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UN Security Council finally agrees to defer case?
Rank: New-farer Joined: 9/9/2013 Posts: 91
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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ecstacy wrote:tycho wrote: If, we negotiate with the ICC tactfully, we can avoid making this a chest thumping competition and come with a real solution to and for the common man.
How do we negotiate with the ICC tactfully? I like your thoughts but you can't simply get in and out of international obligations when you discover they are somewhat manipulated. Diplomatic pressure has to be brought to bear and with no economic clout we only have the AU membership to legally(safely) make this point. I agree with you on the use of diplomatic force, but the common man can also be handy here. It's about fostering agreement among ourselves. As for the ICC, we will not be walking in and out, but we will be affirming and protecting it. Let's give ICC what it wants but in this case some negotiations have to take place. And will it be the first time a prosecution will cut a deal? A deal that will leave it's position stronger? This whole thing is politics, and why should we cheer others as they play? If the common citizen can get something of value out of this why shouldn't he go for it? I care about justice, and I see a different kind of genocide where young men and women are killed every day in the fight against crime. Nowadays children have become robbers. The gap between the rich and poor is still widening as we quote 'Locke'. What's the point of all this circus? The ICC should help stop it by working with and for the 'sufferers of the world'. Perhaps I should put this matter better by sharing my personal experience on this. Everyday I visit a friend who was shot on the back during PEV and left paralyzed waist down. He's a young man who suddenly found himself deserted even by his wife and children. He is a strong man and does well in taking care of himself, but think about the children. They must at least have some explanation to all these experiences they're having. Should I be shouting about whether the President should or shouldn't go? The question is where's my son, daughter, brother . . . father, and unfortunately over a thousand are missing on this account. How will UK's imprisonment answer this question? Am I prepared to tell the Children that it's because Uhuru and Sang are bad people and thankfully they are behind bars? God forbid! My goggles can't see justice there.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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tycho wrote:ecstacy wrote:tycho wrote: If, we negotiate with the ICC tactfully, we can avoid making this a chest thumping competition and come with a real solution to and for the common man.
How do we negotiate with the ICC tactfully? I like your thoughts but you can't simply get in and out of international obligations when you discover they are somewhat manipulated. Diplomatic pressure has to be brought to bear and with no economic clout we only have the AU membership to legally(safely) make this point. I agree with you on the use of diplomatic force, but the common man can also be handy here. It's about fostering agreement among ourselves. As for the ICC, we will not be walking in and out, but we will be affirming and protecting it. Let's give ICC what it wants but in this case some negotiations have to take place. And will it be the first time a prosecution will cut a deal? A deal that will leave it's position stronger? This whole thing is politics, and why should we cheer others as they play? If the common citizen can get something of value out of this why shouldn't he go for it? I care about justice, and I see a different kind of genocide where young men and women are killed every day in the fight against crime. Nowadays children have become robbers. The gap between the rich and poor is still widening as we quote 'Locke'. What's the point of all this circus? The ICC should help stop it by working with and for the 'sufferers of the world'. Perhaps I should put this matter better by sharing my personal experience on this. Everyday I visit a friend who was shot on the back during PEV and left paralyzed waist down. He's a young man who suddenly found himself deserted even by his wife and children. He is a strong man and does well in taking care of himself, but think about the children. They must at least have some explanation to all these experiences they're having. Should I be shouting about whether the President should or shouldn't go? The question is where's my son, daughter, brother . . . father, and unfortunately over a thousand are missing on this account. How will UK's imprisonment answer this question? Am I prepared to tell the Children that it's because Uhuru and Sang are bad people and thankfully they are behind bars? God forbid! My goggles can't see justice there. you don't negotiate with a barking dog but rather with it's master! the UN security council! the ICC cannot help you! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/15/2012 Posts: 1,110
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Ruto expected to affirm his support for the ICC process - contrary to the AU resolution. One house, different voices? Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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masukuma wrote:tycho wrote:ecstacy wrote:tycho wrote: If, we negotiate with the ICC tactfully, we can avoid making this a chest thumping competition and come with a real solution to and for the common man.
How do we negotiate with the ICC tactfully? I like your thoughts but you can't simply get in and out of international obligations when you discover they are somewhat manipulated. Diplomatic pressure has to be brought to bear and with no economic clout we only have the AU membership to legally(safely) make this point. I agree with you on the use of diplomatic force, but the common man can also be handy here. It's about fostering agreement among ourselves. As for the ICC, we will not be walking in and out, but we will be affirming and protecting it. Let's give ICC what it wants but in this case some negotiations have to take place. And will it be the first time a prosecution will cut a deal? A deal that will leave it's position stronger? This whole thing is politics, and why should we cheer others as they play? If the common citizen can get something of value out of this why shouldn't he go for it? I care about justice, and I see a different kind of genocide where young men and women are killed every day in the fight against crime. Nowadays children have become robbers. The gap between the rich and poor is still widening as we quote 'Locke'. What's the point of all this circus? The ICC should help stop it by working with and for the 'sufferers of the world'. Perhaps I should put this matter better by sharing my personal experience on this. Everyday I visit a friend who was shot on the back during PEV and left paralyzed waist down. He's a young man who suddenly found himself deserted even by his wife and children. He is a strong man and does well in taking care of himself, but think about the children. They must at least have some explanation to all these experiences they're having. Should I be shouting about whether the President should or shouldn't go? The question is where's my son, daughter, brother . . . father, and unfortunately over a thousand are missing on this account. How will UK's imprisonment answer this question? Am I prepared to tell the Children that it's because Uhuru and Sang are bad people and thankfully they are behind bars? God forbid! My goggles can't see justice there. you don't negotiate with a barking dog but rather with it's master! the UN security council! the ICC cannot help you! I know about the 'masters'. And yes you also talk to them and give them business.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/15/2012 Posts: 1,110
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tycho wrote:ecstacy wrote:tycho wrote: If, we negotiate with the ICC tactfully, we can avoid making this a chest thumping competition and come with a real solution to and for the common man.
How do we negotiate with the ICC tactfully? I like your thoughts but you can't simply get in and out of international obligations when you discover they are somewhat manipulated. Diplomatic pressure has to be brought to bear and with no economic clout we only have the AU membership to legally(safely) make this point. I agree with you on the use of diplomatic force, but the common man can also be handy here. It's about fostering agreement among ourselves. As for the ICC, we will not be walking in and out, but we will be affirming and protecting it. Let's give ICC what it wants but in this case some negotiations have to take place. And will it be the first time a prosecution will cut a deal? A deal that will leave it's position stronger? This whole thing is politics, and why should we cheer others as they play? If the common citizen can get something of value out of this why shouldn't he go for it? I care about justice, and I see a different kind of genocide where young men and women are killed every day in the fight against crime. Nowadays children have become robbers. The gap between the rich and poor is still widening as we quote 'Locke'. What's the point of all this circus? The ICC should help stop it by working with and for the 'sufferers of the world'. Perhaps I should put this matter better by sharing my personal experience on this. Everyday I visit a friend who was shot on the back during PEV and left paralyzed waist down. He's a young man who suddenly found himself deserted even by his wife and children. He is a strong man and does well in taking care of himself, but think about the children. They must at least have some explanation to all these experiences they're having. Should I be shouting about whether the President should or shouldn't go? The question is where's my son, daughter, brother . . . father, and unfortunately over a thousand are missing on this account. How will UK's imprisonment answer this question? Am I prepared to tell the Children that it's because Uhuru and Sang are bad people and thankfully they are behind bars? God forbid! My goggles can't see justice there.
Short-term gains vs long term gains. As a country, should we go for peace or for justice? Some feel that three people should be held responsible for the PEV. Others feel that communities that were fighting came together, which negates the need for justice.
Climbing the tree starts from the bottom. Focusing on the end and then working our way backwards can be a good starting point. Above all, the bottom part of the tree is as important as the the top part. But the focus in now shifting. It's back to square one. Which way forward? Live Full Die Empty - Les Brown.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Innovate, before 'peace' or 'justice' comes truth. The way forward is to secure 'truth', then everything else can follow.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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InnovateGuy wrote:tycho wrote:ecstacy wrote:tycho wrote: If, we negotiate with the ICC tactfully, we can avoid making this a chest thumping competition and come with a real solution to and for the common man.
How do we negotiate with the ICC tactfully? I like your thoughts but you can't simply get in and out of international obligations when you discover they are somewhat manipulated. Diplomatic pressure has to be brought to bear and with no economic clout we only have the AU membership to legally(safely) make this point. I agree with you on the use of diplomatic force, but the common man can also be handy here. It's about fostering agreement among ourselves. As for the ICC, we will not be walking in and out, but we will be affirming and protecting it. Let's give ICC what it wants but in this case some negotiations have to take place. And will it be the first time a prosecution will cut a deal? A deal that will leave it's position stronger? This whole thing is politics, and why should we cheer others as they play? If the common citizen can get something of value out of this why shouldn't he go for it? I care about justice, and I see a different kind of genocide where young men and women are killed every day in the fight against crime. Nowadays children have become robbers. The gap between the rich and poor is still widening as we quote 'Locke'. What's the point of all this circus? The ICC should help stop it by working with and for the 'sufferers of the world'. Perhaps I should put this matter better by sharing my personal experience on this. Everyday I visit a friend who was shot on the back during PEV and left paralyzed waist down. He's a young man who suddenly found himself deserted even by his wife and children. He is a strong man and does well in taking care of himself, but think about the children. They must at least have some explanation to all these experiences they're having. Should I be shouting about whether the President should or shouldn't go? The question is where's my son, daughter, brother . . . father, and unfortunately over a thousand are missing on this account. How will UK's imprisonment answer this question? Am I prepared to tell the Children that it's because Uhuru and Sang are bad people and thankfully they are behind bars? God forbid! My goggles can't see justice there.
Short-term gains vs long term gains. As a country, should we go for peace or for justice? Some feel that three people should be held responsible for the PEV. Others feel that communities that were fighting came together, which negates the need for justice.
Climbing the tree starts from the bottom. Focusing on the end and then working our way backwards can be a good starting point. Above all, the bottom part of the tree is as important as the the top part. But the focus in now shifting. It's back to square one. Which way forward? Came together? You sure about that? ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/7/2011 Posts: 117 Location: Nairobi
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McReggae wrote:InnovateGuy wrote:tycho wrote:ecstacy wrote:tycho wrote: If, we negotiate with the ICC tactfully, we can avoid making this a chest thumping competition and come with a real solution to and for the common man.
How do we negotiate with the ICC tactfully? I like your thoughts but you can't simply get in and out of international obligations when you discover they are somewhat manipulated. Diplomatic pressure has to be brought to bear and with no economic clout we only have the AU membership to legally(safely) make this point. I agree with you on the use of diplomatic force, but the common man can also be handy here. It's about fostering agreement among ourselves. As for the ICC, we will not be walking in and out, but we will be affirming and protecting it. Let's give ICC what it wants but in this case some negotiations have to take place. And will it be the first time a prosecution will cut a deal? A deal that will leave it's position stronger? This whole thing is politics, and why should we cheer others as they play? If the common citizen can get something of value out of this why shouldn't he go for it? I care about justice, and I see a different kind of genocide where young men and women are killed every day in the fight against crime. Nowadays children have become robbers. The gap between the rich and poor is still widening as we quote 'Locke'. What's the point of all this circus? The ICC should help stop it by working with and for the 'sufferers of the world'. Perhaps I should put this matter better by sharing my personal experience on this. Everyday I visit a friend who was shot on the back during PEV and left paralyzed waist down. He's a young man who suddenly found himself deserted even by his wife and children. He is a strong man and does well in taking care of himself, but think about the children. They must at least have some explanation to all these experiences they're having. Should I be shouting about whether the President should or shouldn't go? The question is where's my son, daughter, brother . . . father, and unfortunately over a thousand are missing on this account. How will UK's imprisonment answer this question? Am I prepared to tell the Children that it's because Uhuru and Sang are bad people and thankfully they are behind bars? God forbid! My goggles can't see justice there.
Short-term gains vs long term gains. As a country, should we go for peace or for justice? Some feel that three people should be held responsible for the PEV. Others feel that communities that were fighting came together, which negates the need for justice.
Climbing the tree starts from the bottom. Focusing on the end and then working our way backwards can be a good starting point. Above all, the bottom part of the tree is as important as the the top part. But the focus in now shifting. It's back to square one. Which way forward? Came together? You sure about that? @InnovateGuy- When did two people become communities?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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InnovateGuy wrote:tycho wrote:ecstacy wrote:tycho wrote: If, we negotiate with the ICC tactfully, we can avoid making this a chest thumping competition and come with a real solution to and for the common man.
How do we negotiate with the ICC tactfully? I like your thoughts but you can't simply get in and out of international obligations when you discover they are somewhat manipulated. Diplomatic pressure has to be brought to bear and with no economic clout we only have the AU membership to legally(safely) make this point. I agree with you on the use of diplomatic force, but the common man can also be handy here. It's about fostering agreement among ourselves. As for the ICC, we will not be walking in and out, but we will be affirming and protecting it. Let's give ICC what it wants but in this case some negotiations have to take place. And will it be the first time a prosecution will cut a deal? A deal that will leave it's position stronger? This whole thing is politics, and why should we cheer others as they play? If the common citizen can get something of value out of this why shouldn't he go for it? I care about justice, and I see a different kind of genocide where young men and women are killed every day in the fight against crime. Nowadays children have become robbers. The gap between the rich and poor is still widening as we quote 'Locke'. What's the point of all this circus? The ICC should help stop it by working with and for the 'sufferers of the world'. Perhaps I should put this matter better by sharing my personal experience on this. Everyday I visit a friend who was shot on the back during PEV and left paralyzed waist down. He's a young man who suddenly found himself deserted even by his wife and children. He is a strong man and does well in taking care of himself, but think about the children. They must at least have some explanation to all these experiences they're having. Should I be shouting about whether the President should or shouldn't go? The question is where's my son, daughter, brother . . . father, and unfortunately over a thousand are missing on this account. How will UK's imprisonment answer this question? Am I prepared to tell the Children that it's because Uhuru and Sang are bad people and thankfully they are behind bars? God forbid! My goggles can't see justice there.
Short-term gains vs long term gains. As a country, should we go for peace or for justice? Some feel that three people should be held responsible for the PEV. Others feel that communities that were fighting came together, which negates the need for justice.
Climbing the tree starts from the bottom. Focusing on the end and then working our way backwards can be a good starting point. Above all, the bottom part of the tree is as important as the the top part. But the focus in now shifting. It's back to square one. Which way forward? Lets face it... most of the pro ICC persons are actually not seeking justice! their mouths speak justice but their words don't. Question no 1: How is justice derailed if the legal team of Kenyatta and ruto remain there working on the trials? I will tell you right here that these pro-ICC people are actually in it for political reasons (Guka calls it a hyena focusing at a swinging arm and waiting for it to fall off). they are opportunists!! if they had any sort of integrity they would tell you just how elated they were when 'wezi wa kura' were being beaten up and killed - but they won't. the judicial process has been tainted so much by politics (who remembers akina Karojo doing shuttle diplomacy?). Secondly for those who rightly are seeking justice... this is my PLEA to them. since they are the only people in this matter who I care about. To the mother who had her child thrown into the fire - I plead with her to forgive (it is not something that others can purport to do for you). Kenya like others need to go forward. there have been atrocities committed but as in the case of Northern Ireland and UK - you need to focus on peace. The case of Apartheid in SA.... sometimes people need to move forward!! but its their call. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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