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IEBC showdown today!!!!!!!!
kaka2za
#181 Posted : Tuesday, December 27, 2016 10:09:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,057
Location: Gwitu
Impunity wrote:
hardwood wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
hardwood wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
OMG! Babu could be right!
Am in Muranga town and a drunk youth has shown me three different ID cards.He has registered as a voter in Muranga South,East and North!

That explains the rush to change the laws.


Wacha panganga. So what did you do as a responsible citizen? Can you even point where muranga is on a map?
Also is it possible for one to acquire several IDs while one is required to submit fingerprints and birth certificate which are then "matched/searched" in a central database before an ID is issued?

There will be alot of propaganda as we head to the elections.


Muranga is near Kendubay. I didn't do anything because I had better fish to fly.I don't how IDs are issued but I saw three IDs for one guy with different names.
You know better about this government so tell me how he got them.


You must be hallucinating and seeing double double and triple triple triple. Wachana na bangi ya migori . Stick to fish .


One ID could have been his while the other two he picked public notice boards as "lost n found" items.
In that case even me I can have 19 ID's kesho.

You need tell us the DoB entered on the IDs,if the picture was the same, if the person in both hailed from the same village etc.

And by the did he show you his voters cards?Or how did u know he registered in North, South,West,East ext?


It doesn't matter now. @matharu has clarified that Biometrics would forestall any intended rigging.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
murchr
#182 Posted : Tuesday, December 27, 2016 10:13:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
FRM2011 wrote:
Hi @masukuma, I have been hearing this allegation of 2M voters who only vited for president and no other post.

IEBC, in its defence, clarified that the figure was circa 500K not 2M as alleged by cord.

So i decided to counter-check today. 14 counties that voted jubilee overwhelmingly. 9 being mt.kenya stronghold and 5 being north rift.

Guess what. The figures tell a very different story. I averaged the total votes for the other positions against the total presidential vote tally.

Meru county had the highest discrepancy of 5,000 votes. In neighbouring tharaka nithi, the votes cast for the president were actually less than the other elective seats.

I got tired. Why are we so f#&*"g lazy in this country?

Why can't any media house confront cord with the above facts ?

Why can't the jubilee loudmouths respond to cord with facts ?

So now the biggest debate is that dead votes cast their votes for jubilee and evid will take care of that.

And yet there is no evidence for the same.

It's like a country full of zombies. Nkt.


I voted for President and Gov not senator or Mp or MCA, it was a waste of time for me. I know people who opted not to vote for the President because they neither prefered Kenyatta or Raila, but voted for MP and Gov. Why should that be rocket science? I placed the unmarked papers in the ballots. Kwani ni lazima?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
masukuma
#183 Posted : Tuesday, December 27, 2016 11:54:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
aemathenge wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Why do people ignore these facts

Because YOU keep on ignoring the most important facts, which are:

1. THAT Kenia is Inchi Ya Kito Kidogo na Manjambazi. Every one (un)fortunate enough to get that "job" as an erectoral official has a prize.

2. THAT "rigging" specialists at the Polling Centre know that for a "rigging" to succeed, all it takes is compromising what every Erectoral Regime since the 1992 Erections calls the "Lead Clerk."

3. THAT these "officials" are not imported from other Districts/Counties. They are local.

Have a candid conversation with people who have taken those jobs, especially the Clerks and Deputy Returning Officers.


there are 2 totally different aspects of fraud which mahegoat is confusing
1) when an individual hopes to game the system by registering a gazzilion times. this is pointless! the people cleaning the register are not his village mates and it's not even a political process. it's a routine process. Utaskikwa
2) when political players game the system at polling station level i.e. ballot stuffing and for this then you don't need a dude to register 19 using IDs from wherever! you just need your guy in there. why go through the charade of registering a hundred times then appear before your P.O? Si you just wait and mark ballots?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Njung'e
#184 Posted : Wednesday, December 28, 2016 10:09:46 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
I expect sobriety when senate convenes today to debate amendments. I actually think the Senate will find a middle ground where parliament totally failed ( Assuming that idiots like Bony do not go thumping their bony chests). If this happens, then, it will be prove enough that we do not require the ever expensive Mpigs!
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
aemathenge
#185 Posted : Wednesday, December 28, 2016 10:12:58 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
masukuma wrote:
Utaskikwa

In Utopia, absolutely. In Nchi Ya Kito Kidogo na Majambazi? Never.

You see, someone is languishing in Jail cutesy of Her Majesty's Government for bribing (chicken gate) yet the bribe recipients are not only walking free but some of them are recipients of golden handshakes from your hard earned taxes because the Right Honorable Prime Minister led a "IEBC must go campaign" and won.

Polling Station Erection Officials are presented with three registers during Erection Day.

The first one is the Electronically generated register with genuine erectors.

The second one is the famous Black Book, several black books actually, covering everyone, genuine or not who has registered in that Polling Center.

The Third one lists consists of the "utashikwa" you allude to. Those listed here should be in prison for double/triple registration.

This third one should actually be in the hands of the Public Prosecutor for the office to bring charges against those listed for breaking the law.

I have yet to hear of anyone prosecuted yet clear and present evidence is right there in writing.

Dead voters voting is another whole post.

Interested or would you rather talk to ex Erection official before displaying your Utopian ignorance?
masukuma
#186 Posted : Wednesday, December 28, 2016 12:05:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
aemathenge wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Utaskikwa

In Utopia, absolutely. In Nchi Ya Kito Kidogo na Majambazi? Never.

You see, someone is languishing in Jail cutesy of Her Majesty's Government for bribing (chicken gate) yet the bribe recipients are not only walking free but some of them are recipients of golden handshakes from your hard earned taxes because the Right Honorable Prime Minister led a "IEBC must go campaign" and won.

Polling Station Erection Officials are presented with three registers during Erection Day.

The first one is the Electronically generated register with genuine erectors.

The second one is the famous Black Book, several black books actually, covering everyone, genuine or not who has registered in that Polling Center.

The Third one lists consists of the "utashikwa" you allude to. Those listed here should be in prison for double/triple registration.

This third one should actually be in the hands of the Public Prosecutor for the office to bring charges against those listed for breaking the law.

I have yet to hear of anyone prosecuted yet clear and present evidence is right there in writing.

Dead voters voting is another whole post.

Interested or would you rather talk to ex Erection official before displaying your Utopian ignorance?

Mahegoat... despite your name - you have always seemed to me like an intelligent fellow. Why do you constantly mix the two mattersI what happens at the polling station IN voting day and what happens during the preparation of the roll? kushikwa means 2 things... 1) AFIS will nab you if you attempt to register multiple times.
2) you will be removed from the roll of registered voters and will be placedon supplementary roll of people who if show up are to be arrested.

The enforcement of the last stage of action subject to the whims of the polling station staff in the same way deceased voters can vote but they cannot add you to the list of registered voters.

Niambie.. unapotelea wapi.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
aemathenge
#187 Posted : Wednesday, December 28, 2016 2:02:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
masukuma wrote:
Niambie.. unapotelea wapi.

1. "AFIS" has already nabbed me. Acknowledged.

2. "you will be removed from the roll of registered voters and will be placedon supplementary roll of people who if show up are to be arrested."

Removal, correct and acknowledged.

Arrested, not yet since 1997 erections to date.

But in fact allowed to vote.

"I" have not been removed from the Black Book in each of the additional polling centers "I" have double/triple registered in.

In my tribal enclave, "I" will be allowed ("I" have been allowed to vote) between 6 am and 10 am at the first center, between 12 pm and 4 pm at the second center and between 5 pm and 6 pm at the third center, so long as "I" appear on the "Black Book" in each respective center.

These Polling Centers are usually bordering on each other.

The core of this whole brouhaha is that one side wants the complete eradication of the this "Black Book" while the other side wants a dual application of "AFIS" and the "Black Book".

It is not the hardware, nor the software. These work perfectly in 99% of the centers.

It is the people-ware who have been (will be) compromised.

Feel me?
masukuma
#188 Posted : Wednesday, December 28, 2016 2:55:27 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
aemathenge wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Niambie.. unapotelea wapi.

1. "AFIS" has already nabbed me. Acknowledged.

2. "you will be removed from the roll of registered voters and will be placedon supplementary roll of people who if show up are to be arrested."

Removal, correct and acknowledged.

Arrested, not yet since 1997 erections to date.

But in fact allowed to vote.

"I" have not been removed from the Black Book in each of the additional polling centers "I" have double/triple registered in.

In my tribal enclave, "I" will be allowed ("I" have been allowed to vote) between 6 am and 10 am at the first center, between 12 pm and 4 pm at the second center and between 5 pm and 6 pm at the third center, so long as "I" appear on the "Black Book" in each respective center.

These Polling Centers are usually bordering on each other.

The core of this whole brouhaha is that one side wants the complete eradication of the this "Black Book" while the other side wants a dual application of "AFIS" and the "Black Book".

It is not the hardware, nor the software. These work perfectly in 99% of the centers.

It is the people-ware who have been (will be) compromised.

Feel me?


the black book was during the ECK era. the green book was an IEBC creation. We are in the IEBC era. Let me explain it's basis and how it came into use. So the register was biometric and all data had to be captured on the electronic system. I know for a fact some of these places had issues with registration machines. Some machines crashed and some of the biggest noise makers now in CORD would not be on the register if the greenbook was not in place. Why - law of large numbers. in a group of a couple 10s of thousands of staff some one will not follow procedure. Some fellow will not back up the data as expected and if it happens that that machine crashes and you did not backup the register - what should happen to the data of all those who had registered and are already home? in elections we say - when you find yourself in such a situation it is better to err on the side of inclusion! why voting is a right in the same league as right to life and picking a spouse. The enforcement of polling day procedures is key to having the process of inclusion working well.
P.S. Just confirmed with my source - several persons were arrested in 2013 when they registered multiple times and showed up to vote. So ambia hao majamaa waRegister ovyo ovyo - utapatikana... utakula ugali wa serikali unless P.O ni rela wako

secondly, if you indeed appeared on the black book of registered voters during the ECK days and were allowed to vote multiple times - did they mark your finger with indelible ink? if you managed to convince them (I am guessing multiple polling stations) not to mark you as voted already - what was the point of even having you on the black book in the first place. If you convinced them to ignore your entry in the supplementary roll of persons to be arrested when they show up to register - why do you even need to be registered in the 1st place? I have heard of narratives from strongholds that ikifika time fulani - those who have not showed up to vote actually 'vote'. Why engage in the charade of being in the black book in the first place if you can still vote.

Let's pause for a while and ask ourselves. How many people were on the supplementary list of persons without biometrics? (due to various system failures?) there were some 45k cases in that range during the last registration cycle - this represented 0.3% of the register. we are not even told if these people showed up to vote in the first place. So if 0.3% of the register make akina Kethi go to court and zusha about the integrity of the whole register - why do we think denying a sizable population the oppotunity to vote is any sort of compromise? elections are for people not for politicians.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
kaka2za
#189 Posted : Wednesday, December 28, 2016 3:47:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,057
Location: Gwitu
masukuma wrote:
aemathenge wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Niambie.. unapotelea wapi.

1. "AFIS" has already nabbed me. Acknowledged.

2. "you will be removed from the roll of registered voters and will be placedon supplementary roll of people who if show up are to be arrested."

Removal, correct and acknowledged.

Arrested, not yet since 1997 erections to date.

But in fact allowed to vote.

"I" have not been removed from the Black Book in each of the additional polling centers "I" have double/triple registered in.

In my tribal enclave, "I" will be allowed ("I" have been allowed to vote) between 6 am and 10 am at the first center, between 12 pm and 4 pm at the second center and between 5 pm and 6 pm at the third center, so long as "I" appear on the "Black Book" in each respective center.

These Polling Centers are usually bordering on each other.

The core of this whole brouhaha is that one side wants the complete eradication of the this "Black Book" while the other side wants a dual application of "AFIS" and the "Black Book".

It is not the hardware, nor the software. These work perfectly in 99% of the centers.

It is the people-ware who have been (will be) compromised.

Feel me?


the black book was during the ECK era. the green book was an IEBC creation. We are in the IEBC era. Let me explain it's basis and how it came into use. So the register was biometric and all data had to be captured on the electronic system. I know for a fact some of these places had issues with registration machines. Some machines crashed and some of the biggest noise makers now in CORD would not be on the register if the greenbook was not in place. Why - law of large numbers. in a group of a couple 10s of thousands of staff some one will not follow procedure. Some fellow will not back up the data as expected and if it happens that that machine crashes and you did not backup the register - what should happen to the data of all those who had registered and are already home? in elections we say - when you find yourself in such a situation it is better to err on the side of inclusion! why voting is a right in the same league as right to life and picking a spouse. The enforcement of polling day procedures is key to having the process of inclusion working well.
P.S. Just confirmed with my source - several persons were arrested in 2013 when they registered multiple times and showed up to vote. So ambia hao majamaa waRegister ovyo ovyo - utapatikana... utakula ugali wa serikali unless P.O ni rela wako

secondly, if you indeed appeared on the black book of registered voters during the ECK days and were allowed to vote multiple times - did they mark your finger with indelible ink? if you managed to convince them (I am guessing multiple polling stations) not to mark you as voted already - what was the point of even having you on the black book in the first place. If you convinced them to ignore your entry in the supplementary roll of persons to be arrested when they show up to register - why do you even need to be registered in the 1st place? I have heard of narratives from strongholds that ikifika time fulani - those who have not showed up to vote actually 'vote'. Why engage in the charade of being in the black book in the first place if you can still vote.

Let's pause for a while and ask ourselves. How many people were on the supplementary list of persons without biometrics? (due to various system failures?) there were some 45k cases in that range during the last registration cycle - this represented 0.3% of the register. we are not even told if these people showed up to vote in the first place. So if 0.3% of the register make akina Kethi go to court and zusha about the integrity of the whole register - why do we think denying a sizable population the oppotunity to vote is any sort of compromise? elections are for people not for politicians.


I will tell you why people bother to register. You see,in spite of the baneful intentions, we are aware of the presence of media and other observers so will go through the black/green books to mask the rigging.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
KulaRaha
#190 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 11:42:29 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,514
Must you become a fool when you join GoK?

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Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
hardwood
#191 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 11:51:39 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
KulaRaha wrote:
Must you become a fool when you join GoK?

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The CS is right. Alshabaab has been destroying communication masts in mandera lately and these are the same masts you people want to use to conduct your digital election.

http://www.nation.co.ke/...83950-a27xg1/index.html

http://www.nation.co.ke/...1183298-3484586-xbobn2/




masukuma
#192 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 11:56:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Let's place things in perspective : voting day has about 4 core activities that happen at polling station
1) verification - looking up your name on the register and marking you off the register
2) ballot paper marking and dropping the marked ballot into a ballot
3) counting of all ballots in the said ballot box.
4) announcement and sending of results of the polling station to the next level.

The current debate is about step 1 and 4. Namely verification of persons and after doing all that needs to happen - transmitting the results.
this is not a new thing per se as it happened in 2013 and was not a legal requirement but rather an administrative step. now the 2 have been entrenched in law. I am very much for the automation of those two but I am very certain that I want a fallback that does not infringe on the key reason we go for elections... hearing the voices of the people. Now DISCUSS.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
KulaRaha
#193 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 12:01:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,514
hardwood wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:
Must you become a fool when you join GoK?

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly



The CS is right. Alshabaab has been destroying communication masts in mandera lately and these are the same masts you people want to use to conduct your digital election.

http://www.nation.co.ke/...83950-a27xg1/index.html

http://www.nation.co.ke/...1183298-3484586-xbobn2/






We should also stop mpesa in Mandera as they can destroy cellular towers etc and cause economic meltdown and a recession.

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
Much Know
#194 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 12:13:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,548
masukuma wrote:
Now DISCUSS.

Using the word "systems" can be used to cause chaos in Kenya by bad politicians, they will spread lies like "stolen", "compromised", and lo and behold if there is a beautiful professional lady(of just wrong TRIBE) near the 'system', she shall be abused in conjunction with the system failure by the politicians and asked to resign. Before you know it, we have a team of international experts hired to check what happened, and their answer, we don't know? But billions will have been already spent through tenders on the system.

Then the "know it all" "IT Experts", and Data analyst experts will come in with their expensive looking "corporate style" designer spectacles aka goggles, and start yapping kizungu mingi about 2 levels of security, biometrics, software bugs, data mining, IP address, hacking, selling info, each with a different story and they are the specific experts to solve the problem for billions (na wameweka stoneface), "more tender", before we know it we have a full scale war of confusion and lies.2022 scenario repeated.

A manual back up to avoid the above confusion is a must!
A New Kenya
Angelica _ann
#195 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 12:17:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,908
What was so hard Muturi allowing such sober discussions? Worst speaker ever, in my opinion.
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
hardwood
#196 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 12:25:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
KulaRaha wrote:
hardwood wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:
Must you become a fool when you join GoK?

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly



The CS is right. Alshabaab has been destroying communication masts in mandera lately and these are the same masts you people want to use to conduct your digital election.

http://www.nation.co.ke/...83950-a27xg1/index.html

http://www.nation.co.ke/...1183298-3484586-xbobn2/






We should also stop mpesa in Mandera as they can destroy cellular towers etc and cause economic meltdown and a recession.

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly


At least the residents are wise and have a manual backup ie cash money and dont have to wait until the dysfunctional (destroyed) safcom and orange towers are repaired for them to continue transacting business. But baba is insisting that "they MUST suspend all business until mpesa is back". So if anything happens to the communication towers during election time, baba is saying that we wait for even 2 weeks until they are repaired, then the people can vote and results can be transmitted.
hardwood
#197 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 12:45:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Angelica _ann wrote:
What was so hard Muturi allowing such sober discussions? Worst speaker ever, in my opinion.


Ethuro is the worst speaker in my view because instead of being decisive and concluding the issue, he chose to buy time, and now he wants a committee to start collecting views. How can the peoples' representatives in parliament pass a law and then ethuro directs that some committee goes around in six days "to collect views". How will those views be collected and from whom? Will the committee go to all counties and villages? I thought we sent our representatives to parliament (and senate) to deal with such issues. We need decisive leaders who deal issues not postponing them.

Also what is the point of having a democracy when the majority (in this case jubilee) are not allowed to have their way? Ethuros move is an affront to democracy since he wants the minority cord to dictate how things should be run via some "out of parliament" shenanigans. Kenyans chose jubilee to run govt and that is why it has majority in parliament and senate. And its wrong for ethuro to suppress the voice of Kenyans.

The only good thing with that ruling is that it has deflated baba's mass action and therefore kids can now report to school in peace.
masukuma
#198 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 1:01:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Much Know wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Now DISCUSS.

Using the word "systems" can be used to cause chaos in Kenya by bad politicians, they will spread lies like "stolen", "compromised", and lo and behold if there is a beautiful professional lady(of just wrong TRIBE) near the 'system', she shall be abused in conjunction with the system failure by the politicians and asked to resign. Before you know it, we have a team of international experts hired to check what happened, and their answer, we don't know? But billions will have been already spent through tenders on the system.

Then the "know it all" "IT Experts", and Data analyst experts will come in with their expensive looking "corporate style" designer spectacles aka goggles, and start yapping kizungu mingi about 2 levels of security, biometrics, software bugs, data mining, IP address, hacking, selling info, each with a different story and they are the specific experts to solve the problem for billions (na wameweka stoneface), "more tender", before we know it we have a full scale war of confusion and lies.2022 scenario repeated.

A manual back up to avoid the above confusion is a must!



I remember sometime back writing this in response to @maka's proposal of some mpesa like system to vote on the phone.

masukuma wrote:
No! it won't work... I am a tech guy and so this is strange coming from me - right? I have heard this from Tech people who implement systems all over the place and when I started this line of work I thought the same.
But I have thought about this over and over and I have possibly 2 big reasons why this will not work. Let me explain, Remember all mordern electoral systems (systems as in process) are implementations of article 21(3) of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states:
Quote:

The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.


1) Inclusivity
here is the deal - Elections unlike any other thing done by people should not have requirements that 99% of the population. 80% of people have mobile phones and almost 90% is not good enough... it has to be DEMONSTRATABLE 100% OF THE PEOPLE. That is why the requirement to vote is so low! in countries like the US the issue of voting with a photo ID is being debated. To vote you should just have been a citizen and a grownup. by the way citizenship is not granted by the state (we have it all wrong here.... it's an illenable right). but yeah.... having a requirement to have a phone disenfranchises people. The best statement I ever heard about the magic of election day is that IT'S THE ONE DAY THAT THE WOMAN AT THE MARKET PLACE SPEAKS AS ELOQUENTLY AS THE CEO OF A BANK! By the way... I AM A TECH GUY AND I DON'T USE M-PESA!!!! I dislike it! but that's just me. how many of us are out there? What we are having now is what one writer called "The Idolatry of Efficiency". We are being tempted to sacrifice inclusivity at the altar of efficiency!

2) Transparency vs Secrecy
Remember the system has to be "secret". This means that only I know who I voted for! Secondly We must know for sure who got what. And this determine the operation procedures of a polling station. Technology to do this is out there. VVAT machines e.t.c. but the problem we have is that DEMOCRACY if you really dig through the meaning of the word is coined from greek meaning RULE of MANY! right... "Demos".."Kratos". TECHNOLOGY is actually at it's root a realm of a few! it's a skill. The writting of software is not a thing that everyone can relate to! (this was prominent in social media conversations when John Allan Namu and Moha did that expose! people don't really know what to believe... terms like IP addresses, Operating Systems e.t.c. lost people). We may be given an easy enough user interface but what lurks in the background? Can you tell? What tends to happen is that an elite bunch of tech people tell the rest of the people... HEY THIS SYSTEM WORKS! IT'S SECURE E.T.C. We have to take it at face value. As opposed to the demonstratability of polling day procedures at a polling station. it's self manifest! A parallel story to this is a story I once heard on a minister in Canada being fried for expenses on juice! she drunk a $19 glass of juice and charged it to the state. People went ballistic....why ? they know the price of juice. They can relate to it. There have been many claims on millions of dollars being used to buy Military Jets.... but people don't go ballistic over them coz... who really knows what a jet costs? Or an aircraft carrier! is 2billion too much to spend of an aircraft carrier? or is it too little? is it just right? The populace does not know! Remember the Kanu "formula" thing? people didn't understand it! That's the problem of technology - it requires a bunch of experts to tell you... hey... this thing works and philosophically this puts the demonstratability of whether a system is secure/secret/transparent in the hands of the owners of the skill (few people) instead of the "demos" that own the process.

so basically - elections are not meant to be EFFECIENT! that is where all outsiders get lost - ELECTIONS ARE MEANT TO BE INCLUSIVE, TRANSPARENT AND SECRET AND DEMONSTRATABLY SO TO EVERYONE! that is why the physical ballot paper process is still king.


this was way before current debate. Does anyone remember the conversation around the inside story? 50% +1 by akina Namu? especially the second bit?



no one really understands technology - not Raila, Not Kalonzo not even the 'hackers' or even the east africa data network person. No one. the conversation that followed us was even more interesting... sasa people were following the lead of persons who they trusted... persons who were clueless on the subject matter. it's a case of the blind following the blind! that's the worst thing when technology fails... some guy once said
Quote:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic

MPESA is magic to many people... it 'just works' until it stops and people cannot tell what to do
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
PeterReborn
#199 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 1:30:01 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/3/2014
Posts: 1,063
I love the sober debate in the Senate legal committee.Wako isvery professional and articulate.
Consistency is better than intensity
aemathenge
#200 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 1:43:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
masukuma wrote:
Let's place things in perspective....Now DISCUSS.

I was reaching a point of exasperation, and then I happened to have clicked on Season One Episode One instead of one of the world’s favourites; Season Three Episode One.

Right from day one, Special Agent Donald Ressler is the butt of many a joke from Mr. Reddington.

This is because Agent Ressler is a stickler for the straight and narrow and presumes everyone else does the same.

I hope you and Citizens have watched Season One and perhaps the rest of the series.

Because I am about to have my fun too.

You might want to talk to Clerks who have actually worked as Polling Clerks in “Strong Hold Areas” between 6 am and 6 pm who later become Counting Clerks after having their dinner.

Out there, there is evidence of rigging.

Or is there?

Kirinyaga District Erectoral Commission of Kenya Office Headquarters was burnt to the ground.

Twice.

What was that story about where Kenyatta University “students” destroyed erectoral materials stored within the campus?

Grab some popcorn.

Perspective. The cheek.
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