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Kenyan police force and our new progressive Constitution
Rank: Member Joined: 4/11/2007 Posts: 694
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I listened to Kiraithe yesterday and realized Kenyans are in for a long haul. For once I felt for him. Our new progressive Katiba is a poisoned chalice truth be told. Our Mboys don't want to be filmed using any force on these criminals. You can keep on blaming Rao and Baks' but things are elephant when it comes to security matters and the Constitution.  Wait until you get an inspector general who is not from any of the forces.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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@sheri The problem with the old kenya police is that they only way they solved issues was with the barrel of a gun. Ask them to investigate and they round up everyone including the cat and beat them up until they get a "confession". Things have changed. That is true. But the cops have decided to remain the same. But blaming a constitution for your being inept at curbing crimes, inept at curbing riots, inept at curbing Tana, inept in all matters except making crazy statements on TV is rather rather rather inept.The problem with Kenya is security. The people in charge of security are in the police. The people in charge of the police are.......... Whatever you fill the blanks with is the problem with Kenya. If we get an inpector general from the current police leadership, I'm one of those that believe that, Kenya will rot from the inside. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,330 Location: Masada
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sheri wrote:I listened to Kiraithe yesterday and realized Kenyans are in for a long haul. For once I felt for him. Our new progressive Katiba is a poisoned chalice truth be told. O ur Mboys don't want to be filmed using any force on these criminals. You can keep on blaming Rao and Baks' but things are elephant when it comes to security matters and the Constitution.  Wait until you get an inspector general who is not from any of the forces. Then they should consider laying ambush to the bandits at night, since they were attacked in the dead of the night! Portfolio: Sold You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/25/2011 Posts: 368 Location: Nairobi
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@Alma. If you once listened to deputy police spokesman, on this topic you would know where the problem is. I almost thought he would be sacked because of the things he said.
He is himself an investigator but he actually said they do not have the tools. He actually admitted that they are using just the rule of thumb in investigations. He said what they are doing is like ploughing a 20 hectare farm with a piece of wood. He challeged citizens on how much they invest in the police through the government.
He admitted that the government has never invested in him since he graduated from Police College. He mentioned the tools developed government's use on a day to day basis and especially to track people like in USA and UK and he seemed quite informed. But if also admitted that if we try to use such tools in Kenya, we will start shouting ...our privacy....our privacy.
He also admitted that the taking of Ali to the ICC has affected the commanders and they are hesitant to issue firm orders to the police and this may explain why the police were complaining that they were not getting firm orders from their superiors especially during the Mombasa riots. He also mentioned examples like a police car has a daily allocation of I think 11 or 16 litres per day...I do not remember. And that is why police at times ask you to pay for the fuel if the daily limit has been used up. He asked, "Do you expect police to pay from their pocket"
The police came from the society and it is upon the society to invest in them to make them better. Having an inspector general from outside the police is not the solution, it is just like changing the KACC bosses without empowering the institution. By the way there are learned fellows in the police force who knows what should be done but they do not have the tools. I would still go for an inspector general from the police if the selection process was open and they go for the best.
I wish that video was recorded, you would understand where the problem is and not just blame the police.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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the former president mentioned that this whole police reform should be placed on hold until the next elections - considering what happened to Major Ali, you get the feeling no cop wants to be caught in the same mess. I doubt if anyone would have dared kill a cop or burn down a police post in the past, even the community would not tolerate that because of what would happen. I believe that fear is required when it comes to the police especially the GSU and APs.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Impunity wrote:sheri wrote:I listened to Kiraithe yesterday and realized Kenyans are in for a long haul. For once I felt for him. Our new progressive Katiba is a poisoned chalice truth be told. O ur Mboys don't want to be filmed using any force on these criminals. You can keep on blaming Rao and Baks' but things are elephant when it comes to security matters and the Constitution.  Wait until you get an inspector general who is not from any of the forces. Then they should consider laying ambush to the bandits at night, since they were attacked in the dead of the night! Then the next morning, the useless Kenya human rights commission will be giving orders to the DPP to either prosecute or take them to the hague "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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@Tassia is that the new spin now? That the Police are the victims? Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Mbona hii constitution haijamaliza TKK!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/25/2011 Posts: 368 Location: Nairobi
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[quote=alma]@Tassia is that the new spin now?
That the Police are the victims?
[/quote
Yes, they are if that what you want to hear. Before you blame them, get all the facts from them and also from treasury about their annual budget proposals on specific important equipments necessary for their work and whether theses have been granted.
Is it wrong for the deputy police spokesman to say they measure poorly on investigations because of poor funding. Do you want the police to pay for these equipments from their pockets, how much can you do a task without the right tools. When criminals have become sophisticated the police must up the game and it is not by getting an inspector general from outside the police. We must equip the police.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,330 Location: Masada
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McReggae wrote:Mbona hii constitution haijamaliza TKK!!! It has only changed the meaning of the last "K". KIKUBWA. Portfolio: Sold You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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@Tassia there is a legal term that says something to do with coming with clean hands or something to that nature. Let's be honest, the police are considered in some quarters as a criminal outfit in itself. They don't inspire confidence in anyone but themselves. Why should Kenyans even debate "would you prefer to meet a policeman or a thug at night". A long time ago this force lost all credibility in the country. When they would go on TV and lie with a straight face over and over again. A police force with no credibility is no police force. Even if we gave them helicopter gunships and all of them a mansion and 3 cars, we would never trust them to do the right thing. The problem with the police in Kenya is not lack of facilities, it is lack of confidence from the very people they are supposed to be protecting. Once you cops get that in your head, then you will move forward. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/25/2012 Posts: 261
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alma wrote:@sheri
The problem with the old kenya police is that they only way they solved issues was with the barrel of a gun. Ask them to investigate and they round up everyone including the cat and beat them up until they get a "confession".
Things have changed. That is true. But the cops have decided to remain the same.
But blaming a constitution for your being inept at curbing crimes, inept at curbing riots, inept at curbing Tana, inept in all matters except making crazy statements on TV is rather rather rather inept.
The problem with Kenya is security. The people in charge of security are in the police. The people in charge of the police are..........
Whatever you fill the blanks with is the problem with Kenya.
If we get an inpector general from the current police leadership, I'm one of those that believe that, Kenya will rot from the inside. @alma, You still live under the illusion that Kenya is USA or Britain. If I had an organization, i cant hire you even in Team leaders role for failure to open your eyes. You have tendencies to follow the populist opinion without thinking of the repercussions. This is Africa and one cannot solve riots,clashes without use of button, criminals must be maimed to incapacitate them otherwise they maim the innocent. This constitution made by activists for activists will haunt all Kenyans wherever they are.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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@abdul ok. I'll blame the constitution. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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alma wrote:@abdul ok. I'll blame the constitution. Lol.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/25/2010 Posts: 939 Location: Nai
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Guyz before blaming the police or the constitution or what else you can throw in talk to one of the senior police officer then a junior officer and understand what the hell is going on then come back and write your essays based of facts not theories.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/1/2008 Posts: 1,098
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abdulrahman wrote:alma wrote:@sheri
The problem with the old kenya police is that they only way they solved issues was with the barrel of a gun. Ask them to investigate and they round up everyone including the cat and beat them up until they get a "confession".
Things have changed. That is true. But the cops have decided to remain the same.
But blaming a constitution for your being inept at curbing crimes, inept at curbing riots, inept at curbing Tana, inept in all matters except making crazy statements on TV is rather rather rather inept.
The problem with Kenya is security. The people in charge of security are in the police. The people in charge of the police are..........
Whatever you fill the blanks with is the problem with Kenya.
If we get an inpector general from the current police leadership, I'm one of those that believe that, Kenya will rot from the inside. @alma, Y ou still live under the illusion that Kenya is USA or Britain. If I had an organization, i cant hire you even in Team leaders role for failure to open your eyes. You have tendencies to follow the populist opinion without thinking of the repercussions. This is Africa and one cannot solve riots,clashes without use of button, criminals must be maimed to incapacitate them otherwise they maim the innocent. This constitution made by activists for activists will haunt all Kenyans wherever they are. There you go! Our constitution is modelled to be too liberal like the USA's. But we are in Africa and still exercising our primitive energy. We will be following the rains with our herds of animals crossing through other peoples lands with a loaded G3 resting on our shoulders to be used at the least of provocation. And their shall be revenge when that happens. Our primitive politicians will also be taking advantage of our lifestyles for their political gains. Our situation is so discombobulated
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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I would like you to walk on other people's lands with a loaded G3 resting on your shoulder and use it in the least provocation, in the state of guns called Texas. Therein will be your answer as to exactly how liberal the US constitution is. Heck do what the Kenya police do, give foreigners the rank of Deputy Commissioner and let them shoot their way out of Gatwick airport and go home. We shall see how liberal the brits who don't carry firearms are with you. While at it, bribe the gay liberal state trooper in Massachussets with 50 bob to avoid being given a ticket for not having a seatbelt in your own car. There is cheap talk then there is actual reality. The reality in Kenya is that few Kenyans would go report a case to a policeman lest they are arrested "to help with investigations". In the meantime, lets blame the constitution, liberals, human rights advocates, Africa, our situation, and even the weather. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/1/2008 Posts: 834
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alma wrote:@sheri
The problem with the old kenya police is that they only way they solved issues was with the barrel of a gun. Ask them to investigate and they round up everyone including the cat and beat them up until they get a "confession".
Things have changed. That is true. But the cops have decided to remain the same.
But blaming a constitution for your being inept at curbing crimes, inept at curbing riots, inept at curbing Tana, inept in all matters except making crazy statements on TV is rather rather rather inept.
The problem with Kenya is security. The people in charge of security are in the police. The people in charge of the police are..........
Whatever you fill the blanks with is the problem with Kenya.
If we get an inpector general from the current police leadership, I'm one of those that believe that, Kenya will rot from the inside. well said @alma couldn't agree more! the police are still trained using the same old manuals the white man left us!! training is designed to protect the ruling elite from the masses, not to protect the masses. they are trained to take instructions from above, not to question them,not to think.... common sense tells me that if you deal adequately with EACH AND EVERY petty crime reported (not just those related to politicians and big shots) , investigate it thoroughly, take and keep records, while non-partisan AND NOT TAKING BRIBES....then you will have avoided and prevented big crimes in the future. PETTY THIEVES GRADUATE TO MENACING GANGSTERS WITH TIME!!! THIS CAN ONLY WORK IF THEY CLEAN HOUSE - GET RID OF ROTTEN APPLES!!! IT'S SAD TO COME TO A REALIZATION THAT THE GUN THAT KILLS ONE OF YOUR OWN ACTUALLY BELONGS TO YOU!!! If you are going to be thinking only one thing, you might as well be thinking big. -Donald J . Trump
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/7/2010 Posts: 2,148 Location: elderville
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tassia wrote:@Alma. If you once listened to deputy police spokesman, on this topic you would know where the problem is. I almost thought he would be sacked because of the things he said.
He is himself an investigator but he actually said they do not have the tools. He actually admitted that they are using just the rule of thumb in investigations. He said what they are doing is like ploughing a 20 hectare farm with a piece of wood. He challeged citizens on how much they invest in the police through the government.
He admitted that the government has never invested in him since he graduated from Police College. He mentioned the tools developed government's use on a day to day basis and especially to track people like in USA and UK and he seemed quite informed. But if also admitted that if we try to use such tools in Kenya, we will start shouting ...our privacy....our privacy.
He also admitted that the taking of Ali to the ICC has affected the commanders and they are hesitant to issue firm orders to the police and this may explain why the police were complaining that they were not getting firm orders from their superiors especially during the Mombasa riots. He also mentioned examples like a police car has a daily allocation of I think 11 or 16 litres per day...I do not remember. And that is why police at times ask you to pay for the fuel if the daily limit has been used up. He asked, "Do you expect police to pay from their pocket"
The police came from the society and it is upon the society to invest in them to make them better. Having an inspector general from outside the police is not the solution, it is just like changing the KACC bosses without empowering the institution. By the way there are learned fellows in the police force who knows what should be done but they do not have the tools. I would still go for an inspector general from the police if the selection process was open and they go for the best.
I wish that video was recorded, you would understand where the problem is and not just blame the police.
So after our taxes are allocated to the police and the same is either mismanaged or 'eaten' it is still the society's problem that the government or the Kenya police do not know how to invest our taxes in providing them with tools? He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
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