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Is stock trading harmful to the economy?
Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 625
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Wouldn't the country be better of if a lot of smart people who spend their time and money speculating on the stock market used those resources to actually create businesses and employment? Isn't it likely that more wealth would be generated that way? Wouldn't the gurus here on Wazua probably generate more wealth building businesses that tracking the ticker?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/2/2006 Posts: 1,206 Location: Nairobi
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Nop.Some gurus here cannot run a business while some business leaders have no idea how the stock market works.Theres a perfect balance out there. Formally employed people often live their employers' dream & forget about their own.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/1/2010 Posts: 272 Location: Nairobi
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Co-signed bird_man wrote:Nop.Some gurus here cannot run a business while some business leaders have no idea how the stock market works.Theres a perfect balance out there. The harder you work, the luckier you get
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,908
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Think IPO, Rights Issue, Dividends, Bond & their contribution to the economy In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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mv_ufanisi wrote:Wouldn't the country be better of if a lot of smart people who spend their time and money speculating on the stock market used those resources to actually create businesses and employment? Isn't it likely that more wealth would be generated that way? Wouldn't the gurus here on Wazua probably generate more wealth building businesses that tracking the ticker? You have a point. Many people think they know how to trade stocks but are just speculators. Those people should look for other ventures. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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I thot the purpose of the bourse is to raise funds? Businesses simply raise funds and traders try to "profit" from it. Simple. So if everyone went ahead and started their own KCB, would there be business? Another thing, people are different, there are those who are good starters - they can manage start-ups quite well, some of them cant handle big business thats why they sell their shares to the highest bidder who can take it to the next level. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/26/2012 Posts: 1,182
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mv_ufanisi wrote:Wouldn't the country be better of if a lot of smart people who spend their time and money speculating on the stock market used those resources to actually create businesses and employment? Isn't it likely that more wealth would be generated that way? Wouldn't the gurus here on Wazua probably generate more wealth building businesses that tracking the ticker? Kila nyani na starehe zake!
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 625
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bird_man wrote:Nop.Some gurus here cannot run a business while some business leaders have no idea how the stock market works.Theres a perfect balance out there. The truth is at the stage of economic development that Africa is in - there is a greater need for business builders than for stock speculators. We already have an very small number of stocks on the NSE - we need entrepreneurs to grow businesses from scratch. There's lots of good brains being lost in stock "investment" and speculation which would be better put to use. This is also a big problem affecting the US for example where the smartest people stopped going to work for companies that produce things and create value but now head over to Wall Street to play around with tickers but not really add much value.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 625
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murchr wrote:I thot the purpose of the bourse is to raise funds? Businesses simply raise funds and traders try to "profit" from it. Simple. So if everyone went ahead and started their own KCB, would there be business?
Another thing, people are different, there are those who are good starters - they can manage start-ups quite well, some of them cant handle big business thats why they sell their shares to the highest bidder who can take it to the next level. Well I'm specifically referring to the fact that a majority of players here in Wazua for example are mostly watching for a way to make quick profits on companies. They'll do some research on companies and decide that this company will do better this year and so I'll put my money there. If you're smart, its probably easy money. All I'm saying is that there's likely a lot of brains going to waste here because the truth is we are not really adding much value to the economy as a whole in terms of productive use of resources and skills gained.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 625
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Stock trading is like playing a game of poker. It's not a value adding activity per se.
Value adding activity would be taking your money and starting a business that actually delivers value to the economy and perhaps eventually bringing that business to the public markets.
That means that you create jobs, create products/services and gain new skills which is what leads to true wealth generation for the country as a whole.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 625
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bird_man wrote:Nop.Some gurus here cannot run a business while some business leaders have no idea how the stock market works.Theres a perfect balance out there. It's a matter of priorities. For example, it used to be that in the US a lot of the smart people would join a company like GE or IBM where they'd be involved in helping create products and services for the economy. Now most of the smart guys immediately go to Wall Street where they spent all their time structuring complex derivatives which don't really add much value. The result is that US competitiveness has gone down while banking has become less of an enabler but more of a source of problems. All I'm saying is that that could be true for Kenya as well. And as a cautionary tale, that the best way to create real lasting wealth is to provide products and services that improve people's lives.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/1/2010 Posts: 272 Location: Nairobi
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mv_ufanisi wrote:bird_man wrote:Nop.Some gurus here cannot run a business while some business leaders have no idea how the stock market works.Theres a perfect balance out there. The truth is at the stage of economic development that Africa is in - there is a greater need for business builders than for stock speculators. We already have an very small number of stocks on the NSE - we need entrepreneurs to grow businesses from scratch. There's lots of good brains being lost in stock "investment" and speculation which would be better put to use. This is also a big problem affecting the US for example where the smartest people stopped going to work for companies that produce things and create value but now head over to Wall Street to play around with tickers but not really add much value. What is the proportion of 'speculators' vis-à-vis 'business builders'? The harder you work, the luckier you get
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 625
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murchr wrote:I thot the purpose of the bourse is to raise funds? Businesses simply raise funds and traders try to "profit" from it. Simple. So if everyone went ahead and started their own KCB, would there be business?
Another thing, people are different, there are those who are good starters - they can manage start-ups quite well, some of them cant handle big business thats why they sell their shares to the highest bidder who can take it to the next level. I'm saying that the number of business ventures per capita in Kenya is quite low. I'm not saying that everyone should start a KCB, I'm just saying that we shouldn't wait for Americans or Israelis to come here and start restaurants for example (Java & Art Cafe). There's tremendous opportunity in this market or Africa in general to start ventures that create value but unfortunately most of the few Africans with money prefer to park it in the stock market, idle land speculation or treasury bonds.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/10/2010 Posts: 1,001 Location: River Road
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mv_ufanisi wrote:Wouldn't the country be better of if a lot of smart people who spend their time and money speculating on the stock market used those resources to actually create businesses and employment? Isn't it likely that more wealth would be generated that way? Wouldn't the gurus here on Wazua probably generate more wealth building businesses that tracking the ticker? when traders speculate and give a price to stocks they are giving a price to the efforts of the owners and the owners can then measure their wealth. in the same way a farmer will till his land, plant crops and then take the produce to the market. If there were no traders in the market how would the farmer know the true worth of his wealth? Are you saying that the traders at the market should not be there and should instead become farmers?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/22/2011 Posts: 1,325
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If you invest in the market and make some profits, which allow you to employ a couple of people, you have added value to society. Adding value does not have to be through doing business, though I do agree with you that entrepreneurship should be encouraged. People can do both, investing in stock market and entrepreneurship, they don't have to be mutually exclusive.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2010 Posts: 5,040
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@mv_ufanisi. Your thinking out of the box and you are correct on all counts. I think that the number of the people who invest in stocks is not that high, esp actively. I think the number of people starting business is high. I think wazua just has a very high concentration of the active stock investors. And yes, it would be worrying if most ppl were justing picking stocks and not starting businesses The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/1/2010 Posts: 272 Location: Nairobi
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mv_ufanisi wrote:murchr wrote:I thot the purpose of the bourse is to raise funds? Businesses simply raise funds and traders try to "profit" from it. Simple. So if everyone went ahead and started their own KCB, would there be business?
Another thing, people are different, there are those who are good starters - they can manage start-ups quite well, some of them cant handle big business thats why they sell their shares to the highest bidder who can take it to the next level. I'm saying that the number of business ventures per capita in Kenya is quite low. I'm not saying that everyone should start a KCB, I'm just saying that we shouldn't wait for Americans or Israelis to come here and start restaurants for example (Java & Art Cafe). There's tremendous opportunity in this market or Africa in general to start ventures that create value but unfortunately most of the few Africans with money prefer to park it in the stock market, idle land speculation or treasury bonds. 1. What is the business ventures per capita in Kenya? 2. This statement implies most restaurant owners in Kenya are foreigners The harder you work, the luckier you get
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 625
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kryptonite wrote:mv_ufanisi wrote:murchr wrote:I thot the purpose of the bourse is to raise funds? Businesses simply raise funds and traders try to "profit" from it. Simple. So if everyone went ahead and started their own KCB, would there be business?
Another thing, people are different, there are those who are good starters - they can manage start-ups quite well, some of them cant handle big business thats why they sell their shares to the highest bidder who can take it to the next level. I'm saying that the number of business ventures per capita in Kenya is quite low. I'm not saying that everyone should start a KCB, I'm just saying that we shouldn't wait for Americans or Israelis to come here and start restaurants for example (Java & Art Cafe). There's tremendous opportunity in this market or Africa in general to start ventures that create value but unfortunately most of the few Africans with money prefer to park it in the stock market, idle land speculation or treasury bonds. 1. What is the business ventures per capita in Kenya? 2. This statement implies most restaurant owners in Kenya are foreigners Which are the "best" restaurants in Kenya that are Kenyan owned? 1. Java 2. Art Cafe 3. Osteria 4. Zen Garden 5. Brew Bistro 6. Onami 7. Furusato 8. Mediterraneo 9. Talisman 10. Trattoria
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/13/2009 Posts: 36
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For me it's a method of saving money. It's better I gain or loose money trying to get money instead of it lying stagnant In a bank. I bet the bank would also play around with my money. And not everyone is in kenya to manage his business.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/1/2010 Posts: 272 Location: Nairobi
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mv_ufanisi wrote:kryptonite wrote:mv_ufanisi wrote:murchr wrote:I thot the purpose of the bourse is to raise funds? Businesses simply raise funds and traders try to "profit" from it. Simple. So if everyone went ahead and started their own KCB, would there be business?
Another thing, people are different, there are those who are good starters - they can manage start-ups quite well, some of them cant handle big business thats why they sell their shares to the highest bidder who can take it to the next level. I'm saying that the number of business ventures per capita in Kenya is quite low. I'm not saying that everyone should start a KCB, I'm just saying that we shouldn't wait for Americans or Israelis to come here and start restaurants for example (Java & Art Cafe). There's tremendous opportunity in this market or Africa in general to start ventures that create value but unfortunately most of the few Africans with money prefer to park it in the stock market, idle land speculation or treasury bonds. 1. What is the business ventures per capita in Kenya? 2. This statement implies most restaurant owners in Kenya are foreigners Which are the "best" restaurants in Kenya that are Kenyan owned? 1. Java 2. Art Cafe 3. Osteria 4. Zen Garden 5. Brew Bistro 6. Onami 7. Furusato 8. Mediterraneo 9. Talisman 10. Trattoria 1. What is the business ventures per capita in Kenya? 2. What is the proportion of 'speculators' vis-à-vis 'business builders'? Nice list. All upmarket. I doubt they represent the majority of restaurant owners in Nairobi, forget Kenya. Just take a walk down River Road. And the estates. "Best" is relative from person to person. @mv_ufanisi, I get your argument. However, I think our bigger problem is brains and capital being wasted on import/export businesses and tenderpreneurship. I doubt the stock market is hoarding that many brains to create a serious shortage in the business world. Entrepreneurship is not for everyone, we need employees too The harder you work, the luckier you get
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