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clergy in a fix
JWK
#41 Posted : Thursday, August 05, 2010 1:32:43 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/7/2009
Posts: 30
@Pastor M
As much as we should be worried about erosion of morals (which is unfortunately on the rise and would have continued with or without the katiba process), most of us observe that the church went to far. To an extent of twisting facts and fabricating lies to influence the congregation to vote NO. I agree the church has a moral obligation and every right to stand its position and teach its people. What I fully disagree with, is the extent to which part of the church intruded and tried to influence individuals decision making. Thats brainwashing!
The church failed us big time here by behaving like politicians who sometimes take advantage of iliterate and semi-iliterate folks in the country. Decision making should have been left to individuals after teaching them the TRUTH and making sure that they understood.
I am convinced like many have said here that there are so many true christians who voted YES.
@ All -My take; this victory is a big sign of improvement in literacy in Kenya which is fundamental in development because of its influence in politics and governance. Majority of people read,understood the document and made THEIR OWN DECISION and I hope this is the new trend in especially in choosing our leaders.
@ Religious leaders – we need you, we need the church but you have no right over our freedom in decision making and not at the expense of our freedom of choice.Period!!!!
Seeders
#42 Posted : Thursday, August 05, 2010 1:50:32 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 234
Location: Nairobi
look at the bold sections of your post and you might just see the irony of your statements.


JWK wrote:
@Pastor M
As much as we should be worried about erosion of morals (which is unfortunately on the rise and would have continued with or without the katiba process), most of us observe that the church went to far. To an extent of twisting facts and fabricating lies to influence the congregation to vote NO. I agree the church has a moral obligation and every right to stand its position and teach its people. What I fully disagree with, is the extent to which part of the church intruded and tried to influence individuals decision making. Thats brainwashing!
The church failed us big time here by behaving like politicians who sometimes take advantage of iliterate and semi-iliterate folks in the country. Decision making should have been left to individuals after teaching them the TRUTH and making sure that they understood.
I am convinced like many have said here that there are so many true christians who voted YES.
@ All -My take; this victory is a big sign of improvement in literacy in Kenya which is fundamental in development because of its influence in politics and governance. Majority of people read,understood the document and made THEIR OWN DECISION and I hope this is the new trend in especially in choosing our leaders.
@ Religious leaders – we need you, we need the church but you have no right over our freedom in decision making and not at the expense of our freedom of choice.Period!!!!

vinii
#43 Posted : Thursday, August 05, 2010 2:02:59 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/14/2009
Posts: 2,057
The church should now organize a major Uhuru Park rally to thank God for a peacefull referendum and reconcille Kenyans so that we can all celebrate and participate in the Rebirth of a new country.

I went against the counsel of my good bishop Njue by voting YES - its my hope and believe that come sunday he will preach love to all.
If you are an eagle don't hang around with chickens; chickens don't fly....
Brewer
#44 Posted : Thursday, August 05, 2010 2:20:15 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/24/2008
Posts: 238
It is true what @ Masukuma said that we will be at the pews on Sunday with the same clergy.

What one has with the clergy is a relationship in which, ideally, God should be at the centre. I believe this referendum has generally challenged that entire relationship. It is not the clergy only who have been affected.
JWK
#45 Posted : Thursday, August 05, 2010 2:24:56 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/7/2009
Posts: 30
@ Seeders

Dont get me wrong; by suggesting that the church has a right to stand its position, I mean the church had a right to criticize the draft and highlight the issues that were of concern to them and warn the congregation on such issues.
However in my opinion, the church had no right to take people to the barrot box and suggest that they vote no. The church shouldn’t have lied to its people about the constitution in a bid to influence their choice. Thats what I mean.The church should have separated itself from politicians.
It all depends on how you want to look at it and what you want to see.
Intelligentsia
#46 Posted : Thursday, August 05, 2010 2:25:46 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
kadonye wrote:


I believe they were sincere...

some of the clergy were sincere - sincerely wrong in the way they interpreted some clauses esp on abortion.
extrablessed
#47 Posted : Thursday, August 05, 2010 2:32:10 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/28/2007
Posts: 290
Location: Nairobi
...We know the clergy was right on issues of Islam, Kadhi courts, clause on foreign laws and abortion!!! The issues on land was just political...
the sage
#48 Posted : Thursday, August 05, 2010 2:39:58 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/20/2008
Posts: 367
@Extrablessed did you watch the debates between the Bishops and lawyers, it was clear that they were misleading people and what is really sad is that they are in a position of influence and they abuse it.
Wendz
#49 Posted : Thursday, August 05, 2010 2:42:06 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
extrablessed wrote:
We know the clergy was right on issues of Islam, Kadhi courts and abortion!!!


@extrablessed

Na si sasa unatuchanganyisha? Was Islam ever a contentious issue?

Let me ask a very humble question. The OLD constitution (or is it still current?) states clearly that abortion is ILLEGAL. We all know that there are thousands of women dying due to procurement of abortion every year in this country. What has the church done so far to address this problem? Is it just to have it put on constitution? why havent we heard any person cry out to have laws implemented to curb this vice that has entrenched in our daughters' lives for so long? Ok. we can put it in the constitution as it was earlier, but what did the church do to compel the law makers or the government to ensure that this is followed. And what did it intend to do differently this time?

Let it be known to everyone that i do not support abortion whatsoever.
Seeders
#50 Posted : Thursday, August 05, 2010 2:44:54 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 234
Location: Nairobi
question1-in other words, they should tell you why they vehemently oppose the draft but end by suggesting you vote yes? not sure how 'literate' that is...

question2-when it comes to interpreting the constitution, is every position either absolute truth or absolute lie?

question3-and speaking of literacy, you mean there are people who thought the church was going with them to the ballot box? i thought the fact that voting would be secret ballot was common knowledge (read 'common sense')?

JWK wrote:
@ Seeders

Dont get me wrong; by suggesting that the church has a right to stand its position, I mean the church had a right to criticize the draft and highlight the issues that were of concern to them and warn the congregation on such issues.
However in my opinion, the church had no right to take people to the barrot box and suggest that they vote no.
The church shouldn’t have lied to its people about the constitution in a bid to influence their choice. Thats what I mean.The church should have separated itself from politicians. It all depends on how you want to look at it and what you want to see.

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