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Is God for real or a fraud!!
vky
#1 Posted : Thursday, August 12, 2010 4:14:21 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/17/2010
Posts: 572
stumbled on some interesting stuff check it out
http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins.htm
'One headache for famous medieval holy people was that someone might murder you to acquire your body parts for the relics trade'
My 2 cents
#2 Posted : Friday, August 13, 2010 10:37:45 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/2/2010
Posts: 1,066
My take that we can never claim to know for sure. So My personal view is that I can never know if he exists or if he does not exist. I simply admit to not knowing...
atiriri
#3 Posted : Friday, August 13, 2010 10:39:55 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/7/2009
Posts: 320
Location: nairobi
Where is your faith?
Intelligentsia
#4 Posted : Friday, August 13, 2010 10:51:02 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
Even if am in doubt, I would rather live my life like He exists than live like He doesn't exist only to discover too late that He actually exists
Surealligator
#5 Posted : Friday, August 13, 2010 11:02:55 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 709
Location: Velayat-e Faryab
It has been proven over and over again that God does exist, even if it is in man's head. That which you attribute to existence of the universe as we know it today is God. However, those who miss the bigger picture go for gods made by man.

I've not read the article linked above but a good question to ask is, who created the other, Man or God.

Be very careful when dealing with matters God. He can strike you dead at the spar of the moment. On the other hand, God can fend for himself, he does not need mortals like you and me to prove that he exists or not, leave alone defending him.
Go overdrive in purchasing the goods when there's blood on the streets, expecially if the blood is your own
kenmac
#6 Posted : Friday, August 13, 2010 11:26:39 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 1,793
Its better to live like there is a God and die to find He didn't exist, than to live like there is no God and die to find He existed all along.
......Ecclesiastes
selah
#7 Posted : Friday, August 13, 2010 11:30:02 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/13/2009
Posts: 1,950
Location: in kenya
Asking such a question is like asking if wind exist or is it a fraud.

We all cant see the wind but we feel its effects.So using the same analogy we can say we feel the existence of a supernatural being (God)Who is able to decipher all mysteries.
'......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
Seeders
#8 Posted : Friday, August 13, 2010 11:53:54 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 234
Location: Nairobi
take a position and stick with it...to the bitter or pleasant end.
kingfisher
#9 Posted : Friday, August 13, 2010 12:24:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/9/2008
Posts: 2,824
what kind of answer do you expect????

that could be what you believe.
When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
Intelligentsia
#10 Posted : Friday, August 13, 2010 12:40:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
kingfisher wrote:
what kind of answer do you expect????

that could be what you believe.


Very true, very brief. very eloquent.Applause
@kenmac, tru dat. Applause
muganda
#11 Posted : Friday, August 13, 2010 12:45:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,905
I have met some agnostics, but few atheists. Allow me to share some words from Leo Tolstoy - A calendar of wisdom.


Two kinds of people know God: first people with humble hearts (it does not matter whether they are clever or stupid); second, really clever people. Only those who are proud and intellectually mediocre do not know God. -after Pascal

It is surprising that I could not see a very simple truth: behind and above this world and our lives there is someone who knows why this world exists and why we exist in it. We are like bubbles in boiling water which appear, surface, burst and disappear-Tolstoy

God exists because we exist. You can call it any other name, but there is no doubt that the superior life which created us exists-Mazzini

Moses said to God, 'Where can I find you?' God said, 'If you are looking for me, you have already found me.'



Fundaah
#12 Posted : Friday, August 13, 2010 12:46:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
Psalm 14 The Fool Says, There Is No God
To the choirmaster. Of David.
14:1 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds,
there is none who does good.

Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
2012
#13 Posted : Friday, August 13, 2010 1:00:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
There's no doubt in my mind that he exists because I've seen his work and I have seen my prayers answered in ways I cannot explain.

BBI will solve it
:)
bepari
#14 Posted : Friday, August 13, 2010 1:02:27 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/6/2009
Posts: 108
Location: nairobi
shauri yako,am hedging my bets.
Mark 9:24-'Oh Lord,heal my unbelief'.
if you aint livin on the edge,you are taking too much space....
jaribu
#15 Posted : Friday, August 13, 2010 1:02:54 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/23/2007
Posts: 441
“I believe in the sun, even when it's not shining. I believe in love, even when I feel it not. I believe in God, even when he is silent.”-- - - - Famous Irish Saying Quote.

>>>>>Should I say more?
Ja-Kom
#16 Posted : Friday, August 13, 2010 1:08:45 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/28/2009
Posts: 290
@Muganda,quite thought provoking quotes........
God’s existence cannot be proved or disproved. You might have issues with biblical arguments for God’s existence, because its about God, whose existence you question, but there are logical arguments.
First, there is the ontological argument. The most popular form of the ontological argument uses the concept of God to prove God’s existence. It begins with the definition of God as “a being than which no greater can be conceived.” It is then argued that to exist is greater than to not exist, and therefore the greatest conceivable being must exist. If God did not exist, then God would not be the greatest conceivable being, and that would contradict the very definition of God.

A second argument is the teleological argument. The teleological argument states that since the universe displays such an amazing design, there must have been a divine Designer. For example, if the Earth were significantly closer or farther away from the sun, it would not be capable of supporting much of the life it currently does. If the elements in our atmosphere were even a few percentage points different, nearly every living thing on earth would die.

A third argument for God’s existence is called the cosmological argument. Every effect must have a cause. This universe and everything in it is an effect. There must be something that caused everything to come into existence. Ultimately, there must be something “un-caused” in order to cause everything else to come into existence. That “un-caused” cause is God.

A fourth argument is the moral argument. Every culture throughout history has had some form of law. Everyone has a sense of right and wrong. Murder, lying, stealing, and immorality are almost universally rejected. Where did this sense of right and wrong come from if not from a holy God?

If God so desired, He could simply appear and prove to the whole world that He exists. But if He did that, there would be no need for faith. “Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed’” (John 20:29).
We can deny this knowledge intellectually, but God’s presence in us and all around us is still obvious. Despite this, the Bible warns that some will still deny God’s existence: “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God’” (Psalm 14:1). Since the vast majority of people throughout history, in all cultures, in all civilizations, and on all continents believe in the existence of some kind of God, there must be something (or someone) causing this belief. The very fact that some attempt so aggressively to disprove His existence is in fact an argument for His existence.

How do we know God exists? As Christians, we know God exists because we speak to Him every day. We do not audibly hear Him speaking to us, but we sense His presence, we feel His leading, we know His love, we desire His grace. Things have occurred in our lives that have no possible explanation other than God. God has so miraculously saved us and changed our lives that we cannot help but acknowledge and praise His existence. None of these arguments can persuade anyone who refuses to acknowledge what is already obvious. In the end, God’s existence must be accepted by faith as @ atiriri so aptly asked where your faith is…. (Hebrews 11:6). Faith in God is not a blind leap into the dark; it is safe step into a well-lit room where the vast majority of people are already standing.
As @Seeders says,take a position and stick with it to the bitter or sweet end,but which is less risky..believing there is no God but later find out that He is indeed there or believing He exists only to find out He dint all along? I would gladly accept He exists…..





For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. Romans 5:19
kadonye
#17 Posted : Friday, August 13, 2010 1:10:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
Surealligator wrote:

Be very careful when dealing with matters God. He can strike you dead at the spar of the moment. On the other hand, God can fend for himself, he does not need mortals like you and me to prove that he exists or not, leave alone defending him.

Applause Applause Applause Applause

Check out Romans 1:20

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
My 2 cents
#18 Posted : Friday, August 13, 2010 1:29:25 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/2/2010
Posts: 1,066
@kenmac's and @intelligentsia positions are what is referred to as 'Pascals wager'. i.e. it is better to believe in God just in case their is one.

My thought is that as humans we have great limitations. We can only know so much. Our own world, indeed our entire galaxy is just but a very very very very minute dot in the intergalactic space. Our sun (which incidentlly will burn out 5 billion years) for instance is soooooooooooooooooooooo insignificant when compared to other stars in the universe.

What can we mere human beings know? Do we think for example that we are so special that despite the ENORMOUS universe we assume we are the only ones that exist? Other galaxies may have other planets with other life forms. Who knows? We cannot prove it either because we cannot design spacecraft that can take us that far. To reach some other galaxies would require billions and billions of light years in travel. Yet we only live for 80 - 100 normal years; let alone light years.

What can we possibly know of a grand, super being; given our limitations as human beings?
Pastor M
#19 Posted : Friday, August 13, 2010 1:50:44 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/18/2009
Posts: 303
Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.

I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.

proof of GodI didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn't escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..." It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them.

I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England."

Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.

Copy and Paste from http://www.everystudent.com/index.html
kadonye
#20 Posted : Friday, August 13, 2010 1:59:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
Jakom, you are a theolologian?Nice discussion.

I hope no wazuan quotes your entire post coz it'll fill up an entire page and make scrolling harder!
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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