, The other group has nothing in between their ears... or just plain malicious and ignorant. rwitre wrote: The back and forth on this thread Cytonn HYS clients: You invested in a high risk fund that pumped capital into real estate, and the market is now largely illiquid (Talk to every other real estate developer and property auctioneer and see how "well" they are fairing) Cytonn bashers: Cherry picking on one firm and saying the sky is falling since one of its products is faltering? Must be nice running your lucrative business. Legal: CMA and Cytonn court debacles. CMA hands are largely tied because technically Cytonn is following its contract terms. PR: Cytonn aggressively pushed HYS, and overlaying terms with the regulated Cytonn HYF (High Yield Fund) could easily mislead investors. Investors: Every investment has its risks. Do your research before jumping in. There's a reason why riskier funds come with higher rates. Even countries can default on sovereign debt. My advice: If you have money in HYS, either write it off, or wait it out. I hear there is an option to top up and buy one of the properties for the anxious and moneyed.
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poundfoolish		#1286 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2021 5:57:12 PM
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi		almost 10B... not 5B and it is not like the hole has stopped growing. Unlike Cytonn that has taken the bold move to halt any more bleeding in the Real Estate venture,which it owns by the way.. other fund managers, whi have invested in other Real Estate developers, through their unreglulated products are relying on their other businesses lines to fill the gaps. People will know they dont know. tony stark wrote: Which bRITAM is this you are talking about. The same britam whose Britam Wealth Management Fund LLP just wrote of 5 billion in loses. This "pain" is being felt by everyone in different ways. Some just had it written off in their socks and they had no choice of wait for recovery. muganda wrote: tony stark wrote: muganda wrote: Pain caused needs to be shared. Can't believe the Cytonnaires have not yet replaced Cytonn as the fund manager. Unless Cytonn revenue is directly affected, pain is not aligned. But how many Cytonnaires are there in the CHYS?? Probably less than 5000. But the largest capital is mainly held by a few so less than 100 people probably held by 60-80% of the fund. The Cytonn contract is actually very solid and this risk is in the contract. The few cytonnaires who went to court just wasted money .... all this is in the contract. There is noise and signal. Noise is PK and wazua noisemakers. The signal is that underlying assest actually exist and the people who want to convert funds to property can actually do that. The challenge is that the noisemakers don't have enough to change their funds to property. If you have the funds, do you really want an apartment in Alma? I would rather roll the dice on compounding of my investment and see where it lands me when the economy recovers than convert it to an apartment that I have to manage. Waste of time. Separate the noise from the signal and you will see why the cytonnaires are not making noise. I repeat ... Pain caused needs to be shared Britam knew this hence the capitulation by Dande when he was near police custoday. The title deeds reappeared. Collective Investment Schemes appoint custodians and licensed fund managers. If CMA or investors were inviting bids from competing fund managers to takeover the defaulting schemes, money would begin to reappear. Finally, it is dishonest for Cytonn to fail in sale of built 'underlying assets' while foisting them on trapped 'noisemakers' at inflated prices - it reeks of Snake Oiler behaviour
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My 2 cents		#1287 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2021 6:54:16 PM
Rank: Veteran Joined: 6/2/2010 Posts: 1,089		Those of you in this forum who are not in Cytonn, just be keenly aware that those that are already inside Cytonn will want to sell it to you aggresively, it is the only way they stand a chance to get out themselves. Don't fall for it.
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VituVingiSana		#1288 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2021 7:38:46 PM
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,346 Location: Nairobi		poundfoolish wrote: My 2 cents wrote: Cytonn was like a religion, I tried to talk a friend out of it 4 years ago and did not make any progress. You have got to understand that those who have already invested need for the scheme to keep going for them to stand a good chance of getting out. Cytonn is only as good as more 'investors' join, if that stops everyone who is already in loses. Thats why the animosity towards paulkimani. He was jeopardising some peoples investment in Cytonn. Nonsense!!! Cytonn needs to keep selling houses to keep going and giving returns. Do you know how the other property developers are fairing? Centum Real Estate - the real estate arm of Centum - was profitable in 2020 (COVID) and they said they kept selling during COVID and also collected money. We now await the 1H22 results in 3 months time. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - *to paraphrase Warren Buffett*
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VituVingiSana		#1289 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2021 7:45:46 PM
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,346 Location: Nairobi		tony stark wrote: muganda wrote: Pain caused needs to be shared. Can't believe the Cytonnaires have not yet replaced Cytonn as the fund manager. Unless Cytonn revenue is directly affected, pain is not aligned. But how many Cytonnaires are there in the CHYS?? Probably less than 5000. But the largest capital is mainly held by a few so less than 100 people probably held by 60-80% of the fund. The Cytonn contract is actually very solid and this risk is in the contract. The few cytonnaires who went to court just wasted money .... all this is in the contract. There is noise and signal. Noise is PK and wazua noisemakers. The signal is that underlying assest actually exist and the people who want to convert funds to property can actually do that. The challenge is that the noisemakers don't have enough to change their funds to property. If you have the funds, do you really want an apartment in Alma? I would rather roll the dice on compounding of my investment and see where it lands me when the economy recovers than convert it to an apartment that I have to manage. Waste of time. Separate the noise from the signal and you will see why the cytonnaires are not making noise. Some Wazuans say even though the Alma development does look good the price for the Alma units is quite high vs comparable units in the area. I agree that for some it may make more sense to take the units regardless of the pricing but for others who have to top-up a large enough sum, it doesn't make sense. The real test is whether non-Cytonnaires are buying units. They have no money stuck in Cytonn so they would be unbiased and looking for value. BTW, how does it work with such developments where there are multiple parties on the selling side? Will the banks give up title to an apartment they have a charge on if they don't get the cash? E.g. If I have 10mn in CHYS and Cytonn agrees to sell me a unit for 10mn, how does the bank/lender benefit? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - *to paraphrase Warren Buffett*
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VituVingiSana		#1290 Posted : Friday, September 03, 2021 7:47:19 PM
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,346 Location: Nairobi		mv_ufanisi wrote: tony stark wrote: poundfoolish wrote: My 2 cents wrote: “Chema chajiuza, kibaya chajitembeza – A good thing sells, a bad thing advertises.” An old age adage.The adverstising was very aggressive. Selling dreams, smokes and mirrors. Like Coca Cola, Safaricom, Equity and so on and so forth? Poundfoolish people don't realize they are pawns in the rule of 7 for marketing. But I agree with my 2 cents in that if he wasn't being convinced they the cytonn ads then they probably need to change their marketing strategy because it didn't seem to land with My2 cents. You know My 2 cents is the most important customer Cytonn can have! haha, Cytonn is NO Coca Cola, Safaricom, Equity and so on and so forth. and a Cytonnaire is No millionaire or billionaire or trillionaire. a Cytonnaire is a person who can't trace their money after expecting 18% interest rates. You are not a nice person! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - *to paraphrase Warren Buffett*
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