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Nigeria elections - shame on Kenya, CIV, Zimbabwe, Uganda
Rank: Elder Joined: 11/13/2008 Posts: 1,565
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Africa's most populous state is about to show its mettle as a TRUE democracy that can transition in 12 years from a military state to a civilian state with relatively calm and transparent elections and with candidates that have REAL development agendas....
President Goodluck Jonathan appears to have a decent lead after Saturday's polls...
This certainly will say a lot about the trends that have been set elsewhere, where losers of rigged or disputed elections, seek to wrest power from legitimate winners...where outright winners have to resort to the law of the barrel of the gun...
We need this outcome to help punctuate the travesties we have seen in some countries...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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boss, you are so naive! of course elections that are one sided are considered "free and fair!" like kenya's 2002 election, the 2 referendums. the issue is - what happens when its too close to call? Nigeria is far from being a true democracy, a true democracy is where people respect the institutions of and that cannot be detected from a one sided win! the only test is if Goodluck johnson had 49% and had spent a load of cash in the campaign and the some other fellow had 51% in a second round voting and people accepted the electoral commission's decision! that would be a TRUE DEMOCRACY! bila hiyo, unajidanganya! politics in africa is too highstaked. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/13/2009 Posts: 1,950 Location: in kenya
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FLASH: Northern post-election riots spreads to Yobe State. Youths are attacking Southerners and burning their shops/houses and churches. '......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/13/2008 Posts: 1,565
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masukuma wrote:boss, you are so naive! of course elections that are one sided are considered "free and fair!" like kenya's 2002 election, the 2 referendums. the issue is - what happens when its too close to call? Nigeria is far from being a true democracy, a true democracy is where people respect the institutions of and that cannot be detected from a one sided win! the only test is if Goodluck johnson had 49% and had spent a load of cash in the campaign and the some other fellow had 51% in a second round voting and people accepted the electoral commission's decision! that would be a TRUE DEMOCRACY! bila hiyo, unajidanganya! politics in africa is too highstaked. Ah, I see you are the breath of fresh air we all need...logic mired in "how it has always been" rather than seeking to rise to "what it should be". Naive or not, my friends and colleagues in Nigeria, who are on the ground and have been since the last election, concur that this is a win for democracy. So, feel free to foam at the mouth and pontificate about what you think true democracy is....even with a little bloodshed,,,it it a better model of democracy than we have in Kenya...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/13/2008 Posts: 1,565
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selah wrote:FLASH: Northern post-election riots spreads to Yobe State. Youths are attacking Southerners and burning their shops/houses and churches. unfortunate that...but unlikely to grow into a full conflict...all it says is they have some misguided, unemployed youth...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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@Djinn, when its one sided, its easy for everyone to call it, and people to claim its democracy (we were there in 2002 remember?) and thats not a test, the test is something like US election 2000. not a 70% win. p.s. democracy is not the opposition winning either, its the ability and maturity of the people of a country to accept results as given by the institution in place regardless of how bitter they are after all checks and balances systems in place and working. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/7/2007 Posts: 2,182
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@ masukuma has a good point djinn #validpoint LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/31/2008 Posts: 7,081 Location: Kenya
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Djinn wrote:Africa's most populous state is about to show its mettle as a TRUE democracy that can transition in 12 years from a military state to a civilian state with relatively calm and transparent elections and with candidates that have REAL development agendas....
President Goodluck Jonathan appears to have a decent lead after Saturday's polls...
This certainly will say a lot about the trends that have been set elsewhere, where losers of rigged or disputed elections, seek to wrest power from legitimate winners...where outright winners have to resort to the law of the barrel of the gun...
We need this outcome to help punctuate the travesties we have seen in some countries... ...too early to say...Violence has started in the North...
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 6/8/2010 Posts: 1,729
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And still 99.63% for JONA in one polling station??????? Reminds me of some polling stations in othumo Life is an endless adventure
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/13/2008 Posts: 558
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Democracy is gaining ground in nigeria yes. However: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13107867
Riots galore.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/31/2008 Posts: 1,076
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[quote=masukuma]boss, you are so naive! of course elections that are one sided are considered "free and fair!" like kenya's 2002 election, the 2 referendums. the issue is - what happens when its too close to call? Nigeria is far from being a true democracy, a true democracy is where people respect the institutions of and that cannot be detected from a one sided win! the only test is if Goodluck johnson had 49% and had spent a load of cash in the campaign and the some other fellow had 51% in a second round voting and people accepted the electoral commission's decision! that would be a TRUE DEMOCRACY! bila hiyo, unajidanganya! politics in africa is too highstaked.[/quote So true. Cant add anything. Dunia ni msongamano..
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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negative ethnicity is the biggest problem in Africa. Ghana was able to have peaceful polls though.
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/23/2009 Posts: 526
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One major problem is that the runner up is always reluctant to concede defeat.If the former Ivorian president, or even Tinga himself or MK conceded defeat and probably say that he will work with the president elect then that would signal the dawn of democracy. The main problem with our leaders across the divide is that none can be beaten, this fans their supporters anger and the inevitable happens.God help our leaders to accept defeat as part of life esp where the margin is narrow. Lets watch as the situation unfolds.I pray that peace prevails rather than the shame visited upon the hapless citizens in the name of fighting for our preferred candidate. Accept no one's definition of your life; define your life.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/11/2008 Posts: 2,306
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@Djinn, you spoke too soon ma broda!! Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/13/2008 Posts: 1,565
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No, I do not think I have spoken to soon. If I may paraphrase one of the observers...its not the outcome rather the process leading to it.
Anyone saying that true democracy means a 49-51 situation...well...so when its 60-40 its a travesty? C'mon, get real!
We have to face the fact that the Muslims are a minority - you cannot change the math there - its a given. Some muslims voted for Goodluck.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/13/2008 Posts: 1,565
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and just to clarify, i wrote "relatively calm and transparent elections" - for those keen on using numbers, would you like to offer a formula to show how violent their outcome is?
perhaps deaths per capita? Kenya saw 1000 dead for a population of 40 million....so I suppose if Nigeria saw 3000 dead for a population of 150 million then its still a better election?
Lets not go back to the old way of thinking. I am not alone is asserting that this is Nigeria best election and Jonathan Goodluck IS a GREAT candidate. I have been to Nigeria (Lagos and Abuja) about 10 times in the last 12 months and have been gauging the mood on the ground. Goodluck has support both in the North and the South. The only reason we cannot have a 48-52 situation is because he is the only candidate with a very very broad agenda for ALL Nigerians. he is without certain inhibitions if you like...
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 182 Location: Kenya
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Djinn wrote:and just to clarify, i wrote "relatively calm and transparent elections" - for those keen on using numbers, would you like to offer a formula to show how violent their outcome is?
perhaps deaths per capita? Kenya saw 1000 dead for a population of 40 million....so I suppose if Nigeria saw 3000 dead for a population of 150 million then its still a better election?
Lets not go back to the old way of thinking. I am not alone is asserting that this is Nigeria best election and Jonathan Goodluck IS a GREAT candidate. I have been to Nigeria (Lagos and Abuja) about 10 times in the last 12 months and have been gauging the mood on the ground. Goodluck has support both in the North and the South. The only reason we cannot have a 48-52 situation is because he is the only candidate with a very very broad agenda for ALL Nigerians. he is without certain inhibitions if you like...
I disagree. Even if it's one death of a person through violence, that's a bad election.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/13/2008 Posts: 1,565
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gohill wrote:Djinn wrote:and just to clarify, i wrote "relatively calm and transparent elections" - for those keen on using numbers, would you like to offer a formula to show how violent their outcome is?
perhaps deaths per capita? Kenya saw 1000 dead for a population of 40 million....so I suppose if Nigeria saw 3000 dead for a population of 150 million then its still a better election?
Lets not go back to the old way of thinking. I am not alone is asserting that this is Nigeria best election and Jonathan Goodluck IS a GREAT candidate. I have been to Nigeria (Lagos and Abuja) about 10 times in the last 12 months and have been gauging the mood on the ground. Goodluck has support both in the North and the South. The only reason we cannot have a 48-52 situation is because he is the only candidate with a very very broad agenda for ALL Nigerians. he is without certain inhibitions if you like...
I disagree. Even if it's one death of a person through violence, that's a bad election. But not necessarily an undemocratic one....there will always be fire brands who cannot accept defeat and will foment disquiet even if its the gesture of the vanquished. I am not for violence...but it will happen.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Djinn, What's your comparison between Nigeria's 2011 polls and kenya's 2002 polls....any parrallels???? ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/13/2009 Posts: 1,950 Location: in kenya
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Democracy is not the absence of violence but I believe its the public trust on institutions. Nigeria violence will obviously be concentrated on the muslim north since they are angry a Christian is winning in an election where a gentleman's agreement[remember our own MOU ] dictates a Muslim be elected a president due to the rotation agreement. In the US we saw how Al-Gore and Bush had a tussle on florida election the supreme court had to intervene to calm the tension that was brewing. In africa the problem come when forming our institutions like in Kenya we dont have a credible justice system leave alone the legislature. '......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
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