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Elliott Wave Analysis Of The NSE 20
Boris Boyka
#1041 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2015 11:57:43 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/15/2013
Posts: 1,977
Location: Here
Spikes wrote:
Is the market bull picking up or a deceptive social mood primed for a crash next week?

Eeeish! You're thinking of a bull in such times???Shame on you Shame on you Bear is with us, it's winter. Bulls are far far away.
Everybody STEALS, a THIEF is one who's CAUGHT stealing something of LITTLE VALUE. !!!
hisah
#1042 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2015 3:09:02 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
@VVS- the NSE20 historical data is up to 1997. From this 18yr data the chart pattern is as shown below.

@mnandii, SPT, sparkly the trendline break down is worse than I thought!!! There is a long term trendline (14yr) from the 2002 low in August which was the pin off for the Kibaki bull. This trendline has also been broken by the 2015 selloff! We may need to start preparing for a longer bear period! May be for 2 - 3yrs of sideways market action as the market tries to find a floor. A lot of wanjikus will flee from the investor forum towards club SK.

2 - 3yrs of accumulation will be paradise for value investors smile @aguy, VVS will your wallets be able to buy continuously for 3yrs smile

Strong support lies around 3000 - 3300 level as well as 2300 - 2500. If these are breached it's an airpocket all the way towards 1900 then 1400!! Unless there is a war I don't see these levels printing.

$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
hisah
#1043 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2015 3:18:45 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
The only way the bull will return after such an ugly break down is massive PPT action.

Politics being politics I don't see treasury saving KES while the economy goes to the dogs. The negative civil fabric sentiments will force politicians to seek the easiest way out. Print print print inflation be damned. That massive liquidity injection into the economy is what will recharge the bulls.

For now the fight is on their table, which choice will they take inflation or deflation. I expect them to take inflation. The repercussions of deflation are worse than inflation especially with elections around the corner.

$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
VituVingiSana
#1044 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2015 6:53:09 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,349
Location: Nairobi
hisah wrote:
@VVS- the NSE20 historical data is up to 1997. From this 18yr data the chart pattern is as shown below.

@mnandii, SPT, sparkly the trendline break down is worse than I thought!!! There is a long term trendline (14yr) from the 2002 low in August which was the pin off for the Kibaki bull. This trendline has also been broken by the 2015 selloff! We may need to start preparing for a longer bear period! May be for 2 - 3yrs of sideways market action as the market tries to find a floor. A lot of wanjikus will flee from the investor forum towards club SK.

2 - 3yrs of accumulation will be paradise for value investors smile @aguy, VVS will your wallets be able to buy continuously for 3yrs smile

Strong support lies around 3000 - 3300 level as well as 2300 - 2500. If these are breached it's an airpocket all the way towards 1900 then 1400!! Unless there is a war I don't see these levels printing.


@hisah [Please bear with me coz I am no Chartist] Shouldn't the rise start since the index has breached the trendline that started from the lowest point of 2002 and subsequent low points?
As a fundamentalist - in a good way non-threatening way - I see the 'weakness' as a reaction to the poor economic fundamentals.
1) High short-term [T-Bill] rates coupled with good IFB/T-Bond rates means many investors would prefer the risk of certainty of high rates over the uncertainty of 3% dividends & possible capital appreciation of shares.
2) Those who borrow [or use margin] for shares/investment will cut back substantially as interest rates rise. Also firms that want to do takeovers need to weigh the cash returns/costs vs the purchase of another firm.
3) Revenue & profit growth are often driven by expansion but this will be dialed back as costs increase. Some may even sell productive assets.
Kenol isn't expanding as much as it could as it pays down debt. Total without the support of Papa Total would be in deep trouble.
ARM will face headwinds when the Convertible Debt comes due i.e. potentially a larger dilution than Paunrana expected.
Tranny is screwed coz who is going to lend/give them money to pay off the Bond?
KQ's expansion plans are on hold despite the cash from Afreximbank & GoK. Sale of Embakasi land.
EABL selling off land & Central Glass to reduce debt.

BTW, for those cash-rich firms, the future is bright. High interest income, the ability to buy assets on the cheap, muscle out competition thanks to working capital.

I think the destination is the same for both our approaches. I am trying to figure out why you say you can time whereas I have utterly failed to time the inflection points.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Sufficiently Philanga....thropic
#1045 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2015 8:20:55 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2010
Posts: 2,225
Location: Sundowner,Amboseli
hisah wrote:
@VVS- the NSE20 historical data is up to 1997. From this 18yr data the chart pattern is as shown below.

@mnandii, SPT, sparkly the trendline break down is worse than I thought!!! There is a long term trendline (14yr) from the 2002 low in August which was the pin off for the Kibaki bull. This trendline has also been broken by the 2015 selloff! We may need to start preparing for a longer bear period! May be for 2 - 3yrs of sideways market action as the market tries to find a floor. A lot of wanjikus will flee from the investor forum towards club SK.

2 - 3yrs of accumulation will be paradise for value investors smile @aguy, VVS will your wallets be able to buy continuously for 3yrs smile

Strong support lies around 3000 - 3300 level as well as 2300 - 2500. If these are breached it's an airpocket all the way towards 1900 then 1400!! Unless there is a war I don't see these levels printing.



Sad
This is it @hisah.One of the best long term charts. Can you see the double top?Yet the Dow, S&P,FTSE 100 and nikkei are still retracing before the fall. God knows what becomes of the NSE20 when the main rout kicks in.
@SufficientlyP
Sufficiently Philanga....thropic
#1046 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2015 8:32:36 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2010
Posts: 2,225
Location: Sundowner,Amboseli
hisah wrote:
The only way the bull will return after such an ugly break down is massive PPT action.

Politics being politics I don't see treasury saving KES while the economy goes to the dogs. The negative civil fabric sentiments will force politicians to seek the easiest way out. Print print print inflation be damned. That massive liquidity injection into the economy is what will recharge the bulls.

For now the fight is on their table, which choice will they take inflation or deflation. I expect them to take inflation. The repercussions of deflation are worse than inflation especially with elections around the corner.



Not any soonSad Blame it on Eurobond & the IMF loans in USD. So brace yourself for a long spell of high interest rates. I see the thread on Tbills is quite active. We had warned guys during the bull in the maxed out thread about this. And we will see post 25% on T/bills. People should forget ever seeing the dollar at sub 100!
@SufficientlyP
enyands
#1047 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2015 9:42:28 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/25/2014
Posts: 2,301
Location: kenya
Sufficiently Philanga....thropic wrote:
hisah wrote:
The only way the bull will return after such an ugly break down is massive PPT action.

Politics being politics I don't see treasury saving KES while the economy goes to the dogs. The negative civil fabric sentiments will force politicians to seek the easiest way out. Print print print inflation be damned. That massive liquidity injection into the economy is what will recharge the bulls.

For now the fight is on their table, which choice will they take inflation or deflation. I expect them to take inflation. The repercussions of deflation are worse than inflation especially with elections around the corner.



Not any soonSad Blame it on Eurobond & the IMF loans in USD. So brace yourself for a long spell of high interest rates. I see the thread on Tbills is quite active. We had warned guys during the bull in the maxed out thread about this. And we will see post 25% on T/bills. People should forget ever seeing the dollar at sub 100!



Is the bond the way to go now
hisah
#1048 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2015 11:33:53 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
VituVingiSana wrote:
hisah wrote:
@VVS- the NSE20 historical data is up to 1997. From this 18yr data the chart pattern is as shown below.

@mnandii, SPT, sparkly the trendline break down is worse than I thought!!! There is a long term trendline (14yr) from the 2002 low in August which was the pin off for the Kibaki bull. This trendline has also been broken by the 2015 selloff! We may need to start preparing for a longer bear period! May be for 2 - 3yrs of sideways market action as the market tries to find a floor. A lot of wanjikus will flee from the investor forum towards club SK.

2 - 3yrs of accumulation will be paradise for value investors smile @aguy, VVS will your wallets be able to buy continuously for 3yrs smile

Strong support lies around 3000 - 3300 level as well as 2300 - 2500. If these are breached it's an airpocket all the way towards 1900 then 1400!! Unless there is a war I don't see these levels printing.


@hisah [Please bear with me coz I am no Chartist] Shouldn't the rise start since the index has breached the trendline that started from the lowest point of 2002 and subsequent low points?
As a fundamentalist - in a good way non-threatening way - I see the 'weakness' as a reaction to the poor economic fundamentals.
1) High short-term [T-Bill] rates coupled with good IFB/T-Bond rates means many investors would prefer the risk of certainty of high rates over the uncertainty of 3% dividends & possible capital appreciation of shares.
2) Those who borrow [or use margin] for shares/investment will cut back substantially as interest rates rise. Also firms that want to do takeovers need to weigh the cash returns/costs vs the purchase of another firm.
3) Revenue & profit growth are often driven by expansion but this will be dialed back as costs increase. Some may even sell productive assets.
Kenol isn't expanding as much as it could as it pays down debt. Total without the support of Papa Total would be in deep trouble.
ARM will face headwinds when the Convertible Debt comes due i.e. potentially a larger dilution than Paunrana expected.
Tranny is screwed coz who is going to lend/give them money to pay off the Bond?
KQ's expansion plans are on hold despite the cash from Afreximbank & GoK. Sale of Embakasi land.
EABL selling off land & Central Glass to reduce debt.

BTW, for those cash-rich firms, the future is bright. High interest income, the ability to buy assets on the cheap, muscle out competition thanks to working capital.

I think the destination is the same for both our approaches. I am trying to figure out why you say you can time whereas I have utterly failed to time the inflection points.

Timing a market is futile. They reason I state it could take 2 - 3yrs of buying (sideways market) is due to the significant break down of bullish sentiments. Treasury and CBK are not reading from the same script. Poor investment environment with EA going into an elections will present fat discounts.
Globally the junk bond market is very frothy. If markets get spooked as the unwind triggers I wonder how NSE will fair together with other frontier and emerging markets. Cash rich firms will swallow the weaklings. Banking consolidation I had mentioned a while back will also happen.

The treasury chaos plus the soon to come global junk bond turmoil present bullish barriers for KE equities. Unless stimulus is injected in KE economy, bulls have no energy to steady the market mood currently.
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
Aguytrying
#1049 Posted : Saturday, October 17, 2015 9:08:46 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 5,040
hisah wrote:
@VVS- the NSE20 historical data is up to 1997. From this 18yr data the chart pattern is as shown below.

@mnandii, SPT, sparkly the trendline break down is worse than I thought!!! There is a long term trendline (14yr) from the 2002 low in August which was the pin off for the Kibaki bull. This trendline has also been broken by the 2015 selloff! We may need to start preparing for a longer bear period! May be for 2 - 3yrs of sideways market action as the market tries to find a floor. A lot of wanjikus will flee from the investor forum towards club SK.

2 - 3yrs of accumulation will be paradise for value investors smile @aguy, VVS will your wallets be able to buy continuously for 3yrs smile

Strong support lies around 3000 - 3300 level as well as 2300 - 2500. If these are breached it's an airpocket all the way towards 1900 then 1400!! Unless there is a war I don't see these levels printing.



Two years will do nicely. Plant during 'el nino' and harvest later on.
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
Sufficiently Philanga....thropic
#1050 Posted : Saturday, October 17, 2015 10:22:19 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2010
Posts: 2,225
Location: Sundowner,Amboseli
enyands wrote:
Sufficiently Philanga....thropic wrote:
hisah wrote:
The only way the bull will return after such an ugly break down is massive PPT action.

Politics being politics I don't see treasury saving KES while the economy goes to the dogs. The negative civil fabric sentiments will force politicians to seek the easiest way out. Print print print inflation be damned. That massive liquidity injection into the economy is what will recharge the bulls.

For now the fight is on their table, which choice will they take inflation or deflation. I expect them to take inflation. The repercussions of deflation are worse than inflation especially with elections around the corner.



Not any soonSad Blame it on Eurobond & the IMF loans in USD. So brace yourself for a long spell of high interest rates. I see the thread on Tbills is quite active. We had warned guys during the bull in the maxed out thread about this. And we will see post 25% on T/bills. People should forget ever seeing the dollar at sub 100!


Is the bond the way to go now



You will be well buying 91day T/Bills. & rolling over if the yields are going up .As soon as the yields start falling ,you can jump back into Equities .Buying season will be long.

@SufficientlyP
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