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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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FRM2011 wrote:Baby pendo is no more.
I know this will bring joy to a good number of wazuans.
Feel free to pop the champagne. While there's a potential for evil in everyone, there's also potential for good in all of us. So it may be unhelpful to push a guilt tripping agenda on us...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/25/2011 Posts: 2,103 Location: Nrb
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tycho wrote:Amores wrote:tycho wrote:All or most behavior has sufficient explanation, regardless as to whether the behavior is moral or immoral. So even if Raila is lying or cooking up issues, there must be a sufficient explanation for his behavior, and this behavior can be backed up by evidence from his own and NASA's actions.
Why would we prefer to talk and talk and castigate instead of investigating and proving in a competent and efficient manner?
In my opinion the costs of not doing so far outweigh the benefits of a questionable legitimacy. So why won't he go to court and present the evidence?In my opinion,ODM can help shed light,as long as they run away from the court process,we will conclude they are just theatrics. How can it be investigated based on rumors and fake news? Whatever reasons ODM or NASA may have for not going to court, the state has the means and obligation to take up the case, follow up with investigations and offer direction. Sticking to the opinion that the victims ought to go to court and present evidence is creating an unneeded sense of being besieged. And that's counter productive. Really? Ok.... I am happy
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Amores wrote:tycho wrote:Amores wrote:tycho wrote:All or most behavior has sufficient explanation, regardless as to whether the behavior is moral or immoral. So even if Raila is lying or cooking up issues, there must be a sufficient explanation for his behavior, and this behavior can be backed up by evidence from his own and NASA's actions.
Why would we prefer to talk and talk and castigate instead of investigating and proving in a competent and efficient manner?
In my opinion the costs of not doing so far outweigh the benefits of a questionable legitimacy. So why won't he go to court and present the evidence?In my opinion,ODM can help shed light,as long as they run away from the court process,we will conclude they are just theatrics. How can it be investigated based on rumors and fake news? Whatever reasons ODM or NASA may have for not going to court, the state has the means and obligation to take up the case, follow up with investigations and offer direction. Sticking to the opinion that the victims ought to go to court and present evidence is creating an unneeded sense of being besieged. And that's counter productive. Really? Ok.... Yes. Really. In the first place why does the state take up criminal cases? If NASA lodges a petition in court, what kind of case would it institute? How would the judicial system respond? And how different would it be if the courts compelled NASA to give evidence in the pursuit of a criminal investigation/case?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/25/2011 Posts: 2,103 Location: Nrb
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tycho wrote:Amores wrote:tycho wrote:Amores wrote:tycho wrote:All or most behavior has sufficient explanation, regardless as to whether the behavior is moral or immoral. So even if Raila is lying or cooking up issues, there must be a sufficient explanation for his behavior, and this behavior can be backed up by evidence from his own and NASA's actions.
Why would we prefer to talk and talk and castigate instead of investigating and proving in a competent and efficient manner?
In my opinion the costs of not doing so far outweigh the benefits of a questionable legitimacy. So why won't he go to court and present the evidence?In my opinion,ODM can help shed light,as long as they run away from the court process,we will conclude they are just theatrics. How can it be investigated based on rumors and fake news? Whatever reasons ODM or NASA may have for not going to court, the state has the means and obligation to take up the case, follow up with investigations and offer direction. Sticking to the opinion that the victims ought to go to court and present evidence is creating an unneeded sense of being besieged. And that's counter productive. Really? Ok.... Yes. Really. In the first place why does the state take up criminal cases? If NASA lodges a petition in court, what kind of case would it institute? How would the judicial system respond? And how different would it be if the courts compelled NASA to give evidence in the pursuit of a criminal investigation/case? Why would the state be interested in pursuing it? Unless you say IEBC as an independent body to pursue it in order for IEBC to satisfy it conducted a free and fair poll. The state cannot compell ODM (I insist it's an ODM affair),they said they will not go court,I doubt they would go to court even if compelled by law. So we will be subjected to chasing the wind inorder to ascertain the obvious -that they lost bigly @Tycho,believe me,if these geezers had evidence,they would not subjecting Kenyans to "big announcements",they would be in court I am happy
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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FRM2011 wrote:Baby pendo is no more.
I know this will bring joy to a good number of wazuans.
Feel free to pop the champagne. What is happening to you boss. Why would anyone celebrate the death of a kid? It's dangerous what politics does to us honestly.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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FRM2011 wrote:Baby pendo is no more.
I know this will bring joy to a good number of wazuans.
Feel free to pop the champagne. It's very unfortunate that you bring the baby's name into this. Did the baby vote? But if you want to know who's sipping champagne, just look for who is capitalizing the most out of this sad situation. But you should urge your friends to keep peace even Mdvd today said the matter is too complex for NASA to comprehend so I don't get how a kawaida mwananchi understands it so well to go and face GSU on the streets.
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Amores wrote:tycho wrote:Amores wrote:tycho wrote:Amores wrote:tycho wrote:All or most behavior has sufficient explanation, regardless as to whether the behavior is moral or immoral. So even if Raila is lying or cooking up issues, there must be a sufficient explanation for his behavior, and this behavior can be backed up by evidence from his own and NASA's actions.
Why would we prefer to talk and talk and castigate instead of investigating and proving in a competent and efficient manner?
In my opinion the costs of not doing so far outweigh the benefits of a questionable legitimacy. So why won't he go to court and present the evidence?In my opinion,ODM can help shed light,as long as they run away from the court process,we will conclude they are just theatrics. How can it be investigated based on rumors and fake news? Whatever reasons ODM or NASA may have for not going to court, the state has the means and obligation to take up the case, follow up with investigations and offer direction. Sticking to the opinion that the victims ought to go to court and present evidence is creating an unneeded sense of being besieged. And that's counter productive. Really? Ok.... Yes. Really. In the first place why does the state take up criminal cases? If NASA lodges a petition in court, what kind of case would it institute? How would the judicial system respond? And how different would it be if the courts compelled NASA to give evidence in the pursuit of a criminal investigation/case? Why would the state be interested in pursuing it? Unless you say IEBC as an independent body to pursue it in order for IEBC to satisfy it conducted a free and fair poll. The state cannot compell ODM (I insist it's an ODM affair),they said they will not go court,I doubt they would go to court even if compelled by law. So we will be subjected to chasing the wind inorder to ascertain the obvious -that they lost bigly @Tycho,believe me,if these geezers had evidence,they would not subjecting Kenyans to "big announcements",they would be in court 1. The state would be interested if the facts of the case point to criminal offense(s) 2. We've already shown the possibility of a reasonable case lacking evidence and calling for investigations 3. There are many cases that fail to go to court even with evidence - eg. when faith in judicial processes are in doubt 4. In the course of a criminal case/investigation witnesses can be compelled to testify This is a national security issue and I believe the state will have more to lose if it loses control and fails to convince the citizenry of its fairness and capacities for fairness.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/8/2008 Posts: 1,575
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The idea of a 'police investigation' appears good. But remember NASA principal one already implicated them in the 'vote stealing plot'. Imported investigators and 'judges' may be required. Timelines in the constitution do not favour this route either. What to do? I care!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2009 Posts: 1,049
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washiku wrote:FRM2011 wrote:Baby pendo is no more.
I know this will bring joy to a good number of wazuans.
Feel free to pop the champagne. What is happening to you boss. Why would anyone celebrate the death of a kid? It's dangerous what politics does to us honestly. He's lost it completely! Doing all else but challenging the one who holds the key to stop all these unnecessary confrontations which inevitably result in deaths and injuries. Tomorrow the "revered enigma" will probably call for another round of confrontations knowing all too well that it will likely result in some deaths and injuries. Just as absolute power corrupts leaders, so does absolute fanaticism blind the people from logic
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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thuks wrote:The idea of a 'police investigation' appears good. But remember NASA principal one already implicated them in the 'vote stealing plot'. Imported investigators and 'judges' may be required. Timelines in the constitution do not favour this route either. What to do? 1. The standards of proof are not so difficult to understand and implement 2. NASA allegations against the investigating body need to be counteracted if at all citizens are to retain confidence in our institutions 3. The constitution of the investigating body may be of such a nature that NASA interests are well taken care of So we don't have to struggle with time lines if there's goodwill from all sides.
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