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clergy in a fix
sky5
#51 Posted : Thursday, August 05, 2010 3:00:27 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/7/2010
Posts: 282
Location: Nairobi
As a nation, we should thank the Church for highlighting issues in the draft. If the Church had remained silent, we would be having an almost free-for-all-permissive constitution.

The fact that the 'YES' carried the day does not mean that God approved the draft or rejected the clergy! Even if 'NO' won, it won't have meant that God had approved the draft constitution.

What it means is that the choice of the majority carried the day. As prophet Samuel told the Israelists, their choice had consequences.

For information, the Church was not entirely rejecting the draft, but asking the contentious issues be resolved before referendum. The issues can still be resolved after the referendum if their is political will. So no one lost!
blaqlegend
#52 Posted : Thursday, August 05, 2010 3:05:29 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 8/5/2010
Posts: 20
Location: Nairobi
The fact that some church leaders lied blatantly about certain provisions especially about Gay unions etc while receiving fuel for their guzzlers from abroad speaks volumes about the 'Kenyan church'
i will judge for once...really smelt the Pharisees in town...the more things change the more they remain the same.
Some were so intolerant of opposing views(read Yes supporters) to an extent of tagging them as devil's agents,Jesus said LOVE ONE ANOTHER!!
JWK
#53 Posted : Thursday, August 05, 2010 3:07:32 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/7/2009
Posts: 30
boy or boy....
@Seeder
'question1-in other words, they should tell you why they vehemently oppose the draft but end by suggesting you vote yes? not sure how 'literate' that is...'
[No! Didn't even get close to suggesting that! Don't know where you're reading that.[/i]

question2-when it comes to interpreting the constitution, is every position either absolute truth or absolute lie?
You and I know that this is not the case or? Did I seuggest that? Fill me in pls......

question3-and speaking of literacy, you mean there are people who thought the church was going with them to the ballot box? i thought the fact that voting would be secret ballot was common knowledge (read 'common sense')?
[i] Come of it man! Literacy and the church, I don't think I mixed that up or? When the church tells people to reject the draft because it disagrees with a few issues in it,to me thats trying to influence people's decision making in short taking people to the barrot box, isn't it to you?
chikita
#54 Posted : Thursday, August 05, 2010 3:23:00 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 2/18/2010
Posts: 94
Location: Nairobi
Let's face it,the clergy lied outrightly in regards to abortion. We all know abortion is illegal in Kenya as always has been.
And as for Kadhis courts, with or without the new constitution they remain.
What I find myself asking is, did the church have something to hide? Because those 2 are/ were not issues at all.
@PastorM, maybe your intentions were noble, but the same cannot be said of some other church leaders.Cheering Mps on to 'get saved' just so as to gain support for the draft, that for me was blasphemy! And remember you can't wine , drink and play with a pig without getting dirty yourself!
Pastor M
#55 Posted : Thursday, August 05, 2010 3:33:41 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/18/2009
Posts: 303
Intelligentsia wrote:
kadonye wrote:


I believe they were sincere...

some of the clergy were sincere - sincerely wrong in the way they interpreted some clauses esp on abortion.


Kindly lets not say that church interpreted the laws wrongly (ofcourse there were some individuals who were extreme in both Yes and NO like I had someone telling youths that Police will be asking for their permission to arrest them if they pass the Katiba Laughing out loudly but the church was very sincere )but lets us wait and see,Lets wait and see how things will happen in the ground lets see how abortions will be carried out will it safe mothers or will there be unjust killings of the unborn,lets wait and see whether two men will not appear at AG's office asking for marriage cert and if not they go to court and maybe win,lets wait and see how the Kadhi courts will affect you as a christian,will it drag sheria laws into our country,let wait and see whether international treaties ratified by Kenya becomes part of law of Kenya.Maybe the Church was wrong maybe it was right but time will tell as already kenyans have decided...I will personally oppose any amendiment of the New katiba.
Brewer
#56 Posted : Thursday, August 05, 2010 3:40:21 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/24/2008
Posts: 238
Wendz wrote:
......Let me ask a very humble question. The OLD constitution (or is it still current?) states clearly that abortion is ILLEGAL. We all know that there are thousands of women dying due to procurement of abortion every year in this country. What has the church done so far to address this problem? Is it just to have it put on constitution? why havent we heard any person cry out to have laws implemented to curb this vice that has entrenched in our daughters' lives for so long? Ok. we can put it in the constitution as it was earlier, but what did the church do to compel the law makers or the government to ensure that this is followed. And what did it intend to do differently this time?

Let it be known to everyone that i do not support abortion whatsoever.


@ Wendz, serious questions you raise there. I refrain from blaming. With the referendum behind us and having learnt from it, I think the solution is for the church,like the catholic church to which you said you belong, and its members having a conversation on the church doctrine on abortion and the means and ways of matching the doctrine with the reality on the ground and to be proud to be agents of positive social change. The church has done it before in areas of education and health, why not this one?
kadonye
#57 Posted : Thursday, August 05, 2010 3:40:48 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
Can any one church basher here give us the LIES the church told versus the TRUTH based on quotations from the document?Why are you taking us back to the campaign period?

Despite voting YES, i think the church had serious issues with the draft and they should not be castigated for their stand.

I will be ready to support church leaders collecting signatures for any amendment that makes sense(kadhi courts for instance is not an issue to me)
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
sky5
#58 Posted : Thursday, August 05, 2010 3:46:31 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/7/2010
Posts: 282
Location: Nairobi
@Pastor M. Agreed.

Let's wait. Only time will tell. I hope it will never come a time when we shall regret that 'The Church warned us' and we ignored it.
Pastor M
#59 Posted : Thursday, August 05, 2010 3:54:48 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/18/2009
Posts: 303
@sky5 I also hope so...I hope the church and her lawyers were lying.....I pray my great grandchildrean (if they will not be aborted)will not accuse me....but time will tell...Lets pray and Build our nation Its my only country where my family lives and my whole clan lives...Its my beloved nation Kenya.
sky5
#60 Posted : Thursday, August 05, 2010 4:01:54 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/7/2010
Posts: 282
Location: Nairobi
@Pastor M. I also pray that as people, we can move together and build a better kenya for the present and future generations.
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