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Uganda's Air Superiority
simonkabz
#1 Posted : Friday, May 21, 2010 3:16:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Supposing it is true Uganda is acquiring 6 brand new Sukhoi 30 jet fighters fm Russia, and having been an inferior country militarily all these years, she may just decide to flex a muscle or two, to assert newly acquired military authority. What are the possible consequences of all this? Ethiopia have about 15 Su 27 which r almost equivalent to Su 30, but never a threat coz we r possibly her only true friend hehe.... With oil wealth smelling round the corner, a militant prezzo in control, The Pearl of Africa may just assume the Kenya's loosely held mantle of the giant of EAC, both on the economic n military front....followed closely by an ARMS RACE! The story was published by some russian paper bt Uganda vehemently refuted it, citing many funny reasons. I didnt beleive them. If u want to know what niggershit we r about to face, just google Su30 MK2....
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
Intelligentsia
#2 Posted : Friday, May 21, 2010 4:02:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
wazi wazi @simonkabz
I love discussing military matters! Because that i hy most technologies are first applied before they revert to civilian use eg the radar. At about 13 yrs old I could instantly tell if a passing aircraft was kenyan airforce or foreign. the interest lives on after buying so many copies of Jane's Defence magazines!

Pity no uniformed soldiers or military buffs in wazuan.
I have interacted in the past with our army men & even airmen and learnt plenty both at MAB & out in the field.

to begin with, the Ugandans have not yet bought the 6 killer Sukhois, they are hoping to do so with cash from their oil fileds - na hawajaanza hata ku produce oil commercially. So the Sukhois landing after Ug. affording USD &1.2b is a fairly tall order for now...

secondly, the tanzanians already have the twin-tail 6 MIG-29s. The Sudanese too have this advanced fighter (Mig-29)...all these are top-of-the range fighers.Ethiopians & Eritreans also have advanced fighters (called 4th generational fighters. So guys we are living in a tough neighbourhood.

Kenya has F-5s and u recall it was all over military circles that we were importing some 15 F-5s from Jordan. They say they will be fitted with advanced avionics but the West's equivalent of our new threats is the F-16 (very costly). And we are going Chinese...

So all round us we are living with people with very serious air power ...it means Nbi is a sitting duck if our air defences are not upto the task. Plus our neighbours have more uniformed men...clearly we need a technological advantage to counter this.

There is a quiet arms race going on quietly within the region even in artillery power.

I hope our military planners are not sleeping. Kenya is the regional superpower and her investments are worth protecting at all costs. We have a neighbour with proven expansionist ambitions and when they start affording such dangerous toys as the Su-30 the geo-political balance in the region changes kabisaaa to our detriment..

The 45b kshs vote given to defence at last budget is the amt the military needs every yr for the next 5yrs or so so that we modernize our forces with latest technology (to counter our shortfall in numbers).
We don't have to buy expensive U.S. F-whateve models as there are more advanced fighters in the market such as the Swedish Gripen operated by S.A.

But make no mistake: we need to modernise, and fast.
The last time we did so majorly was during kenyatta's time.

simonkabz
#3 Posted : Friday, May 21, 2010 5:10:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
True true Intel, kenyattas time. Im left speechless whenever so many kenyans complain of a heavy military budget, without even a speck of effort to check on our neighbour's armoury....The neighbouring forces r swelling n heavily equipped....the prezzo should have a very DIRECT influence on the military procurements, just like Onyatto was. You dont wait till u r dying of hunger to go buy a sufuria. I have come to make a very unfortunate conclusion on educated kenyans, we are mere DREAMERS, sad but I think our potential enemies know this all too well. Im proud 2b a kenyan LOL!
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
Jaina
#4 Posted : Friday, May 21, 2010 7:10:24 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/13/2008
Posts: 558
Kenyan neighbours havent started to be hostile now. They have always been and will continue to be. Yet majority of our armed forces have retired from armed forces without participating in any combat. No major hostility since indepedence.

Its also important to note that Kenya is the diplomatic hub of the region as well. Hosting UNEP (Only one in Africa) comes with some degree of responsibility as well as benefits. Most of the western countries have their regional embassies in Nairobi.

However this doesnt mean we dont need to mordernise. We should, but the Vice of corruption is deep rooted in the DOD procurement.
mlefu
#5 Posted : Friday, May 21, 2010 7:50:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/11/2007
Posts: 1,680
Location: nairobi
Quote:
when i was young boy growin up in august town
we ate from the same pot we were idlings all around
from corner to colour and corner
from rockers to jungle kentyre
rising to dreadhieghts and river all around
and then the footbal ground became my battlefield
and my life was so surreal
people were fallin all around
but jah helped me to stand my ground
Only Jah, Only Jah Coud've Helped me to stand my ground


on the DOD issue. point noted and i will make sure its investigated.
masukuma
#6 Posted : Saturday, May 22, 2010 10:39:24 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
Its about the waters of the Nile. Flexing muscles before Egypt decides to strike.
imagine striking Aswan High dam is Egypt launches a war?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Intelligentsia
#7 Posted : Saturday, May 22, 2010 11:41:07 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
Jaina wrote:
Kenyan neighbours havent started to be hostile now. They have always been and will continue to be. Yet majority of our armed forces have retired from armed forces without participating in any combat. No major hostility since indepedence.


@Jaina, generally true although there are a number of military ops that take place within & slightly beyond our boundaries but never reach the public ear because of their highly classified nature.

The shifta war must rank as one of our fairly major military ops since independence.

Note having a strong military is a strong deterrence, and this is actually cheaper than a full-scale war because the deterrence can be built gradually over years thus not straining your resources. But when military hostilities break out - all the country's resources are channeled to the war effort.
simonkabz
#8 Posted : Saturday, May 07, 2011 4:26:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Ugandan parliament approved a US$ 740m budget for the purchase of military hardware, including 8 Su30 MK2.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
Gordon Gekko
#9 Posted : Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:58:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
I hold the view that we are well protected from external threats by the US through AFRICOM and by the UK via the outfit that 'trains' in Nanyuki and BATUK in Kahawa.
Yes these guys look after their interests first, but our interests converge when there is external aggression. Otherwise why would the US not give approval for us to get better equipment than the tigers (F5)? What will match the Sukhoi 30 anyway? I suspect Grippen as suggested will not, neither would the French mirage. The UK long lost air superiority so that leaves US craft, which we can't get a license to buy - remember even the second hand F5s from Jordan took quite a bit of doing and corruption to acquire. If anything I hear they are duds.
bkismat
#10 Posted : Saturday, May 07, 2011 10:25:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/23/2009
Posts: 2,375
Air Superiority my foot while Turkanas are being slaughtered as a rite of passage by the Merilles of Ethiopia and Museveni invades Kenyan Islands on L.Victoria like I change my ngothas and the Al Shabaab rag tag militias talk down to our military like thy have no balls.The Kenyan Military should solve these before thinking about air superiority.
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...
-Mark Twain
simonkabz
#11 Posted : Saturday, May 07, 2011 10:50:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
@gg, nice analysis. Quite a tricky situation that can easily trigger a regional arms contest amid serious basic challenges like poverty, energy crisis, minimal developmental expenditure n famine. @bk, I feel you are contradicting yourself.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
nostoppingthis
#12 Posted : Monday, May 09, 2011 8:06:16 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/24/2009
Posts: 5,909
Location: Nairobi
I have noted with concern the way UG goes about dominating Kenyans, and it looks like it was planned long time ago...the day Uganda sent military to L. Victoria and Baks did NOTHING!! I realised that they may be superior to us, and Baks knows that...the conspiracy theory was that M7 could do anything, otherwise he would expose some contribution during 2007/2008....he had arm-twisted our prezzo
UG has now began dominating us in football, and even one of the long distance running....our dominance is threatened! Our military guys need to go back to the drawing board, especially with the potential enemies superiority increasing by the day...UG military is involved in Somalia, and supposedly have more military men than Kenya...they are continuously "practicing" while in Mogadishu, what are we doing?
Wa_ithaka
#13 Posted : Monday, May 09, 2011 8:17:17 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/7/2010
Posts: 1,279
Location: nbi
I think some of us need to wake up and smell the coffee beans. Jest saying.
Ug will not take Kenya on in a war anytime soon.
We need to cut this "enemies in the dark" BS, cut military spending and switch it to productive activities like eh
-make sure we feed ourselves
-create R&D greenfields into cheap solar power utilisation; variety of drought resistant products
-put the infrastructure in place (expand JKIA, Wilson, county airports; electricity; water supply)to turn Nairobi into the financial hub of Africa
-put money into our health services
-turn Kenya into the ICT hub of Africa.

After we are done with the above, maybe we can look at military spending.
Priorities first then luxuries thereafter
The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
nostoppingthis
#14 Posted : Monday, May 09, 2011 8:19:58 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/24/2009
Posts: 5,909
Location: Nairobi
@Wabushes, no one refutes that, but security is paramount, you can build all that, and it is bombed in a day
simonkabz
#15 Posted : Monday, May 09, 2011 9:25:57 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
@wa-bushes, of course that is the correct, best strategy, if it is Kikwete who procured them weapons. It is one thing for france/UK to own nuclear weapons; bt a different ball game in totality were Gaddafi to own the same!
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
Burning Spear
#16 Posted : Monday, May 09, 2011 9:29:36 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 1,139
nostoppingthis wrote:
I have noted with concern the way UG goes about dominating Kenyans, and it looks like it was planned long time ago...the day Uganda sent military to L. Victoria and Baks did NOTHING!! I realised that they may be superior to us, and Baks knows that...the conspiracy theory was that M7 could do anything, otherwise he would expose some contribution during 2007/2008....he had arm-twisted our prezzo
UG has now began dominating us in football, and even one of the long distance running....our dominance is threatened! Our military guys need to go back to the drawing board, especially with the potential enemies superiority increasing by the day...UG military is involved in Somalia, and supposedly have more military men than Kenya...they are continuously "practicing" while in Mogadishu, what are we doing?



While I agree to some of your statement,we also need to realise that our real enemies not UG and kenya wont go to war with UG anytime soon as long as they are located where they are in the africa map.They need us more that we need them and their economy depends on us
whether they discover oil or not.

I do agree that we need to heavily finance our military but this cannot be done when people are hungry and with the expensive constitution you people passed (I voted NO),it will be a tall order to move ahead with the scarce resources we have unless we also discover the black gold in Lake Turkana !!
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it". Malcolm X
simonkabz
#17 Posted : Monday, May 09, 2011 10:08:34 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Instruments of NATIONAL POWER:
1. Geographical
2. Population (size, will, unity?)
3. Political (includes diplomatic ties),
4. Economic
5. Military.

Well, I guess we are well cushioned by the first four...
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
Rahatupu
#18 Posted : Monday, May 09, 2011 10:22:05 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
Burning Spear wrote:
nostoppingthis wrote:
I have noted with concern the way UG goes about dominating Kenyans, and it looks like it was planned long time ago...the day Uganda sent military to L. Victoria and Baks did NOTHING!! I realised that they may be superior to us, and Baks knows that...the conspiracy theory was that M7 could do anything, otherwise he would expose some contribution during 2007/2008....he had arm-twisted our prezzo
UG has now began dominating us in football, and even one of the long distance running....our dominance is threatened! Our military guys need to go back to the drawing board, especially with the potential enemies superiority increasing by the day...UG military is involved in Somalia, and supposedly have more military men than Kenya...they are continuously "practicing" while in Mogadishu, what are we doing?



While I agree to some of your statement,we also need to realise that our real enemies not UG and kenya wont go to war with UG anytime soon as long as they are located where they are in the africa map.They need us more that we need them and their economy depends on us
whether they discover oil or not.

I do agree that we need to heavily finance our military but this cannot be done when people are hungry and with the expensive constitution you people passed (I voted NO),it will be a tall order to move ahead with the scarce resources we have unless we also discover the black gold in Lake Turkana !!
.

@Burning, we need Ugandans just as much as they need us, they are after all our largest trading partners. We cannot hold them hostage over the Mombasa, did you know that it takes far less days to transport a container from Port Elizabeth/Durban to Kampala than Msa-Kampala? The South Africans are aggressively wooing Ug to use Durban to export its oil. That we must invest heavily in our military cannot be gainsaid. We have a very thin military that could not decisively prevent the escalation of violence during the PEV period.

What must be done?

1. Mass recruitment into the military we need over 100,000 men and women. Ethiopia has the largest numbers in the region.
2. Modernize or military especially on the technological front.
3. Take a more proactive even confrontational approach in regional security matters e.g Somalia.
4. Project Kenya as a regional power not only economically but also militarily.
Intelligentsia
#19 Posted : Monday, May 09, 2011 11:35:07 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
@Rahatupu,
they are modernising.Quietly.
@Simonkabz, I believe some of the Sukhoi's have already been delivered; M7 arm-twisted the Ug. Parliment into rubber-stamping the very inflated purchases of these 4th generation fighters.
It will be violating Kenyan airspace but I don't put it beyond M7 to send the fighters travelling at Mach 2-plus streaking across Kenyan terriory to run sorties against Al-Shabaab in support of since Ug troops in AMISOM in Somalia who can now be able to call in air cover...
BTW, a Sukhoi such as this costs about USD 54m (say KShs 4.5b at KShs/USD 83)enough to pay for our Free Prim. Edu budget for a year...ha!

According to the latest data from the Stockholm Institute of International Peace Research Institute annual database, and its Military Balance report, Kenya has the smallest army in the region:

Eritrea - has 201,750 troops
DR Congo -151,251
Ethiopia - 38,000
Sudan - 190,300
Uganda -45,000
Rwanda - 33,000
Tanzania - 27,000
KENYA - 24,000
Burundi at 17,000 (figures from Burundi, though, indicate its army is 29,000 strong).

Despite that, Kenya trumps all these countries in defence spending, at $735 million annually and rising. This is equivalent to 2.1 per cent of Kenya’s $35 billion GDP. Analysts say most of this money has gone to upgrading military capability — which was becoming obsolete — and force readiness ....

E.A's Quiet Arms Race.

http://www.theeastafrica...8/-/o3915fz/-/index.html
sanity
#20 Posted : Monday, May 09, 2011 11:53:25 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/24/2011
Posts: 407
Location: Nairobi,Kenya
if those figures quoted are true,then for sure our military strategist are sound asleep.the fact that our past ministers of defence included the likes of njenga wananinchi karume,shows the seriousness of the situation.However one should note that despite the small number,our military is the most proffesional in the region.I have had the opportunity of visiting some military contingents in one peacekeeping mission and I can tell you our military contigent outshone the rest in terms of displine and proffesionalism
Hope is not a strategy
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