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Kenyans’ obsession with owning property doesn’t always lead to a handsome reward
Seles83
#1 Posted : Monday, April 04, 2011 7:27:21 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 288
Location: OZ
Hi,

http://www.businessdaily...2/-/6qgbpr/-/index.html

For those who are keen to jump in Real Estate investment, the above BD article gives a whole new perspective in Real Estate investment in terms of capital gains...

I do agree with writer, but to be honest owning a house should be the ultimate goal and not a tool for capital appreciation. 100% and 95% mortgage financing should be discouraged at all costs, people should buy what they can afford not just because they can...

If the current situation is not arrested soon enough, Guys will be renting 20k per month, while the owner is repaying mortgage a 30 yr at 60k per month!!!!
More monies, more problems...
2012
#2 Posted : Monday, April 04, 2011 10:19:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
That's a very good 'reality check' article.
I have a friend who's returning for good from the states, he had 20m to invest and asked us where he should invest this money. I advised him to put it in the 30yr bond but he wanted something more immediate and that he can see so he's bought an apartment for 13m on Denis Prit hapo Alfajiri - Citizen and something in South B for 6m. 1m went to lawyers and other fees.
Now his rental income though are supposedly 65k and 19k respectively since one apartment is not occupied.
So, while the bond would have earned him 166k headachlessly every month, he will now earn 84k with + headaches per month. Anyway you never know, his might still be the better option with time.

BBI will solve it
:)
Seles83
#3 Posted : Monday, April 04, 2011 11:19:35 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 288
Location: OZ
What happened to Denis Prit appartment, no tenant or the guy bought it off the plan..
More monies, more problems...
Injere
#4 Posted : Monday, April 04, 2011 5:03:25 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/7/2010
Posts: 130
No offence meant but the article misses the point by a wide berth...start by looking at the how the return is calculated.I can only say the english is good.I rest my case.
mukiha
#5 Posted : Monday, April 04, 2011 5:17:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@Injere; the writer also misses the point that while inflation will eat away on the principal investment of the bond, the house will ride the inflation wave like surfer on a sea wave.... sometimes even overtaking it.....
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
young
#6 Posted : Monday, April 04, 2011 5:20:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2007
Posts: 2,037
Location: Lagos, Nigeria
The bottom line is one has to do a rethink of investing in real estate as a retailer by mortgage financing .

It does not pay because the rental income is always far lower than the monthly mortgage payment as the property prices appreciates faster than the rental income.

Besides the interest rate for mortgage is very high. Most cases for a mortgage loan of 5 Million ksh an investor is likely to pay back 12 Million Ksh or more over 15 years.

I do not subscribe to mortgage as a way of investing in real estate.

Also make no mistake about it, you CANNOT compare investing in real estate to bonds. In bonds the capital invested is static though the initial returns is higher but if you have your capital the value of your property will be increasing , so investing in real estate is better on the long term , as it is a hedge against inflation.
The wazua spirit as members is to educate and inform and learn from others within the limit of what we know in any chosen area irrespective of our differences in tribes, nationalities, etc. .
2012
#7 Posted : Monday, April 04, 2011 5:24:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
Seles83 wrote:
What happened to Denis Prit appartment, no tenant or the guy bought it off the plan..


At that time they were doing final touches which were deterring tenants from taking up the apartments and that area has quite a number of empty apartments competing. Also, most of them were unwilling to pay 65k and were offering 60k.

BBI will solve it
:)
mukiha
#8 Posted : Monday, April 04, 2011 5:43:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
young wrote:
The bottom line is one has to do a rethink of investing in real estate as a retailer by mortgage financing .

It does not pay because the rental income is always far lower than the monthly mortgage payment as the property prices appreciates faster than the rental income.

Besides the interest rate for mortgage is very high. Most cases for a mortgage loan of 5 Million ksh an investor is likely to pay back 12 Million Ksh or more over 15 years.

I do not subscribe to mortgage as a way of investing in real estate.

Also make no mistake about it, you CANNOT compare investing in real estate to bonds. In bonds the capital invested is static though the initial returns is higher but if you have your capital the value of your property will be increasing , so investing in real estate is better on the long term , as it is a hedge against inflation.

My experience is that in about 7 to 10 years, the rent will increase to cover the mortgage repayment... at least in Nairobi.

Still; you are right, one must think carefully about using mortgage to invest in rental property. It makes more sense when thinking about home buying. In that case, you can always knock off the rent you'd be paying. But in most cases, the mortgage on the house you are renting comes to about double the rent you are paying today....
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
fantony
#9 Posted : Monday, April 04, 2011 5:46:21 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/6/2006
Posts: 276
if she knew that most people have to subsidise a mortgage payment after getting rent from their pockets we would be in bigger problems...

can i tell the buru buru story again?


Renegade
#10 Posted : Monday, April 04, 2011 8:11:10 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/18/2009
Posts: 118
Young, you are indeed right, although there are exceptions e.g. financing real estate development for sale.

On the other hand bond returns will be static if you hold the bond to maturity. But one can trade the bond and make a capital gain (loss)just as you can sell the property.

young wrote:
The bottom line is one has to do a rethink of investing in real estate as a retailer by mortgage financing .

It does not pay because the rental income is always far lower than the monthly mortgage payment as the property prices appreciates faster than the rental income.

Besides the interest rate for mortgage is very high. Most cases for a mortgage loan of 5 Million ksh an investor is likely to pay back 12 Million Ksh or more over 15 years.

I do not subscribe to mortgage as a way of investing in real estate.

Also make no mistake about it, you CANNOT compare investing in real estate to bonds. In bonds the capital invested is static though the initial returns is higher but if you have your capital the value of your property will be increasing , so investing in real estate is better on the long term , as it is a hedge against inflation.

Seles83
#11 Posted : Tuesday, April 05, 2011 2:12:09 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 288
Location: OZ
2012 wrote:
Seles83 wrote:
What happened to Denis Prit appartment, no tenant or the guy bought it off the plan..


At that time they were doing final touches which were deterring tenants from taking up the apartments and that area has quite a number of empty apartments competing. Also, most of them were unwilling to pay 65k and were offering 60k.


Thanks for info..i am evaluating between acquiring another appartment is up market area..or another middle income area apartment..Just getting concern with high vacancy rate..


More monies, more problems...
Seles83
#12 Posted : Tuesday, April 05, 2011 2:14:16 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 288
Location: OZ
young wrote:
The bottom line is one has to do a rethink of investing in real estate as a retailer by mortgage financing .

It does not pay because the rental income is always far lower than the monthly mortgage payment as the property prices appreciates faster than the rental income.

Besides the interest rate for mortgage is very high. Most cases for a mortgage loan of 5 Million ksh an investor is likely to pay back 12 Million Ksh or more over 15 years.

I do not subscribe to mortgage as a way of investing in real estate.

Also make no mistake about it, you CANNOT compare investing in real estate to bonds. In bonds the capital invested is static though the initial returns is higher but if you have your capital the value of your property will be increasing , so investing in real estate is better on the long term , as it is a hedge against inflation.


I totally agree with you there...to make it in Real Estate..Good debt plays a major role..thats why i am up for responsible lending..
More monies, more problems...
Afroknight
#13 Posted : Tuesday, April 05, 2011 7:48:07 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 3/28/2011
Posts: 17
Location: Nairobi
Most people gather information before investing and I am persuaded your people did so.


I was advised by a reknown finacial advisor that a mortgage for the first home you build is interest free!!!!!. Thats true. Keep the records of your interest payment then claim it from KRA at the end of the year.
I do not know how many people have tried this or whether it still works.I sure would like to know somebody who has tried.

This means that if you borrow 5m, you might repay 12m at the end of 20yrs, but again you ultimately repay only the 5m borrowed ( minus a few hidden charges), the rest shall be repaid by KRA. No loss since that is all your money.



Above all alse, Guard thine heart with all diligence, because from it are issues of life... Prov4:23. Email: afroknight@ymail.com or domainagencies@yahoo.com
youcan'tstopusnow
#14 Posted : Tuesday, April 05, 2011 7:59:26 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
Afroknight wrote:
Most people gather information before investing and I am persuaded your people did so.


I was advised by a reknown finacial advisor that a mortgage for the first home you build is interest free!!!!!. Thats true. Keep the records of your interest payment then claim it from KRA at the end of the year.
I do not know how many people have tried this or whether it still works.I sure would like to know somebody who has tried.

This means that if you borrow 5m, you might repay 12m at the end of 20yrs, but again you ultimately repay only the 5m borrowed ( minus a few hidden charges), the rest shall be repaid by KRA. No loss since that is all your money.




Can someone confirm or refute this?
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
For Sport
#15 Posted : Tuesday, April 05, 2011 8:36:02 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/23/2010
Posts: 1,229
youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
Afroknight wrote:
Most people gather information before investing and I am persuaded your people did so.


I was advised by a reknown finacial advisor that a mortgage for the first home you build is interest free!!!!!. Thats true. Keep the records of your interest payment then claim it from KRA at the end of the year.
I do not know how many people have tried this or whether it still works.I sure would like to know somebody who has tried.

This means that if you borrow 5m, you might repay 12m at the end of 20yrs, but again you ultimately repay only the 5m borrowed ( minus a few hidden charges), the rest shall be repaid by KRA. No loss since that is all your money.




Can someone confirm or refute this?


See here: (Gordon Gekko & erifloss). http://www.wazua.com/for...spx?g=posts&t=11424
I'm certain the position hasnt changed.

muganda
#16 Posted : Tuesday, April 05, 2011 8:44:08 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,905
So interesting the article and comments - true wealth of knowledge. The writer may be on to something:

Logic:
But if as the nature of the scorpion, an investor in property does not sell; capital appreciation does not come in and hence the argument for 'hedge against inflation'

At a certain level though, writer disparages argument of 'rental income', often cited as key attraction for property investment versus other asset classes.


@Afroknight, correction:
2007 PAYE guide http://www.revenue.go.ke...df/PAYEGUIDE11-1-07.pdf stipulates Home Ownership Savings Plan allowing for
-up to KShs 4,000 funds deduction per month if house payment via employee payslip.
-up to KShs 12,500 interest deduction per month for owner occupier.
Seles83
#17 Posted : Wednesday, April 06, 2011 3:07:17 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 288
Location: OZ
One thing i find a little bit intriguing, government always encourages people to be in debt. Tax relief for those in debt and really hammered for making money.. "Read dividends, interest income....etc". Good for us we dont have capital gain taxes...

Take Advantage of the situation...
More monies, more problems...
jamplu
#18 Posted : Monday, October 17, 2011 8:21:32 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/25/2010
Posts: 939
Location: Nai

i came across this in the business daily!!
are we obsessed or possessed Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

http://www.businessdaily...90/-/9xr595/-/index.html
jesski
#19 Posted : Monday, October 17, 2011 9:10:07 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 9/14/2011
Posts: 23
Location: Kenya
Its normal i think

God can be realized through all paths. All religions are true. The important thing is to reach the roof. You can reach it by stone stairs or by wooden stairs or by bamboo steps or by a rope. You can also climb up by a bamboo pole.
Cde Monomotapa
#20 Posted : Monday, October 17, 2011 9:14:58 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
This mentality is what is going to make us super, super rich via KCB S&L. Roar!! Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
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